Cover 2, MLB and the Weakest Link

[KCJohnny]

The Cover 2/Tampa 2 defense requires agile, speedy LB play to cover the area from the secondary to the safeties. Who is the weak link?

Cover 2

In traditional Cover 2 schemes the free safety (FS) and strong safety (SS) have deep responsibilities, each guarding half of the field. The NFL's Kansas City Chiefs, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Buffalo Bills, Indianapolis Colts, Chicago Bears, and Detroit Lions run a variant of this defense called the Tampa 2.

Cover 2 can be run from any seven-man defensive fronts such as the 3-4 and the 4-3. (It is difficult to implement Cover 2 from an eight-in-the-box front, because the strong safety or someone replacing him is usually the eighth man.) Various "underneath" coverage played by cornerbacks and linebackers may also be implemented. For example, Cover 2 Man means 2 safeties have deep responsibility while the cornerbacks and linebackers follow their offensive assignment in one-on-one coverage. The NFL's San Diego Chargers inherited a base Cover 2 Man 3-4 from Wade Phillips. Cover 2 can also be paired with underneath zone schemes: Cover 2 Zone refers to 2 safeties with deep responsibility but now the CBs and LBs drop back into specific coverage zones where they defend passes only in their assigned area.

Teams that play Cover 2 shells usually subscribe to the "bend-but-don't-break" philosophy, preferring to keep offensive players in front of them for short gains while limiting long passes. This is in stark contrast to a more aggressive Cover 1 type scheme which leaves the offensive team's wide receivers in single man-to-man coverage with only one deep helper. By splitting the deep field between two defenders, the defense can drastically reduce the number of long gains.

The main weakness of the Cover 2 shell occurs in the middle of the field between the safeties. The safeties attempt to gain width upon the snap of the ball to cover any long passes to quick wide receivers down the sideline. This movement creates a natural hole between the safeties that can be attacked. By sending a receiver (usually a tight end) into the hole, the offense forces the safety to make a decision: play the vulnerable hole in the middle of the field or help out on the wide receiver. The quarterback reads the safety's decision and decides on the best matchup (i.e. which mismatch is better: TE vs S or WR vs CB).

So far this year, only the Lions and Saints are giving up more YPC than us. Our run defense is seriously broken. While our pass D is only allowing 133.5 YPG, our rush D is folding to the tune of 213 YPG in this young 2008 season. Its stands to reason that the pass defense stats look good because teams can beat us without throwing much.

I'm an offense guy, but isn't this a Mike Backer problem? Isn't the MLB in the Cover 2 scheme supposed to be the "QB" of the scheme? Isn't the Cover 2 scheme without the right horses a high-risk defense?

Not picking on Pat Thomas, but where is the weakest link?

I have no desire to ever again in my life watch the rapacious way the Chiefs D was steamrolled by a one-dimensional losing team on the road about to fire its coach.

Help me out, people.

KCJ

[booger]

Got to be fair to Pat Thomas as well. He was switched to MLB in OTA's and mini camp. He is more of an OLB at 237 lbs. With Dorsey learning the NFL experience and Tank playing much better he still may end up being serviceable but probably not special.

More of the problem is OLB and DE. DJ needs to step up yet again and take control of this group of LB's. Yesterday we got smashed w/ off Tackle plays as our ends got blown off the ball. When D. Edwards is undersized and gimpy with the hammy, plus has poor play at DE in front of him that spells trouble. at LCB Carr played all game with Surtain being injured and struggled with run support. On that same side was Boone playing LE for Turk. Boone at DE works well on goaline and short yardage but against McFadden that's asking alot for him to chase him down on sweeps.

Tank did play another good game though. something like 8 tackles dorsey 3. when the ran up the middle they did their job. Much better with the 3rd year safetys overall as well.

D. Williams played mostly as Nickel LB and Rush end. IMO he needs to be starting on the SLB or LOLB. Edward's tank is almost on empty at 35.

If Nap Harris had any heart or passion for the game of football he would put in an effort to regaine his starting job. He is uncoachable and just cashing in his huge paycheck and it looks like that is the plan for the season since Carl refuses to acknowlege mistakes not just he but the team makes. That is the reason for this misterious knee injurie Harris had in the preseason and reappeared once the regular season started and he is now inactive.

