Saunders-haters: Why NOT Al?

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 10:36 AM

Why rebuild, when you can reload? Come on, hear me out on this....

I've read here and elsewhere, it's because CP doesn't "like" Saunders; or he has different politics than the rest of the FO. I've read that he's pissed off LJ; and that LJ is CP's boy. I've read Al gets too "cute" with his play calling. I've read he's already been a HC, and failed. While there may be some element of truth to each of those charges....as major reasons to not consider hiring Saunders, I just don't buy any of it.

This is football. While the team has suffered as a result of DV's neglect of the defense IMO, Al has done his job extremely well. Saunders has been a big part of some of the most consistently successful offenses in the history of the league. The Chief's offense the last five years has been a joy to watch--90% of the time. If Roaf comes back, filling Shields spot is the only significant task left to do on that side of the ball. Yes, developing a young tackle or two, finding a QBOTF, converting Wilson from TE to FB to replace TRich (or something like that-heh), and signing a quality back up for LJ, are all we would really need to do for the next two or three years on Offense. Very "doable" in my mind.

Now, having said that......something dramatic has to be done on the Defensive side of the ball. However, who's to say that with Saunders taking over, that he and CP won't be able to cherry-pick the coaches that are worth keeping, while at the same time hiring new coaches in key areas.....

Along with a couple of key additions to the defensive personnel, in the draft and in FA (provided we can clear the cap room) and I think we will have just reloaded, instead of rebuilding.

Thoughts, comments, or reactions?

Hoover · 12-20-2005, 10:38 AM

I really Struggle with this question.

I worry that nothing will change, can he bring the right attitude? I'm not sure. And then I wonder what will happen once Trent, Roaf and Shields hang em up?

I want a HC I can get excited about.

B_Ambuehl · 12-20-2005, 10:40 AM

Because that type of reasoning requires the use of logic, something that few people seem to be able to do.

**Iowanian** · 12-20-2005, 10:40 AM

When is the last time you saw Al Saunders make good in game adjustments?

htismaqe · 12-20-2005, 10:43 AM

Not wanting Al for head coach ≠ hating Al

I don't want Al to be the next HC because I believe it would be a continuation of what we have now and I don't like what we have now.

Start fresh.

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

I really Struggle with this question.

I worry that nothing will change, can he bring the right attitude? I'm not sure. And then I wonder what will happen once Trent, Roaf and Shields hang em up?

I want a HC I can get excited about.

I just think we'd be "throwing the baby out with the bath water," as they say....

I mean, the problem is the DEFENSE; let's find a way to FIX that. Leave well enough alone on the offensive side of the ball.

I'm REALLY gonna be hating life, if we hire one of these trendy Defensive Coordinators....only to see the offensive firepower disappear. I'm gonna be REALLY pissed if we become the Baltimore Ravens, the Buffalo Bills, or the Miami Dolphins.

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Not wanting Al for head coach ≠ hating Al

I don't want Al to be the next HC because I believe it would be a continuation of what we have now and I don't like what we have now.

Start fresh.

I know. I just figured "Saunders-haters" might draw more hits....

Chieficus · 12-20-2005, 10:47 AM

Give must coaches a qality QB, a top notch offensive line, a future HOF TE, and another TE who is an excellent blocker, a FB who excells at blocking, an all-pro RB, a second RB that looks to have the potential to do who knows what, and a decent (though not-great) WR, and they'll look pretty good at their job...

Yes, the OC does play a role in the success of that group, but the group itself has just as much if not more to do with it (as we saw earlier this season with Roaf being out).

I don't think Saunder's problem is being too cute. I think he has the same problem the rest of the coaches seem to have: he can't adjust worth a squat. He's a one-trick pony. It's part of the reason why this O could only muster 3 points against a team like buffalo. If cute works, then hey, be cute all you want... but if what you're doing fails, then you have to adjust--figure out the opponant's weakness and attack.

