Chiefs 2018 NFL midseason awards

Msmith · 11-05-2018, 11:46 AM

Interesting take in comparing Brees and Mahomes;

"Let's work through these two together, since they stand apart for me. The most obvious difference is the touchdown total. Mahomes has 29 touchdown passes. Twenty-nine! Brees has 18. Andrew Luck has 23, and nobody else in the league tops 20. The second-year sensation Mahomes is throwing for touchdowns on 9.1 percent of his passes, the second-highest mark in the league behind Ryan Fitzpatrick. The only passer to hit 9 percent in a 500-attempt season is Aaron Rodgers in 2011. Tom Brady didn't do it in 2007. Dan Marino didn't do it in 1984. This is a big advantage for Mahomes.

And then, when you start working through the rest of the categories, Brees picks up advantages, some significant. The veteran has thrown one interception on 279 pass attempts. Mahomes has thrown seven in 317 tries, although his pick on Sunday was essentially a Hail Mary after poor Chiefs clock management. Mahomes is completing 66.2 percent of his passes. Brees is completing 76.3 percent of his throws. Just as Mahomes is challenging the touchdown record, Brees is threatening to take the completion percentage record and jump it from 72.1 percent by more than 4 percentage points. Completions can be overrated, but 40.9 percent of Brees' completions go for first downs, which is well above the league average of 36.3 percent.

Mahomes is averaging nearly a full yard more per pass than Brees, but a lot of that comes from his receivers' work on screens. Strip them out and Brees is completing 74.9 percent of his passes and averaging 8.7 yards per attempt. Mahomes is completing 61.9 percent of his non-screen passes while averaging ... 8.7 yards per attempt. Both marks are great. You don't need me to tell you Brees' is better.

Of course, while both teams have excellent weapons, there's a reason I ranked the Chiefs' weapons as the scariest in football before the season. Brees' top two receivers are Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara. Pretty terrifying. Mahomes gets to work with Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt. Also scary. After that, though, Mahomes' next two guys up are Travis Kelce and Sammy Watkins. Brees is working with Benjamin Watson and either Ted Ginn Jr. or rookie Tre'Quan Smith, depending on when you're judging the arsenals. Brees has Mark Ingram to help in pass protection and a better offensive line given the injuries on the interior for the Chiefs, but Mahomes has more with which to work.

I'm not exactly the QB wins type, but the Saints are 7-1 and the Chiefs are 8-1. The Saints' lone loss came in a game against the Bucs in which Brees put up 40 points and his defense allowed 48 points. The Chiefs' lone loss came in a game in which Mahomes scored 40 points and his defense allowed 43 points to the Patriots. The only thing I might mention is that Mahomes left a couple of would-be touchdowns on the table with bad throws in the first half. It would be foolish to say Mahomes played badly, but it also would be naive to pretend he couldn't have played better given the opportunities at hand.

The case for Mahomes outside of the touchdowns isn't as obvious, at least to me. He has thrown 38 more passes than Brees, the product of not yet having his bye week. Mahomes offers far more with his legs than Brees, as the Texas Tech product has 144 rushing yards and two touchdowns on 25 carries once you remove those pesky kneel-downs from his totals. Brees, ceding touches in the running game to Taysom Hill, has turned nine carries into 34 yards, although he also has two scores on sneaks, which mitigates some of the gap between the two.

At the end of the day, there just isn't much between these two. Brees has a passer rating of 120.6 and a Total QBR of 84.5. Mahomes has a passer rating of 116.7 and a Total QBR of 85.4. They're 1-2 in each category. Maybe I lean toward Brees because the sentimental, sappy side of me wants to see the 39-year-old Brees finally win league MVP before he retires. If you prefer Mahomes, I can't fault you. If Mahomes gets to 56 passing touchdowns and breaks the league record in his first full year as a starter, I'll join you on that side of the fence. For now, though, very narrowly, I lean toward Brees."

Link:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...-rookies-plays

carcosa · 11-05-2018, 11:47 AM

Barnwell can eat my ass!!!!!

O.city · 11-05-2018, 11:49 AM

I don't have a problem with giving it to Brees.

pugsnotdrugs19 · 11-05-2018, 11:49 AM

Bullshit to penalize someone because of the assets at their disposal.

People act like Nathan Peterman would be leading this offense to a #1 seed too. It's absolutely ridiculous. Mahomes is making everyone around him better, just like he did in college. The only difference is some of the guys around him were already great.