It hurts our defense and special teams coverage units. A guy who they picked up though in Erik Walden has been a bright spot. 5 tackles on special teams so far in 2 games from a rookie just aquired on waivers 2 weeks ago. Maybe he can help out some at LB and or Rush end in the nickel.

Those 2 spots where we are hurting #'s wise OLB and DE. Also doesn't help with a DE rotation during the game as they don't really seem to trust Brian Johnston much yet either. Not making excuses for Hali but he already has the pressure of replacing allen on him now like yesterday he played all or most 65 plus snaps.

[OnTheWarpath15]

YOU are the weakest link.

Goodbye...

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by booger

Got to be fair to Pat Thomas as well. He was switched to MLB in OTA's and mini camp. He is more of an OLB at 237 lbs. With Dorsey learning the NFL experience and Tank playing much better he still may end up being serviceable but probably not special.

More of the problem is OLB and DE. DJ needs to step up yet again and take control of this group of LB's. Yesterday we got smashed w/ off Tackle plays as our ends got blown off the ball. When D. Edwards is undersized and gimpy with the hammy, plus has poor play at DE in front of him that spells trouble. at LCB Carr played all game with Surtain being injured and struggled with run support. On that same side was Boone playing LE for Turk. Boone at DE works well on goaline and short yardage but against McFadden that's asking alot for him to chase him down on sweeps.

Tank did play another good game though. something like 8 tackles dorsey 3. when the ran up the middle they did their job. Much better with the 3rd year safetys overall as well.

D. Williams played mostly as Nickel LB and Rush end. IMO he needs to be starting on the SLB or LOLB. Edward's tank is almost on empty at 35.

If Nap Harris had any heart or passion for the game of football he would put in an effort to regaine his starting job. He is uncoachable and just cashing in his huge paycheck and it looks like that is the plan for the season since Carl refuses to acknowlege mistakes not just he but the team makes. That is the reason for this misterious knee injurie Harris had in the preseason and reappeared once the regular season started and he is now inactive.

It hurts our defense and special teams coverage units. A guy who they picked up though in Erik Walden has been a bright spot. 5 tackles on special teams so far in 2 games from a rookie just aquired on waivers 2 weeks ago. Maybe he can help out some at LB and or Rush end in the nickel.

Those 2 spots where we are hurting #'s wise OLB and DE. Also doesn't help with a DE rotation during the game as they don't really seem to trust Brian Johnston much yet either. Not making excuses for Hali but he already has the pressure of replacing allen on him now like yesterday he played all or most 65 plus snaps.

Is that you, Coach Cunningham?

Wow. Thanks for sharing those meaty insights. I was noticing the same thing about Hali. He has all kinds of heart and a trendous motor, but he needs some help from the other DE/OLB positions.

Great post, booger, and that explains several things that may be going on with this defense.

[booger]

Our 53 man roster is still a problem #'s wise.
OFFENSE 26
DEFFENSE 23
SP. Teams 4

We didn't need 5 backs last week but kept battle for special teams coverage units. This week savage was inactive so maybe we can finally make a choise and cut him or sams. Haggans at WR/QB also is a KR/PR. Keeping an extra QB doesn't help but we really need to cut either Donnie and or Nap Harris(or make the SOB play to see if he can suck it up and make a difference) as well as the KR spot it will open up 2 spots for us to bring in a couple LB's or a DE and LB. We still would have to get them up to speed but nothing we can do about procrastonating now.

Shake up that damn right side of the OLINE as well. Mcintosh can be the 3rd/swing tackle either play richardson or taylor. This thing with DMac is so stubborn it's not even funny. Carl is Just pissed his prize big money FA from last season is flopping and he never admits his mistakes no matter how much it cost the team on the field.

[booger]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

Is that you, Coach Cunningham?

.

lol
If i was Cunningham I would demand to move from the press box down to the sidelines.

This LB unit that he also happens to be the position coach for along with his DC duties are having big troubles.

