Chiefs JoPo gives Herm one final blow

Hammock Parties · 01-24-2009, 02:13 AM

Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. Who cares if he had to wait a week. He gets $3 million and a vacation. Big ****ing deal. I'm disgusted. The shot at Pioli was unnecessary.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/998818.html
Herm had to go, but the delay was cruel

Scott Pioli really had no choice, and everyone knew it. He had to fire Herm Edwards. He had to give himself a fresh start. He had to start over with his own coach. He had to do it for a hundred different reasons, and Edwards’ 6-26 record the last couple of seasons was only one of them.

So, I’m not sure why it took 10 days for Pioli to pull the trigger. I’m not sure why he left Herm dangling out there for those 10 days while his assistant coaches fled like high school kids on graduation day. I’m not sure why the Chiefs would throw Herm overboard late on a Friday afternoon with a news release and a couple of pointless statements. I’m not sure what it says about an organization that it would treat a loyal man like that. Actually, I’m precisely sure what it says about the Chiefs.

Put it this way: Scott Pioli better win fast. He isn’t winning anyone over with his class.

In the end, I suspect, most people in town won’t care how Scott Pioli fired Herm Edwards, because most people just wanted Herm Edwards fired. Sports is a hard business and a cold game. People forget fast. Just one day earlier, Gunther Cunningham bolted for Detroit, where he gets to coach the one team that had a defense worse than his own. And he did not feel like he could leave without first shifting blame for his defense to Herm.

“I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defenses because I was loyal to Herm Edwards,” Cunningham said. “That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be.”

Key phrase in that statement: “was loyal.”

And how true was the statement anyway? In 2006, when Herm Edwards became head coach, he kept Gunther Cunningham on as his defensive coordinator.

This was despite the fact that the two years before Herm arrived, Cunningham’s defenses finished 31st and 25th in total defense. They weren’t playing zone then — the head coach was Dick Vermeil. and he would let his defensive coordinators do whatever the heck they wanted. Half the time, Vermeil didn’t even know the Chiefs had a defense (and half the time, he was right).

But that’s how it goes in sports: When a man gets down, people will kick. Nobody really wants to rehash this, but Herm Edwards walked into a raging hailstorm when he took over as Chiefs coach in 2006. The Chiefs were the worst kind of football team: They were old and refused to admit it. The Chiefs also had a uniquely inflated view of themselves, considering they had been to the playoffs exactly one time in eight years. Before Edwards coached his first game, his star left tackle, Willie Roaf, retired (even as the Chiefs begged him to come back). In Edwards’ first game, his quarterback, Trent Green, got knocked unconscious and he was never again an effective NFL quarterback. And, as already noted, the defense was awful.

Somehow, Edwards coaxed that team to a 9-7 record — that “zone” defense actually improved the Chiefs to 16th in defense — and they won an improbable playoff spot. True, the Chiefs promptly were humiliated by Indianapolis; but I’ve always thought that only made Edwards’ coaching job more impressive. As the old Groucho Marx line goes: How that team got into the playoffs, I’ll never know.

It was then that Edwards pleaded with people behind the scenes to let him blow things up. He knew the Chiefs were about to collapse. The secondary was ancient, and the offensive line was old enough to be the secondary’s father, and Larry Johnson was going to be tough to deal with, and Will Shields retired and the quarterback situation was a mess — and yes, Edwards could see it coming. But Chiefs president Carl Peterson was not ready to blow up anything. He did not even want to use the word rebuilding.

So, Edwards played the good soldier. He put his team in position to win games. The Chiefs were actually 4-3 at one point. And then, Larry Johnson got hurt, and reality set in and the Chiefs lost their last nine games.

Then Edwards was asked, finally, to blow things up. And the Chiefs did. They spent hardly any money in 2008 — they were $30 million under the salary cap. Edwards went to camp with rookies and free agents and guys who happened to be driving by River Falls and a couple of people who were in town for a wedding. Then a bunch of those guys got hurt, and the Chiefs added people named Wallace Gilberry and Rocky Boiman and Curtis Gatewood. The season went badly.