DRM08 · 11-05-2018, 11:54 AM

So Brees is completing 13% more on non-screen throws but the average per attempt is equal. Doesn’t that mean Mahomes is going downfield more often? More yards per completion. Also harder to complete them.

carcosa · 11-05-2018, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't have a problem with giving it to Brees.

I DO

pugsnotdrugs19 · 11-05-2018, 11:59 AM

Mahomes being the QB takes this offense from being really good to an all-time great unit.

Mecca · 11-05-2018, 12:04 PM

Brees is going to get this award because of sentimentally, it's ****ing stupid and lame.

DRM08 · 11-05-2018, 12:09 PM

Another factor helping Brees besides the general dink and dunk aspect of Payton’s offense is playing indoors. 6 of 8 games so far this year have been indoors for the Saints. No wind, no rain, no sun in a receiver’s eyes for those 6 games. Mahomes’ entire career has been outdoors so far and that will continue the rest of the regular season.

Mecca · 11-05-2018, 12:12 PM

If the Saints get the 1 seed and the Chiefs don't....Mahomes is ****ed even if he throws 55 TD's.

carcosa · 11-05-2018, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

If the Saints get the 1 seed and the Chiefs don't....Mahomes is ****ed even if he throws 55 TD's.

Eh... I think 55 touchdowns gets you the MVP award.

Mecca · 11-05-2018, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carcosa

Eh... I think 55 touchdowns gets you the MVP award.

I dunno there is this huge push to give it to Brees cause people feel bad he's never won one.

Basileus777 · 11-05-2018, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

If the Saints get the 1 seed and the Chiefs don't....Mahomes is ****ed even if he throws 55 TD's.

The Saints won't get the 1 seed though. Their schedule is really brutal and the Rams have it easy. Saints are not even clear favorites to win their division at this point.

Chiefs are highly likely to finish with a better record than New Orleans, which will help Mahomes.

Rasputin · 11-05-2018, 12:26 PM

Mahomes > Brees left handed

DRM08 · 11-05-2018, 12:31 PM

Small sample size at only 2 games due to the crazy number of dome games for the Saints this year, but here is Drew outdoors: 64.5% completions, 2 TD, 0 INT, 215 yards per game, less than 7 yards per attempt. Not so great. One wonders what his numbers might be if he played all 8 games outdoors instead of 2.