We need a coach who will do that in-game. I don't know if Saunders just doesn't see it or is just that stubborn, but I want him as the HC as much as I want DV to return... and that's about the desire of having a plague of boils upon my butt.

chagrin · 12-20-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

Because that type of reasoning requires the use of logic, something that few people seem to be able to do.

Iowanian made the point very succinct, here's my long winded version, but I agree.

He has shown us this season that he is too stubborn to make the offensive adjustments necessary to win the games we need to (Let's just go ahead and use the S.D. game earlier in the year) games and then, and based upon this past performance, many are skeptical - including myself - on giving this guy full reign. This logic is also based upon his coaching heritage, the "coaching tree" he is decended from.

It has nothing to do with his prior "failure" as a head coach.

Whether you agree with it or not, I believe many probably feel the same, if not, that's cool; That's how I see it.

P.S. I am undecided on keeping him on staff, but definitely not as a HC

Simplex3 · 12-20-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I just think we'd be "throwing the baby out with the bath water," as they say....

I mean, the problem is the DEFENSE; let's find a way to FIX that. Leave well enough alone on the offensive side of the ball.

I'm REALLY gonna be hating life, if we hire one of these trendy Defensive Coordinators....only to see the offensive firepower disappear. I'm gonna be REALLY pissed if we become the Baltimore Ravens, the Buffalo Bills, or the Miami Dolphins.

How do you know the water doesn't smell bad because the baby died three seasons ago and we're all to emotional to recognize it?

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

When is the last time you saw Al Saunders make good in game adjustments?

14 pts after halftime, both in Dallas and New York.

In games where we were tied or behind, we've scored at least 14 points in the second half MOST of those games.

Yes, the Philly and Buffalo games sucked eggs. And there have been instances when our offense has not responded in the second half; but they are the exception, not the rule.

To me, the problem isn't offense; it's defense. And to throw Al out, over something which he had little or no control....just makes no sense, IMO.

Hoover · 12-20-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I just think we'd be "throwing the baby out with the bath water," as they say....

I mean, the problem is the DEFENSE; let's find a way to FIX that. Leave well enough alone on the offensive side of the ball.

I'm REALLY gonna be hating life, if we hire one of these trendy Defensive Coordinators....only to see the offensive firepower disappear. I'm gonna be REALLY pissed if we become the Baltimore Ravens, the Buffalo Bills, or the Miami Dolphins.

Sorry, but its not just the Defense. Sure its been the reason for the last 2 weeks, but the offense while still getting good stats has not produced close to the results it has in the past. I think some of that is due to Roaf, but a lot of it has to do with play calling.

Mr. Kotter · 12-20-2005, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplex3

How do you know the water doesn't smell bad because the baby died three seasons ago and we're all to emotional to recognize it?

You honestly think this Offense is dead.

20 of the teams in the League would LOVE to have this offense--even without Shields, and without Holmes.

Simplex3 · 12-20-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

You honestly think this Offense is dead.

20 of the teams in the League would LOVE to have this offense--even without Shields, and without Holmes.

Like the rest of the team, this offense lays down when it matters most. If we're blaming the D on Gun then the O is on Saunders.

chiefz · 12-20-2005, 10:55 AM

1st and goal, 9 yard line, 4 point lead with 1:21 remaining on the clock before the half, Kansas City has successfully moved the ball on the ground and already scored two rushing touchdowns.

The play comes in, its a pass incomplete to Larry Johnson in the middle due to PRESSURE ON GREEN.

Time running out on the clock, oh wait... The Chiefs call a timeout????

1:16 left on the clock before the half, 4 point lead, 2nd and goal on the 9 yard line.

The play comes in... The fullback goes out?

Singleback formation, here comes the snap, its another pass?

Johnson misses the block on the outside linebacker blitz.......................

