Great now Afganistan is getting pissed..

**Dave Lane** · 05-30-2006, 04:12 PM

A bunch of dead in Afgan and Iraq including 3 reporters and not a single thread! Wow what does that say about how accustomed to this we have become?

Dave

KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Initial results of a U.S. military investigation show the driver of a truck that plowed into civilian cars in Kabul attempted to slow down by hitting the unoccupied vehicles after his truck's brakes failed.

The truck crashed Monday into as many as 12 civilian cars and a group of pedestrians, the U.S. military said.

The crash sparked anti-U.S. riots swept through the Afghan capital. The Afghan Health Ministry said at least eight people died and 109 were wounded in the unrest.

Coalition spokesman Col. Tom Collins, who revealed the initial results at a briefing in Kabul on Tuesday, said the driver was "very experienced in the operation of this type of vehicle, a heavy cargo truck."

"(He) applied the primary and emergency brakes and took evasive action to avoid hitting pedestrians, to include hitting several unoccupied parked vehicles in an effort to slow or stop the truck," Collins said.

Kabul appeared to be largely quiet Tuesday after an overnight curfew was lifted.

CNN's Henry Schuster said NATO and Afghan troops were on the streets of Kabul on Tuesday, but U.S. troops were keeping a low profile and remained on base. There were no reports of gunfire in the capital.

Monday's rioting resulted in widespread looting throughout the city as schools, banks and hospitals were ravaged by the crowds.

A shopkeeper in the popular Chicken Street shopping district said businesses remained closed Tuesday, but hoped to reopen at midweek.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai's office said five people were killed in Monday's vehicle crash. The U.S. military, in a statement issued earlier, said at least one person was killed in the crash and six were wounded, two of them critically.

As the rioting spread Monday, the U.S. military headquarters was locked down, and personnel were told to put on full protective gear. Afghan security forces fanned out in hopes of bringing order, but were unable to do so.

Video from one rioting site after the crash showed a U.S. military vehicle firing in the direction of a crowd of Afghans. Military officials, after seeing the video, said an investigation was under way.

Afghan officials called it the worst day of rioting in Kabul since the fall of the Taliban regime.

The office compound of the aid group CARE International was set on fire. Charred computer equipment and papers could be seen on the ground.

Throughout Kabul, firefighters were deployed to numerous buildings to control the blazes.

Dozens of protesters outside the U.S. Embassy on Monday screamed "Death to Americans!"

Embassy spokesman Chris Harris said many embassy personnel were sent to bunkers during the rioting, and were "in secure locations" for about 90 minutes.

Personnel have been instructed not to leave the U.S. compound Tuesday, he said.

Protesters outside the embassy, and elsewhere in the capital, yelled "Death to Karzai," accusing the president of being a virtual puppet for the United States.

A statement from Karzai's office called on Afghans to "remain calm and practice restraint."

Although there have frequently been attacks on U.S. military personnel in parts of Afghanistan, such widespread anti-U.S. protests have been unheard of in Kabul since the U.S.-led war ousted the Taliban regime in late 2001.

The crash took place Monday morning when a truck in a U.S. military convoy lost its brakes and crashed into as many as 12 civilian cars and a group of pedestrians, the U.S. military said.

"U.S. soldiers at the scene immediately provided medical assistance to the injured. The injured were taken to local hospitals for treatment. Afghan national security forces also reported to the accident scene," said U.S. Army Col. Tom Collins, a coalition military spokesman in Afghanistan.

An angry crowd gathered around the wreck scene and became hostile, Collins said in a written statement.

"This was a tragic incident and we deeply regret any deaths or injuries resulting from this incident. Although this incident is very regrettable, the coalition remains committed to working together with the Afghan people to build a better future."

He added, "In accordance with appropriate policies, compensation will be paid to those who are entitled."

**the Talking Can** · 05-30-2006, 07:14 PM

mission accomplished....last throes...nothing to talk about....baseball and apple pie

FloridaMan88 · 05-30-2006, 09:31 PM

Sure would be nice if Afghanistan could be our primary military focus. After all this is the country that harbored the leaders of the terrorist group responsible for 9/11.

Too bad Bush is wasting our military nation-building in Iraq

**Dave Lane** · 05-31-2006, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

Sure would be nice if Afghanistan could be our primary military focus. After all this is the country that harbored the leaders of the terrorist group responsible for 9/11.

Too bad Bush is wasting our military nation-building in Iraq

I agree and the really sad thing is if Saddam were still in charge thousands of Iraqis and US persons would still be alive today and Iraq would be far more peaceful than today.