11-05-2018, 11:46 AM
Msmith Veteran Join Date: Jan 2004 Casino cash: $8198035	2018 NFL midseason awards Interesting take in comparing Brees and Mahomes; "Let's work through these two together, since they stand apart for me. The most obvious difference is the touchdown total. Mahomes has 29 touchdown passes. Twenty-nine! Brees has 18. Andrew Luck has 23, and nobody else in the league tops 20. The second-year sensation Mahomes is throwing for touchdowns on 9.1 percent of his passes, the second-highest mark in the league behind Ryan Fitzpatrick. The only passer to hit 9 percent in a 500-attempt season is Aaron Rodgers in 2011. Tom Brady didn't do it in 2007. Dan Marino didn't do it in 1984. This is a big advantage for Mahomes. And then, when you start working through the rest of the categories, Brees picks up advantages, some significant. The veteran has thrown one interception on 279 pass attempts. Mahomes has thrown seven in 317 tries, although his pick on Sunday was essentially a Hail Mary after poor Chiefs clock management. Mahomes is completing 66.2 percent of his passes. Brees is completing 76.3 percent of his throws. Just as Mahomes is challenging the touchdown record, Brees is threatening to take the completion percentage record and jump it from 72.1 percent by more than 4 percentage points. Completions can be overrated, but 40.9 percent of Brees' completions go for first downs, which is well above the league average of 36.3 percent. Mahomes is averaging nearly a full yard more per pass than Brees, but a lot of that comes from his receivers' work on screens. Strip them out and Brees is completing 74.9 percent of his passes and averaging 8.7 yards per attempt. Mahomes is completing 61.9 percent of his non-screen passes while averaging ... 8.7 yards per attempt. Both marks are great. You don't need me to tell you Brees' is better. Of course, while both teams have excellent weapons, there's a reason I ranked the Chiefs' weapons as the scariest in football before the season. Brees' top two receivers are Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara. Pretty terrifying. Mahomes gets to work with Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt. Also scary. After that, though, Mahomes' next two guys up are Travis Kelce and Sammy Watkins. Brees is working with Benjamin Watson and either Ted Ginn Jr. or rookie Tre'Quan Smith, depending on when you're judging the arsenals. Brees has Mark Ingram to help in pass protection and a better offensive line given the injuries on the interior for the Chiefs, but Mahomes has more with which to work. I'm not exactly the QB wins type, but the Saints are 7-1 and the Chiefs are 8-1. The Saints' lone loss came in a game against the Bucs in which Brees put up 40 points and his defense allowed 48 points. The Chiefs' lone loss came in a game in which Mahomes scored 40 points and his defense allowed 43 points to the Patriots. The only thing I might mention is that Mahomes left a couple of would-be touchdowns on the table with bad throws in the first half. It would be foolish to say Mahomes played badly, but it also would be naive to pretend he couldn't have played better given the opportunities at hand. The case for Mahomes outside of the touchdowns isn't as obvious, at least to me. He has thrown 38 more passes than Brees, the product of not yet having his bye week. Mahomes offers far more with his legs than Brees, as the Texas Tech product has 144 rushing yards and two touchdowns on 25 carries once you remove those pesky kneel-downs from his totals. Brees, ceding touches in the running game to Taysom Hill, has turned nine carries into 34 yards, although he also has two scores on sneaks, which mitigates some of the gap between the two. At the end of the day, there just isn't much between these two. Brees has a passer rating of 120.6 and a Total QBR of 84.5. Mahomes has a passer rating of 116.7 and a Total QBR of 85.4. They're 1-2 in each category. Maybe I lean toward Brees because the sentimental, sappy side of me wants to see the 39-year-old Brees finally win league MVP before he retires. If you prefer Mahomes, I can't fault you. If Mahomes gets to 56 passing touchdowns and breaks the league record in his first full year as a starter, I'll join you on that side of the fence. For now, though, very narrowly, I lean toward Brees." Link:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...-rookies-plays
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11-05-2018, 11:47 AM	#2
carcosa Thank you Join Date: May 2014 Casino cash: $-806305	Barnwell can eat my ass!!!!!
Posts: 23,429

11-05-2018, 11:49 AM	#3
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-725936	I don't have a problem with giving it to Brees.
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11-05-2018, 11:49 AM	#4
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $6609447	Bullshit to penalize someone because of the assets at their disposal. People act like Nathan Peterman would be leading this offense to a #1 seed too. It's absolutely ridiculous. Mahomes is making everyone around him better, just like he did in college. The only difference is some of the guys around him were already great.
Posts: 29,037	1 0

11-05-2018, 11:54 AM	#5
DRM08 In Search of a Life Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas Casino cash: $-1149600	So Brees is completing 13% more on non-screen throws but the average per attempt is equal. Doesn’t that mean Mahomes is going downfield more often? More yards per completion. Also harder to complete them.
Posts: 20,507	1 0

11-05-2018, 11:59 AM	#7
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $6609447	Mahomes being the QB takes this offense from being really good to an all-time great unit.
Posts: 29,037	1 0

11-05-2018, 12:04 PM	#8
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-702950	Brees is going to get this award because of sentimentally, it's ****ing stupid and lame.
Posts: 115,371

11-05-2018, 12:09 PM	#9
DRM08 In Search of a Life Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas Casino cash: $-1149600	Another factor helping Brees besides the general dink and dunk aspect of Payton’s offense is playing indoors. 6 of 8 games so far this year have been indoors for the Saints. No wind, no rain, no sun in a receiver’s eyes for those 6 games. Mahomes’ entire career has been outdoors so far and that will continue the rest of the regular season.
Posts: 20,507

11-05-2018, 12:12 PM	#10
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-702950	If the Saints get the 1 seed and the Chiefs don't....Mahomes is ****ed even if he throws 55 TD's.
Posts: 115,371

11-05-2018, 12:26 PM	#14
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $45421	Mahomes > Brees left handed
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11-05-2018, 12:31 PM	#15
DRM08 In Search of a Life Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas Casino cash: $-1149600	Small sample size at only 2 games due to the crazy number of dome games for the Saints this year, but here is Drew outdoors: 64.5% completions, 2 TD, 0 INT, 215 yards per game, less than 7 yards per attempt. Not so great. One wonders what his numbers might be if he played all 8 games outdoors instead of 2.
Posts: 20,507