I like Gun's passion and fire for the game but he is the one who wanted the additional responsibilities. Right now when the D comes off the field their position coach is in the booth. Krumrie(DL) Gibbs(DB) or Herm are the ones that go over the previous series and make corrections. Those 3 also have other players and positions to look at.

I just feel very strongly that Gun needs to get his ass on the sidelines and show this group of LB's some leadership because after 2 games it's obvious they need it.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by booger

lol
If i was Cunningham I would demand to move from the press box down to the sidelines.

I just feel very strongly that Gun needs to get his ass on the sidelines and show this group of LB's some leadership because after 2 games it's obvious they need it.

I have no problem with that. Good call, booger.

[booger]

hopefully Herm would allow it. I don't see how it would hurt. DV let him do it in '04.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by booger

hopefully Herm would allow it. I don't see how it would hurt. DV let him do it in '04.

The thread starter discusses the Cover 2/Tampa 2. I would be very interested in your answers to the Qs posed at the end of the topic starter....

Personally, I don't think we have the horses to run the Cover 2. Gun had no experience with it from what i could tell about his past successful Ds. Cover 2 is Herm's thing. Part of the Dungee tree, I believe.

[booger]

True with the MLB with the deep drop. If anything though that IMO is one of Pat Thomas's strengths is his pass drops. Play action has hurt as which will open the middle if the MLB bites on the fake. Comparred though to Nap Harris who played in the last PS game against STL though...... Lets just say Harris played the pass horribly.

Weston Dacus seemed to be one of the top 5 LB's this preseason but was released and added to the PS. But in a C2 i don't think he has the footspeed to make the deep MLB drop.

We've really played much more man 2 man. Flowers and Carr were drafted for their abilities to play both man and zone. With the loss of Jared and the poor pass rush we have been blitzing more than just the 4 man rush in cover2.

Our biggest problem is stopping the run and giving up to much yardage on 1st down. It makes no difference what so ever on zone or man press if we don't stop the run. I think we gave up what 130 against NE? not sure exactly but 300 given up yesterday and they only had less than 60 yrds passing. 47 carries for 300 yards yesterday. only 19 pass attempted IIRC.

We've played alot of Nickel 4DL 2LB 5DB and some Big Saftey packages with pollard sliding down in the box, and McGraw or Morgan deep with page too. Really had to do that with Edwards dinged with the hammy and D. Williams with a cast on his hand and filling in at rush LB to give the DE's a breather.

Gun played alot of C2 in '95. Alot. MLB Tracy Simien had a career high 3 int's playing in their C2 base defense. That was James Hasty's first year with the club. Obviously once learning his man press skills they changed. That's why the 97 team was so dominant. Big physical press CB's and blitzing/killer pass rush.

Once he came back Gun used mostly zones and C2 quite a bit until this year with the addition of the rooks.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by booger

True with the MLB with the deep drop. If anything though that IMO is one of Pat Thomas's strengths is his pass drops. Play action has hurt as which will open the middle if the MLB bites on the fake. Comparred though to Nap Harris who played in the last PS game against STL though...... Lets just say Harris played the pass horribly.

Weston Dacus seemed to be one of the top 5 LB's this preseason but was released and added to the PS. But in a C2 i don't think he has the footspeed to make the deep MLB drop.

We've really played much more man 2 man. Flowers and Carr were drafted for their abilities to play both man and zone. With the loss of Jared and the poor pass rush we have been blitzing more than just the 4 man rush in cover2.

Our biggest problem is stopping the run and giving up to much yardage on 1st down. It makes no difference what so ever on zone or man press if we don't stop the run. I think we gave up what 130 against NE? not sure exactly but 300 given up yesterday and they only had less than 60 yrds passing. 47 carries for 300 yards yesterday. only 19 pass attempted IIRC.

We've played alot of Nickel 4DL 2LB 5DB and some Big Saftey packages with pollard sliding down in the box, and McGraw or Morgan deep with page too. Really had to do that with Edwards dinged with the hammy and D. Williams with a cast on his hand and filling in at rush LB to give the DE's a breather.

Gun played alot of C2 in '95. Alot. MLB Tracy Simien had a career high 3 int's playing in their C2 base defense. That was James Hasty's first year with the club. Obviously once learning his man press skills they changed. That's why the 97 team was so dominant. Big physical press CB's and blitzing/killer pass rush.

