Coaching Bad? Ok. Management bad? Let's look...

stevieray · 09-11-2000, 08:51 PM

We have had a miriad of reasons explaining the Chiefs derailment into obscuruity, at least in the medias eyes.

People say we don't have the right combination of coaches and players. People say other organizations blow us out of the water...

If this is true, why do you see ex- Chiefs employees all around the league? Gibbs is in Denver. We lost someone to GB, Dungy? HC Cowher? HC

Something else to think about. Only KC has a players playing for every other team in our division.
It's not bad enough that free agency dterioates continuity, but players shuffling back and forth between division foes is weak. Might make for a good rivalry, but really dampers the competition. You know players take the team info to your rival. Pseudo cheating...

This has burned this team. Can't keep DT and Neil, lose Neil to Denver, they knock us out of ther playoffs. Can't keep Gannon and Grbac, lose Gannon to Faiduhs, they knock us out the playoffs. You can debate who we should've kept all night long, but it's a moot point.

Th current system appears stale. It is not too late to turn things around, and even if we did, I'm sorry to say it will feel like we stumbled onto it, instead of building something.

TEX · 09-12-2000, 12:13 AM

Stevieray,
The coach that went to Green bay was Mike Rossley - he's now their OC. He was my choice to STAY here and REPLACE Raye. The year before I wanted Al Saundars - he left for the Rams. BOTH would be better than Jimmy Raye IMHO and we had them.

Interesting take - I guarantee that we DO NOT have to worry about anyone from this coaching staff burning us somewhere else. Or maybe it would be a GOOD thig if we lost some of our coaches to other teams - especially division rivals! *grin*

milkman · 09-13-2000, 10:25 AM

Position coaches in KC are not the problem with the coaching staff. Until Gun took over, D-Coordinator hasn't been a problem, except for Dave Adolf. The problem that the Chiefs have had since the first day that Marty took over the reins as HC, and that continues under Gun, is at OC. We have gone from a fair OC (Joe Pendry) to a bad OC (Hackett) to a clueless, absolutely horrendous OC (Raye).
Now, under Gun, we have problems with ST (Stock) and DC (Spurt) as well.
It's past time to clean house.

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[b]Red Eyes[/b]
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.

Clint in Wichita · 09-13-2000, 10:39 AM

KC's coaching is a steaming pile of horse sheeit, and always has been. All of the good coaches that the Chiefs have EVER had in the Peterson Era are no longer with the team because Carl didn't feel they were worth re-signing.

The coaches are hired by the GM. If they suck and are not dealt with swiftly and harshly, the GM deserves as much criticism as the coaching staff.

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Mosbonian · 09-13-2000, 11:02 AM

Clint:

Just for S & G's, how about you tell us all your dream duo of GM and Head Coach that is
[b]available[/b] in the market out there right now.

It's easy to pick a new OC & DC because the present one's are absolutely clueless, and anyone would be an improvement.

But as for GM and Head Coach, I am left pretty up in the air. Capers is not a guy who can do anything with an Offense(we already have one of theose here)and Art Shell is not the man either.

As for GM, since Holmgren and Casserly are both employed, I don't see anyone I would want.

Just interested since you are ripping at Carl, who you would replace him with.

mmaddog
************

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Clint in Wichita · 09-13-2000, 11:05 AM

Tom Donahoe - GM
Joe Gibbs - HC or both.

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RaiderCorporate · 09-13-2000, 11:05 AM

Stevieray:

You moan about former chiefs players and coaches with other teams as a major reason for chiefs present woeful state.

Are you suggesting only your team suffers from this condition? Other teams have to deal with the same situation, so move on...

milkman · 09-13-2000, 11:14 AM

Mark,
I disagree regarding Capers. He is not an offensive minded coach, but I think he is smart enough to hire a good OC.
If the Chiefs cleaned house, these would be my picks.
GM-Jeff Diamond
HC-Capers
OC-Bruce Arians
DC-Jax LB coach, who is familiar with Capers defensive schemes.

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[b]Red Eyes[/b]
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.

Mosbonian · 09-13-2000, 11:15 AM

Clint:

Gibbs might be a good choice, but don't you think the game has passed him by the same way it had Marty?