12-20-2005, 10:36 AM
Mr. Kotter Self Ban Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: In some's minds... Casino cash: $3194285	Saunders-haters: Why NOT Al? Why rebuild, when you can reload? Come on, hear me out on this.... I've read here and elsewhere, it's because CP doesn't "like" Saunders; or he has different politics than the rest of the FO. I've read that he's pissed off LJ; and that LJ is CP's boy. I've read Al gets too "cute" with his play calling. I've read he's already been a HC, and failed. While there may be some element of truth to each of those charges....as major reasons to not consider hiring Saunders, I just don't buy any of it. This is football. While the team has suffered as a result of DV's neglect of the defense IMO, Al has done his job extremely well. Saunders has been a big part of some of the most consistently successful offenses in the history of the league. The Chief's offense the last five years has been a joy to watch--90% of the time. If Roaf comes back, filling Shields spot is the only significant task left to do on that side of the ball. Yes, developing a young tackle or two, finding a QBOTF, converting Wilson from TE to FB to replace TRich (or something like that-heh), and signing a quality back up for LJ, are all we would really need to do for the next two or three years on Offense. Very "doable" in my mind. Now, having said that......something dramatic has to be done on the Defensive side of the ball. However, who's to say that with Saunders taking over, that he and CP won't be able to cherry-pick the coaches that are worth keeping, while at the same time hiring new coaches in key areas..... Along with a couple of key additions to the defensive personnel, in the draft and in FA (provided we can clear the cap room) and I think we will have just reloaded, instead of rebuilding. Thoughts, comments, or reactions?
Posts: 46,966

12-20-2005, 10:38 AM	#2
Hoover Rufus Dawes Jr. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-2201821	I really Struggle with this question. I worry that nothing will change, can he bring the right attitude? I'm not sure. And then I wonder what will happen once Trent, Roaf and Shields hang em up? I want a HC I can get excited about.
Posts: 18,023

12-20-2005, 10:40 AM	#3
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	Because that type of reasoning requires the use of logic, something that few people seem to be able to do. __________________ Who's decision was it to fire Romeo" - Coleman C Hunt: "It was my decision but it was one that Scott agreed with" LOL
Posts: 2,613

12-20-2005, 10:40 AM	#4
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1648454	When is the last time you saw Al Saunders make good in game adjustments?
Posts: 62,945

12-20-2005, 10:43 AM	#5
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8089900	Not wanting Al for head coach ≠ hating Al I don't want Al to be the next HC because I believe it would be a continuation of what we have now and I don't like what we have now. Start fresh.
Posts: 104,450

12-20-2005, 10:47 AM	#8
Chieficus infralapsarianism Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: West MO Casino cash: $-1564272	Give must coaches a qality QB, a top notch offensive line, a future HOF TE, and another TE who is an excellent blocker, a FB who excells at blocking, an all-pro RB, a second RB that looks to have the potential to do who knows what, and a decent (though not-great) WR, and they'll look pretty good at their job... Yes, the OC does play a role in the success of that group, but the group itself has just as much if not more to do with it (as we saw earlier this season with Roaf being out). I don't think Saunder's problem is being too cute. I think he has the same problem the rest of the coaches seem to have: he can't adjust worth a squat. He's a one-trick pony. It's part of the reason why this O could only muster 3 points against a team like buffalo. If cute works, then hey, be cute all you want... but if what you're doing fails, then you have to adjust--figure out the opponant's weakness and attack. We need a coach who will do that in-game. I don't know if Saunders just doesn't see it or is just that stubborn, but I want him as the HC as much as I want DV to return... and that's about the desire of having a plague of boils upon my butt.
Posts: 1,805

12-20-2005, 10:55 AM	#15
chiefz Plummer Sucks! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central IL Casino cash: $10004900	1st and goal, 9 yard line, 4 point lead with 1:21 remaining on the clock before the half, Kansas City has successfully moved the ball on the ground and already scored two rushing touchdowns. The play comes in, its a pass incomplete to Larry Johnson in the middle due to PRESSURE ON GREEN. Time running out on the clock, oh wait... The Chiefs call a timeout???? 1:16 left on the clock before the half, 4 point lead, 2nd and goal on the 9 yard line. The play comes in... The fullback goes out? Singleback formation, here comes the snap, its another pass? Johnson misses the block on the outside linebacker blitz....................... __________________
Posts: 514