Once he came back Gun used mostly zones and C2 quite a bit until this year with the addition of the rooks.

Oakland was hardly a threat to make a big play in the passing game. What did you see as our exposed weakness in run defense? And how much is the scheme a factor? The Chiefs D wasn't all that great against the rush last year either, and now we are 30th in the NFL in YPC, 32nd in yards allowed.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

Oakland was hardly a threat to make a big play in the passing game. What did you see as our exposed weakness in run defense? And how much is the scheme a factor? The Chiefs D wasn't all that great against the rush last year either, and now we are 30th in the NFL in YPC, 32nd in yards allowed.

but, folks love where Herm is taking this team

[booger]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

Oakland was hardly a threat to make a big play in the passing game. What did you see as our exposed weakness in run defense? And how much is the scheme a factor? The Chiefs D wasn't all that great against the rush last year either, and now we are 30th in the NFL in YPC, 32nd in yards allowed.

Last year our problem was Tank and Turk not playing(most of it coaching descisions, not like this year letting them learn on the go) enough snaps to give Edwards and Boone needed rest. The vets played too man snaps. Plus last year was the same basically at LB with Harris at MLB and key Fox when Donnie was hurt. But the DE rotation was better with Allen and Jimmy Wilkerson along with Hali. This year Turk could have been expected to play the Jimmy W. role but couldn't because we had to start him. He is the second best DE we got. Rotation.

Plus the same old problems as last year. Can't get off the field on 3rd down after too many avg. yd. a play on 1st. And an offense with way too many 3 and outs that leads to the D being on the field too much and wearing down in the second half.

Yesterday was Players over Scheme IMO. Herm this past week in Q/A's tried to keep warning that they could really run the ball. Also to tried and warn against us overlooking(as if we should overlook anyone) them since we played NE so tough.

Turk getting hurt was big. I don't remember Johnston playing at DE even though he was active, i could be wrong though. Our DE's and OLB's got embarrassed big time. Hali I imagine was very excited to be going against backup LT Mario Henderson. Hali has felt the pressure to rush the passer and get sacks. Even had a recent article in the star all about it. So I can see him not focusing on the run under those circumstances even though Film study, coaching, and the situation should have spelled out in the game plan to expect them to try to pound the rock. Basically a rookie QB at Arrowhead.....they now the history......expect them to run.

DJ, i have no idea other than I heard his named called once. I'm sorry to say but if i'm being unbiased and looking at just play and not who the player is Donnie Edwards should be cut if not retire.

Flowers at RCB has been a very good run support cb in college and last week. I didn't focus on him this week. If he did struggle like Carr did it's hard to get mad about a rookie or 2 having a bad game.

Once they got to the second level Fargas, McFadden, and Bush aren't that easy to bring down. Plus Griffith is a good FB and they did adapt the zone block bronco scheme up front.

They watched film and saw our stegth up front was our DT's. So they ran all over us and thrashed our DE's and OLB.

Scheme? I don't know, only coaches get the wide angle whole field shots from the endzone as far as gap control. But even going back to last year misses assignments and gaps have been the problems of big running plays.

So no, i don't see it as a scheme problem.

We have 23 defensive players. Some rookies and youngsters that have to learn. And a few Vets who really don't have their skills they once had.

Our strenth is our secondary even though young and our DT's.

[DaKCMan AP]

Maualuga or Spikes, please.

[KCJohnny]

So if I am hearing you correctly, our perimeter control was suspect and our DE play that sought to exploit Henderson's inexperience was a non-factor due to Oakland attempting just 17 passes (at least 10 of which were totally unneccessary). The contain on the off tackles plays broke down and our DBs were making most of the stops on rushing plays.

Not sure about cutting Donnie, tho I see where you are coming from. I believe a healthy Edwards still is an NFL starter on most teams and that the kids need him on the field and in the huddle.

I still haven't heard what you think about our MLB. Granted Thomas is a bit light at 237 (but fast) and DJ should step up on the perimeter control but overall, do we have the talent to run the C2 effectively?