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Cannibal · 09-13-2000, 11:17 AM

I like milkman's choice for GM.

But I'd definitely pass on Dom Capers.

I'd hire an offensive minded college head coach that has an eye for talent... Bill Snyder.

He knows how to turn around a football team.

Mosbonian · 09-13-2000, 11:18 AM

milkman:

Living here in SC I saw more of Capers than I needed to when he was with the Panthers. IMO, he is not the guy to be the HC.

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

**Tribal Warfare** · 09-13-2000, 11:21 AM

I'm going to tell you this guys, I remember everyone talking about coaches in the Chiefs organization that didn't believe Grbac couldn't run the offense one of those coaches was Al Saunders.
In other words unless Peterson goes there will be no offense period.

milkman · 09-13-2000, 11:30 AM

Jim Mora, in 10 years in New Orleans didn't have a clue about offense. When he was hired in Indy, he, after finally learning from his NO experience, got a clue and hired an OC, who knows how to run an offense. I think Capers would do the same.
I also like Capers because his defensive schemes would seem to be ideal for the Chiefs personell. And, like Gaz, I am a fan of good defense. I also realize that to win in this league, you need to score points.

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[b]Red Eyes[/b]
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.

milkman · 09-13-2000, 11:33 AM

ChiefPriority,
I'm not certain what you are saying exactly. Are you saying Saunders desn't have any faith in Grbac?

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[b]Red Eyes[/b]
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.

KCTitus · 09-13-2000, 11:35 AM

You'll never pull Gibbs away from his racing gigs in NASCAR and NHRA.

Speaking of Mora, he had to philosphically change his approach to the game. Like Vermeil, he had to understand that the game is about Offense. The days of Defense Only is a thing of the past.

Until we change philosophy, it wont matter who's in the coaching postion.

09-12-2000, 12:13 AM	#2
TEX Out Gunning CP's Fandom Police Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Laguna Beach, CA Casino cash: $1993127	Stevieray, The coach that went to Green bay was Mike Rossley - he's now their OC. He was my choice to STAY here and REPLACE Raye. The year before I wanted Al Saundars - he left for the Rams. BOTH would be better than Jimmy Raye IMHO and we had them. Interesting take - I guarantee that we DO NOT have to worry about anyone from this coaching staff burning us somewhere else. Or maybe it would be a GOOD thig if we lost some of our coaches to other teams - especially division rivals! grin
Posts: 34,773

09-13-2000, 10:25 AM	#3
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	Position coaches in KC are not the problem with the coaching staff. Until Gun took over, D-Coordinator hasn't been a problem, except for Dave Adolf. The problem that the Chiefs have had since the first day that Marty took over the reins as HC, and that continues under Gun, is at OC. We have gone from a fair OC (Joe Pendry) to a bad OC (Hackett) to a clueless, absolutely horrendous OC (Raye). Now, under Gun, we have problems with ST (Stock) and DC (Spurt) as well. It's past time to clean house. ------------------ [b]Red Eyes[/b] [i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>
Posts: 70,769

09-13-2000, 10:39 AM	#4
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	KC's coaching is a steaming pile of horse sheeit, and always has been. All of the good coaches that the Chiefs have EVER had in the Peterson Era are no longer with the team because Carl didn't feel they were worth re-signing. The coaches are hired by the GM. If they suck and are not dealt with swiftly and harshly, the GM deserves as much criticism as the coaching staff. ------------------ This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!
Posts: 4,458

09-13-2000, 11:02 AM	#5
Mosbonian On Hiatus Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $2199700	Clint: Just for S & G's, how about you tell us all your dream duo of GM and Head Coach that is [b]available[/b] in the market out there right now. It's easy to pick a new OC & DC because the present one's are absolutely clueless, and anyone would be an improvement. But as for GM and Head Coach, I am left pretty up in the air. Capers is not a guy who can do anything with an Offense(we already have one of theose here)and Art Shell is not the man either. As for GM, since Holmgren and Casserly are both employed, I don't see anyone I would want. Just interested since you are ripping at Carl, who you would replace him with. mmaddog ************ ------------------ "When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"
Posts: 11,360

