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Old 02-08-2005, 04:36 PM  
warpaint99
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NewEngland Pat Defense question. Compare to Gunthers D.
So New England didn't play tight man on man coverage . They even played a ROOKIE db.

So why did Gunther play tight man on man and not play some bend but don't break d ? We were getting torched for big gains.

Is there a problem with Gunther not making adequate adjustments to the type of players?

D. Vermeil even mentioned this . He said why are we playing man to man coverage. He said we shouldn't be giving easy Td's. He said our DB's needed to give the WR some space and prevent big plays.

So is Gunther not making the right decisions ? If Billichick were our Dcoord. then would he play tight man to man. Obviously NOt.
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Old 02-08-2005, 04:50 PM   #2
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The Pats have the BEST LBing core in the NFL. The Chiefs have one of the worst.

The Pats have one of the best D-lines in the league and a hell of a pass-rush.

The Chiefs are mediocre at best on the D-line.
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:22 PM   #3
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It doesn't matter how good or bad our corners are ... with a NON consistant pass rush we fail to keep the opposing quarterback from having all day to find an open guy.

BCF is right ... without ALL players being on the same keel, (relentless passrush and key LB's playing well) it is a fruitless effort for our secondary to keep up with ANY reciever.

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Old 02-08-2005, 05:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefFan
The Pats have the BEST LBing core in the NFL. The Chiefs have one of the worst.

The Pats have one of the best D-lines in the league and a hell of a pass-rush.

The Chiefs are mediocre at best on the D-line.
New England had 45 sacks. The Chiefs had 41.

The biggest difference is by far at LB.
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
New England had 45 sacks. The Chiefs had 41.

The biggest difference is by far at LB.
D-Line isn't just about sacks, I don't know their run-stopping stats but I'd venture to say they are better thant he Chiefs in that category. Besides that look at their D-line players compared to ours. Ty warren, Richard Seymour, and Keith Traylor. Add the young Vince Wilfork into the mix and their starters are definitely better than ours. I'd take Seymour over any of our D-line players any day. Like I said our D-line is mediocre compared to their D-Line guys.
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
New England had 45 sacks. The Chiefs had 41.

The biggest difference is by far at LB.
But how much blitzing did you have to do to get them?

Sacks are the most overrated stat. in the NFL anyway.

But I'd agree that we have one of the best LB groups in the NFL, and yours are unremarkable to say the least.
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
New England had 45 sacks. The Chiefs had 41.

The biggest difference is by far at LB.
And safety, too...
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix
But how much blitzing did you have to do to get them?
.
Yep....quite a bit.
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpaint99
So New England didn't play tight man on man coverage . They even played a ROOKIE db.

So why did Gunther play tight man on man and not play some bend but don't break d ? We were getting torched for big gains.

Is there a problem with Gunther not making adequate adjustments to the type of players?

D. Vermeil even mentioned this . He said why are we playing man to man coverage. He said we shouldn't be giving easy Td's. He said our DB's needed to give the WR some space and prevent big plays.

So is Gunther not making the right decisions ? If Billichick were our Dcoord. then would he play tight man to man. Obviously NOt.
because our cornerback are built big for man to man remember.


in other words, they can't play zone either


knob'son tried playing bend but don't break zone defense they year before as well.

slow death, quick death


until we get guys that can cover, it doesn't matter what we play.



as for all the guys that talk pass rush first.... their we several times in the super bowl where the secondary broke up passes when the pass rush couldn't make it... they also tackled well.

our coverage is BY FAR our weakess part of the defense.
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Old 02-08-2005, 06:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarASS
because our cornerback are built big for man to man remember.


in other words, they can't play zone either


knob'son tried playing bend but don't break zone defense they year before as well.

slow death, quick death


until we get guys that can cover, it doesn't matter what we play.



as for all the guys that talk pass rush first.... their we several times in the super bowl where the secondary broke up passes when the pass rush couldn't make it... they also tackled well.

our coverage is BY FAR our weakess part of the defense.
I want a FIRST round DE because I'm hopeful we will actually get aggressive in FA and address it well before the draft.
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Old 02-08-2005, 06:07 PM   #11
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No one has answered my question.

Gunther's D was flawed. He played tight man to man and we got burnt a ton. We needed to play off the receiver so he doesn't burn us and force the other team to move the ball slowly with dink and dunk passes so we have a shot at INT'ing.

I guess getting a better corner will help . I am going to say this about next season. Trying to cover the 'burner type' (T.O.) receivers with man to man is a big mistake. I don't care what corner you have with these new rules. Gunther will also be on the hot seat if easy TD's still occur.
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Old 02-08-2005, 06:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpaint99
No one has answered my question.

Gunther's D was flawed. He played tight man to man and we got burnt a ton. We needed to play off the receiver so he doesn't burn us and force the other team to move the ball slowly with dink and dunk passes so we have a shot at INT'ing.

I guess getting a better corner will help . I am going to say this about next season. Trying to cover the 'burner type' (T.O.) receivers with man to man is a big mistake. I don't care what corner you have with these new rules. Gunther will also be on the hot seat if easy TD's still occur.
We HAVE answered your question. Their players are superior to our d players, especially at the LBing core and the D-line is better, too.
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Old 02-08-2005, 06:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix
But how much blitzing did you have to do to get them?

Sacks are the most overrated stat. in the NFL anyway.

But I'd agree that we have one of the best LB groups in the NFL, and yours are unremarkable to say the least.
I never said the D-line wasn't better than ours.

I just said the BIGGEST gap is at LB.
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Old 02-08-2005, 06:28 PM   #14
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I saw a lot of man coverage often without safety help over the top. He didn't do as much press coverage as the Chiefs did this year though.

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Old 02-08-2005, 06:53 PM   #15
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I'm of the opinion that you can take the most talented shut-down corner in the NFL, and turn him into a bad one by having play on a defense in which the front four couldn't warrant a starting spot on any other NFL team.

Of course our corners were bad - any corner will 'become' terrible if they have to cover for 7+ seconds.

Our last great corners (Hasty/Carter) also had the bennefit of a productive pass rush. Our front four hit the opposing O-Lineman...and nothing else happens; they get owned.
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