Dave

penchief · 05-31-2006, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

Sure would be nice if Afghanistan could be our primary military focus. After all this is the country that harbored the leaders of the terrorist group responsible for 9/11.

Too bad Bush is wasting our military nation-building in Iraq

Alot of people agree with this. In fact, we probably could have had a shot in Afghanistan of achieving this administration's stated goals for Iraq. Not only did the untimely invasion of Iraq divert valuable resources away from the real target and into a black hole, it's probably helping to undermine any good that was being accomplished in Afghanistan.

The U.S. is still a young country but the misguided invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq will probably go down as America's greatest blunder, IMO.

patteeu · 05-31-2006, 07:01 AM

I think the chances of Afghanistan building a lasting, stable democracy are worse than those of Iraq. Iraq doesn't have to deal with the poppy.

Radar Chief · 05-31-2006, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

mission accomplished....last throes...nothing to talk about....baseball and apple pie

Broken record…..nothing relevant to add……other than more bumper sticker rhetoric.

Radar Chief · 05-31-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

I agree and the really sad thing is if Saddam were still in charge thousands of Iraqis and US persons would still be alive today and Iraq would be far more peaceful than today.

Dave

“More peaceful” for who? Certainly not the majority of Iraqis, or their neighbors.

**the Talking Can** · 05-31-2006, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Broken record…..nothing relevant to add……other than more bumper sticker rhetoric.

you voted for the president...he has no plan, and you have no clue....meanwhile the deaths continue, and even increase...brilliant

**the Talking Can** · 05-31-2006, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

Sure would be nice if Afghanistan could be our primary military focus. After all this is the country that harbored the leaders of the terrorist group responsible for 9/11.

Too bad Bush is wasting our military nation-building in Iraq

imagine if we hadn't diverted resources from Afghanistan to invade Iraq...now we control neither....

Radar Chief · 05-31-2006, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Broken record…..nothing relevant to add……other than more bumper sticker rhetoric.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

you voted for the president...he has no plan, and you have no clue....meanwhile the deaths continue, and even increase...brilliant

Way to prove exactly what I just posted.

**Dave Lane** · 05-31-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

“More peaceful” for who? Certainly not the majority of Iraqis, or their neighbors.

Are you kidding? Do you really believe we have made things better for the Iraqis since the invasion? and their neighbors. There are 30 or so killings every day and its not getting better 3 years after the fact. At least Saddam kept things in check despite killing and torturing some people. Far less than the current rate.

Dave

Radar Chief · 05-31-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Are you kidding? Do you really believe we have made things better for the Iraqis since the invasion? and their neighbors. There are 30 or so killings every day and its not getting better 3 years after the fact. At least Saddam kept things in check despite killing and torturing some people. Far less than the current rate.

Dave

No but apparently you’re perfectly happy be’n misguided.
Outside Baghdad, Iraqis have more electricity and water than ever under Saddam. Even the violence you’ve pointed out is happening in less than 20% of the country.
And Iraq’s neighbors no longer have to deal with a psycho weild’n chemical weapons, and seek’n nuclear ones, that had already invaded two of’em before.
I’m not try’n to claim Iraq is some paradise, but I also recognize that it wasn’t one before, something that seems to shoot right past you.

patteeu · 05-31-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Are you kidding? Do you really believe we have made things better for the Iraqis since the invasion? and their neighbors. There are 30 or so killings every day and its not getting better 3 years after the fact. At least Saddam kept things in check despite killing and torturing some people. Far less than the current rate.

Dave

Do you have any polls that back up what you're saying? The polls I've seen have shown surprising optimism on the part of Iraqis. I haven't seen a poll that asks the question "are you better off now or when Saddam was in power" though (although I'd be surprised if they don't exist).

DanT · 05-31-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

Do you have any polls that back up what you're saying? The polls I've seen have shown surprising optimism on the part of Iraqis. I haven't seen a poll that asks the question "are you better off now or when Saddam was in power" though (although I'd be surprised if they don't exist).

There was a poll conducted for ABC News, Time magazine, the BBC, NHK (Japan) and Der Spiegel (German) by Oxford Research International that asked questions along those lines last year. Here's a link to an ABC News story, which includes links to the poll reports:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1389228

To this question,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poll of Iraqi people

2. Compared to the time before the war in Spring 2003, are things overall in your life much better now, somewhat better, about the same, somewhat worse or much worse?

51% of Iraqis in November, 2005, said they were better off; 19% said things were about the same, and 29% said they were worse off.
In February, 2004, the numbers were 56%/23%/19%.

To the question,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poll of Iraqi people

5. Compared to our country as it was before the war in spring 2003, are things in Iraq overall much better now, somewhat better, about the same, somewhat worse or much worse?