And this is not to say that Edwards did a great coaching job — he patently did not. There are no arguments after a 2-14 season. Many of the complaints people have about his game management are perfectly valid. But he did do what the Chiefs asked. He did fight through a season with an understaffed team. He did have his team competitive in numerous games. He did play the rookies and the kids, giving them experience. If Edwards was right about some of these players — if he was right about Branden Albert and Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr and some of the other recent picks — then the Chiefs might improve quickly. If he was wrong, well, we’ll find that out quickly, too.

But the point is that he did give his life to the Chiefs the last three years. He did a lot of difficult and unpleasant things to make the Chiefs better. He did not deserve to twist in the wind. Sure, Pioli had to fire him, everyone could see that coming a week and a half ago. That’s why it should have happened a week and a half ago.

Edwards deserved that, at least.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 01-24-2009, 02:14 AM

I guess it's to hard too fathom that Scott needed to make sure he would have a replacement this late in the game before letting Herm go.

DaWolf · 01-24-2009, 02:22 AM

JoPo at least makes a great point about Gunther. But give me a break with Herm. The guy is getting paid 4 mil a year, he just led this team to 6 wins in 2 seasons, and he can't spare 10 days to provide info to Pioli on the team and his thoughts on why the players failed or succeeded? Give me a break Joe...

Mecca · 01-24-2009, 02:22 AM

I'm sorry to inform Jopo of this, most markets aren't the nice friendly circle jerk that KC has become, Pioli has spent his entire career on the east coast...

There's a difference in class and being a market where no one ever really being held accountable is considered classy.

Personally I like the style Pioli brings from the east coast that has won, it's better than this shit that's been going on here.

Hammock Parties · 01-24-2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

JoPo at least makes a great point about Gunther. But give me a break with Herm. The guy is getting paid 4 mil a year, he just led this team to 6 wins in 2 seasons, and he can't spare 10 days to provide info to Pioli on the team and his thoughts on why the players failed or succeeded? Give me a break Joe...

It just ****ing dazzles me how Herm can win over the media.

At least he's gone. Gone before he reached comfortable mediocrity and they really started loving him.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 01-24-2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'm sorry to inform Jopo of this, most markets aren't the nice friendly circle jerk that KC has become, Pioli has spent his entire career on the east coast...

There's a difference in class and being a market where no one ever really being held accountable is considered classy.

Personally I like the style Pioli brings from the east coast that has won, it's better than this shit that's been going on here.

I don't know how the planet is going to handle an optimistic Mecca. Tread carefully young man.

Mecca · 01-24-2009, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

I don't know how the planet is going to handle an optimistic Mecca. Tread carefully young man.

LOL, I've been a member of this forum since 05, I'm optimistic when I feel there is reason to be..the last few years of Chiefs ball haven't really been good for optimism to reign.

I really don't think I'm anymore optimistic than I am negative I'm just honest about what I think.

**pr_capone** · 01-24-2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

It just ****ing dazzles me how Herm can win over the media.

At least he's gone. Gone before he reached comfortable mediocrity and we really started loving him.

FYP

Hammock Parties · 01-24-2009, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr_capone

FYP

Yeah, you're right. I would have been suckered, too. It took 6-26 to knock some sense into me.

Mecca · 01-24-2009, 02:30 AM

Of course the media loves Herm he always has something to say, in all likely hood if we met Herm Edwards as a person we'd probably like him.

Being ignorant or incompetent as a head coach doesn't make him a bad person it just makes him bad at his job.

And for some reason in this market him being a good person atleast to Jopo has always outweighed how good he was at his job, he's like that with everyone.

Extra Point · 01-24-2009, 02:34 AM

What Pioli did was methodically prepare himself. When did he get hired? Silence was a necessity. Herm put Trent Green on the spit for months. Paybacks are Hell? Herm's getting paid a lot, anyway.

Next up: New HC

ChiefRon · 01-24-2009, 02:40 AM

I liked Herm too. I thought he was a class act and knew how to motivate players. But like Pioli during his intro conference, there's not much else I can say positive about.

Didn't like his approach of keeping it close & trying to win it in the end.
Didn't like his gameday skills / halftime adjustments (or lack thereof)
Didn't like his inability to be creative on defense based on the talent

etc...