09-13-2000, 11:05 AM	#6
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Tom Donahoe - GM Joe Gibbs - HC or both. ------------------ This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!
Posts: 4,458

09-11-2000, 08:51 PM
stevieray best in the biz Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $2215273	We have had a miriad of reasons explaining the Chiefs derailment into obscuruity, at least in the medias eyes. People say we don't have the right combination of coaches and players. People say other organizations blow us out of the water... If this is true, why do you see ex- Chiefs employees all around the league? Gibbs is in Denver. We lost someone to GB, Dungy? HC Cowher? HC Something else to think about. Only KC has a players playing for every other team in our division. It's not bad enough that free agency dterioates continuity, but players shuffling back and forth between division foes is weak. Might make for a good rivalry, but really dampers the competition. You know players take the team info to your rival. Pseudo cheating... This has burned this team. Can't keep DT and Neil, lose Neil to Denver, they knock us out of ther playoffs. Can't keep Gannon and Grbac, lose Gannon to Faiduhs, they knock us out the playoffs. You can debate who we should've kept all night long, but it's a moot point. Th current system appears stale. It is not too late to turn things around, and even if we did, I'm sorry to say it will feel like we stumbled onto it, instead of building something.
Posts: 71,456

09-13-2000, 11:05 AM	#7
RaiderCorporate RAIDERS - silver & black 4ever Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Stevieray: You moan about former chiefs players and coaches with other teams as a major reason for chiefs present woeful state. Are you suggesting only your team suffers from this condition? Other teams have to deal with the same situation, so move on...<BR>
Posts: 246

09-13-2000, 11:14 AM	#8
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	Mark, I disagree regarding Capers. He is not an offensive minded coach, but I think he is smart enough to hire a good OC. If the Chiefs cleaned house, these would be my picks. GM-Jeff Diamond HC-Capers OC-Bruce Arians DC-Jax LB coach, who is familiar with Capers defensive schemes. ------------------ [b]Red Eyes[/b] [i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>
Posts: 70,769

09-13-2000, 11:15 AM	#9
Mosbonian On Hiatus Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $2199700	Clint: Gibbs might be a good choice, but don't you think the game has passed him by the same way it had Marty? ------------------ "When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"
Posts: 11,360

09-13-2000, 11:17 AM	#10
Cannibal Better to burn out... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bible Thumping Country Casino cash: $10010618	I like milkman's choice for GM. But I'd definitely pass on Dom Capers. I'd hire an offensive minded college head coach that has an eye for talent... Bill Snyder. He knows how to turn around a football team.
Posts: 9,306

09-13-2000, 11:18 AM	#11
Mosbonian On Hiatus Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $2199700	milkman: Living here in SC I saw more of Capers than I needed to when he was with the Panthers. IMO, he is not the guy to be the HC. ------------------ "When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"
Posts: 11,360

09-13-2000, 11:21 AM	#12
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $542813	I'm going to tell you this guys, I remember everyone talking about coaches in the Chiefs organization that didn't believe Grbac couldn't run the offense one of those coaches was Al Saunders. In other words unless Peterson goes there will be no offense period.
Posts: 42,166

09-13-2000, 11:30 AM	#13
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	Jim Mora, in 10 years in New Orleans didn't have a clue about offense. When he was hired in Indy, he, after finally learning from his NO experience, got a clue and hired an OC, who knows how to run an offense. I think Capers would do the same. I also like Capers because his defensive schemes would seem to be ideal for the Chiefs personell. And, like Gaz, I am a fan of good defense. I also realize that to win in this league, you need to score points. ------------------ [b]Red Eyes[/b] [i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>
Posts: 70,769

09-13-2000, 11:33 AM	#14
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	ChiefPriority, I'm not certain what you are saying exactly. Are you saying Saunders desn't have any faith in Grbac? ------------------ [b]Red Eyes[/b] [i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>
Posts: 70,769

09-13-2000, 11:35 AM	#15
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9892732	You'll never pull Gibbs away from his racing gigs in NASCAR and NHRA. Speaking of Mora, he had to philosphically change his approach to the game. Like Vermeil, he had to understand that the game is about Offense. The days of Defense Only is a thing of the past. Until we change philosophy, it wont matter who's in the coaching postion.
Posts: 26,193