46% of Iraqis in November, 2005, said the country was better off, 13% said it was about the same and 39% said it was worse.

The November, 2005, was a random national sample of 1,711 Iraqis aged 15 and up and has a margin of error of about 2.5%.

05-30-2006, 04:12 PM
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Great now Afganistan is getting pissed.. A bunch of dead in Afgan and Iraq including 3 reporters and not a single thread! Wow what does that say about how accustomed to this we have become? Dave KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Initial results of a U.S. military investigation show the driver of a truck that plowed into civilian cars in Kabul attempted to slow down by hitting the unoccupied vehicles after his truck's brakes failed. The truck crashed Monday into as many as 12 civilian cars and a group of pedestrians, the U.S. military said. The crash sparked anti-U.S. riots swept through the Afghan capital. The Afghan Health Ministry said at least eight people died and 109 were wounded in the unrest. Coalition spokesman Col. Tom Collins, who revealed the initial results at a briefing in Kabul on Tuesday, said the driver was "very experienced in the operation of this type of vehicle, a heavy cargo truck." "(He) applied the primary and emergency brakes and took evasive action to avoid hitting pedestrians, to include hitting several unoccupied parked vehicles in an effort to slow or stop the truck," Collins said. Kabul appeared to be largely quiet Tuesday after an overnight curfew was lifted. CNN's Henry Schuster said NATO and Afghan troops were on the streets of Kabul on Tuesday, but U.S. troops were keeping a low profile and remained on base. There were no reports of gunfire in the capital. Monday's rioting resulted in widespread looting throughout the city as schools, banks and hospitals were ravaged by the crowds. A shopkeeper in the popular Chicken Street shopping district said businesses remained closed Tuesday, but hoped to reopen at midweek. Afghan President Hamid Karzai's office said five people were killed in Monday's vehicle crash. The U.S. military, in a statement issued earlier, said at least one person was killed in the crash and six were wounded, two of them critically. As the rioting spread Monday, the U.S. military headquarters was locked down, and personnel were told to put on full protective gear. Afghan security forces fanned out in hopes of bringing order, but were unable to do so. Video from one rioting site after the crash showed a U.S. military vehicle firing in the direction of a crowd of Afghans. Military officials, after seeing the video, said an investigation was under way. Afghan officials called it the worst day of rioting in Kabul since the fall of the Taliban regime. The office compound of the aid group CARE International was set on fire. Charred computer equipment and papers could be seen on the ground. Throughout Kabul, firefighters were deployed to numerous buildings to control the blazes. Dozens of protesters outside the U.S. Embassy on Monday screamed "Death to Americans!" Embassy spokesman Chris Harris said many embassy personnel were sent to bunkers during the rioting, and were "in secure locations" for about 90 minutes. Personnel have been instructed not to leave the U.S. compound Tuesday, he said. Protesters outside the embassy, and elsewhere in the capital, yelled "Death to Karzai," accusing the president of being a virtual puppet for the United States. A statement from Karzai's office called on Afghans to "remain calm and practice restraint." Although there have frequently been attacks on U.S. military personnel in parts of Afghanistan, such widespread anti-U.S. protests have been unheard of in Kabul since the U.S.-led war ousted the Taliban regime in late 2001. The crash took place Monday morning when a truck in a U.S. military convoy lost its brakes and crashed into as many as 12 civilian cars and a group of pedestrians, the U.S. military said. "U.S. soldiers at the scene immediately provided medical assistance to the injured. The injured were taken to local hospitals for treatment. Afghan national security forces also reported to the accident scene," said U.S. Army Col. Tom Collins, a coalition military spokesman in Afghanistan. An angry crowd gathered around the wreck scene and became hostile, Collins said in a written statement. "This was a tragic incident and we deeply regret any deaths or injuries resulting from this incident. Although this incident is very regrettable, the coalition remains committed to working together with the Afghan people to build a better future." He added, "In accordance with appropriate policies, compensation will be paid to those who are entitled."
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05-30-2006, 07:14 PM	#2
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $10022208	mission accomplished....last throes...nothing to talk about....baseball and apple pie __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

05-30-2006, 09:31 PM	#3
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $2642906	Sure would be nice if Afghanistan could be our primary military focus. After all this is the country that harbored the leaders of the terrorist group responsible for 9/11. Too bad Bush is wasting our military nation-building in Iraq
Posts: 39,147

05-31-2006, 07:01 AM	#6
patteeu The 23rd Pillar Join Date: Sep 2002 Casino cash: $10019237	I think the chances of Afghanistan building a lasting, stable democracy are worse than those of Iraq. Iraq doesn't have to deal with the poppy.
Posts: 110,871