Let the new era begin...

kcxiv · 01-24-2009, 03:27 AM

KC star guys are just pissed that they cant get any info leak and that guys like Michael Smith and Mortenson are breaking the scoops. They are left out in the cold now. I sense they are going to not like Pioli becuase he will tell them absolutely nothing.

kcxiv · 01-24-2009, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefRon

I liked Herm too. I thought he was a class act and knew how to motivate players. But like Pioli during his intro conference, there's not much else I can say positive about.

Didn't like his approach of keeping it close & trying to win it in the end.
Didn't like his gameday skills / halftime adjustments (or lack thereof)
Didn't like his inability to be creative on defense based on the talent

etc...

Let the new era begin...

I didnt hate Herm, i think he's a pretty decent fellow. He's pretty strong minded imo, but i just dont think he's a top tier head coach and thats what KC needs. He's probably best as a DB coach, a scout, or on NFL live. lol

T-post Tom · 01-24-2009, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

...The guy is getting paid 4 mil a year, he just led this team to 6 wins in 2 seasons, and he can't spare 10 days to provide info to Pioli on the team and his thoughts on why the players failed or succeeded? Give me a break Joe...

this.

01-24-2009, 02:13 AM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $710478	JoPo gives Herm one final blow Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. Who cares if he had to wait a week. He gets $3 million and a vacation. Big **ing deal. I'm disgusted. The shot at Pioli was unnecessary. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/998818.html Herm had to go, but the delay was cruel** Scott Pioli really had no choice, and everyone knew it. He had to fire Herm Edwards. He had to give himself a fresh start. He had to start over with his own coach. He had to do it for a hundred different reasons, and Edwards’ 6-26 record the last couple of seasons was only one of them. So, I’m not sure why it took 10 days for Pioli to pull the trigger. I’m not sure why he left Herm dangling out there for those 10 days while his assistant coaches fled like high school kids on graduation day. I’m not sure why the Chiefs would throw Herm overboard late on a Friday afternoon with a news release and a couple of pointless statements. I’m not sure what it says about an organization that it would treat a loyal man like that. Actually, I’m precisely sure what it says about the Chiefs. Put it this way: Scott Pioli better win fast. He isn’t winning anyone over with his class. In the end, I suspect, most people in town won’t care how Scott Pioli fired Herm Edwards, because most people just wanted Herm Edwards fired. Sports is a hard business and a cold game. People forget fast. Just one day earlier, Gunther Cunningham bolted for Detroit, where he gets to coach the one team that had a defense worse than his own. And he did not feel like he could leave without first shifting blame for his defense to Herm. “I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defenses because I was loyal to Herm Edwards,” Cunningham said. “That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be.” Key phrase in that statement: “was loyal.” And how true was the statement anyway? In 2006, when Herm Edwards became head coach, he kept Gunther Cunningham on as his defensive coordinator. This was despite the fact that the two years before Herm arrived, Cunningham’s defenses finished 31st and 25th in total defense. They weren’t playing zone then — the head coach was Dick Vermeil. and he would let his defensive coordinators do whatever the heck they wanted. Half the time, Vermeil didn’t even know the Chiefs had a defense (and half the time, he was right). But that’s how it goes in sports: When a man gets down, people will kick. Nobody really wants to rehash this, but Herm Edwards walked into a raging hailstorm when he took over as Chiefs coach in 2006. The Chiefs were the worst kind of football team: They were old and refused to admit it. The Chiefs also had a uniquely inflated view of themselves, considering they had been to the playoffs exactly one time in eight years. Before Edwards coached his first game, his star left tackle, Willie Roaf, retired (even as the Chiefs begged him to come back). In Edwards’ first game, his quarterback, Trent Green, got knocked unconscious and he was never again an effective NFL quarterback. And, as already noted, the defense was awful. Somehow, Edwards coaxed that team to a 9-7 record — that “zone” defense actually improved the Chiefs to 16th in defense — and they won an improbable playoff spot. True, the Chiefs promptly were humiliated by Indianapolis; but I’ve always thought that only made Edwards’ coaching job more impressive. As the old Groucho Marx line goes: How that team got into the playoffs, I’ll never know. It was then that Edwards pleaded with people behind the scenes to let him blow things up. He knew the Chiefs were about to collapse. The secondary was ancient, and the offensive line was old enough to be the secondary’s father, and Larry Johnson was going to be tough to deal with, and Will Shields retired and the quarterback situation was a mess — and yes, Edwards could see it coming. But Chiefs president Carl Peterson was not ready to blow up anything. He did not even want to use the word rebuilding. So, Edwards played the good soldier. He put his team in position to win games. The Chiefs were actually 4-3 at one point. And then, Larry Johnson got hurt, and reality set in and the Chiefs lost their last nine games. Then Edwards was asked, finally, to blow things up. And the Chiefs did. They spent hardly any money in 2008 — they were $30 million under the salary cap. Edwards went to camp with rookies and free agents and guys who happened to be driving by River Falls and a couple of people who were in town for a wedding. Then a bunch of those guys got hurt, and the Chiefs added people named Wallace Gilberry and Rocky Boiman and Curtis Gatewood. The season went badly. And this is not to say that Edwards did a great coaching job — he patently did not. There are no arguments after a 2-14 season. Many of the complaints people have about his game management are perfectly valid. But he did do what the Chiefs asked. He did fight through a season with an understaffed team. He did have his team competitive in numerous games. He did play the rookies and the kids, giving them experience. If Edwards was right about some of these players — if he was right about Branden Albert and Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr and some of the other recent picks — then the Chiefs might improve quickly. If he was wrong, well, we’ll find that out quickly, too. But the point is that he did give his life to the Chiefs the last three years. He did a lot of difficult and unpleasant things to make the Chiefs better. He did not deserve to twist in the wind. Sure, Pioli had to fire him, everyone could see that coming a week and a half ago. That’s why it should have happened a week and a half ago. Edwards deserved that, at least.
Posts: 297,626

01-24-2009, 02:22 AM	#3
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	JoPo at least makes a great point about Gunther. But give me a break with Herm. The guy is getting paid 4 mil a year, he just led this team to 6 wins in 2 seasons, and he can't spare 10 days to provide info to Pioli on the team and his thoughts on why the players failed or succeeded? Give me a break Joe...
Posts: 6,798

01-24-2009, 02:22 AM	#4
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-782950	I'm sorry to inform Jopo of this, most markets aren't the nice friendly circle jerk that KC has become, Pioli has spent his entire career on the east coast... There's a difference in class and being a market where no one ever really being held accountable is considered classy. Personally I like the style Pioli brings from the east coast that has won, it's better than this shit that's been going on here.
Posts: 115,406

01-24-2009, 02:30 AM	#10
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-782950	Of course the media loves Herm he always has something to say, in all likely hood if we met Herm Edwards as a person we'd probably like him. Being ignorant or incompetent as a head coach doesn't make him a bad person it just makes him bad at his job. And for some reason in this market him being a good person atleast to Jopo has always outweighed how good he was at his job, he's like that with everyone.
Posts: 115,406

01-24-2009, 02:34 AM	#11
Extra Point MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Prairie Village, KS Casino cash: $10004900	What Pioli did was methodically prepare himself. When did he get hired? Silence was a necessity. Herm put Trent Green on the spit for months. Paybacks are Hell? Herm's getting paid a lot, anyway. Next up: New HC __________________ "Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." --Satchel Paige
Posts: 7,845

01-24-2009, 02:40 AM	#12
ChiefRon Starter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Memphis, TN Casino cash: $10004900	I liked Herm too. I thought he was a class act and knew how to motivate players. But like Pioli during his intro conference, there's not much else I can say positive about. Didn't like his approach of keeping it close & trying to win it in the end. Didn't like his gameday skills / halftime adjustments (or lack thereof) Didn't like his inability to be creative on defense based on the talent etc... Let the new era begin...
Posts: 924

01-24-2009, 03:27 AM	#13
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8697996	KC star guys are just pissed that they cant get any info leak and that guys like Michael Smith and Mortenson are breaking the scoops. They are left out in the cold now. I sense they are going to not like Pioli becuase he will tell them absolutely nothing.
Posts: 29,111