OLB / Pass rushers in the draft

Ralphy Boy · 02-14-2010, 04:04 PM

Okay, same as the Center thread.

Looking for the best all around OLB prospects with an emphasis on pass rush. We cannot go into another season without upgrading the 31st ranked pass rush. Every team with a worse record, and drafting above us, had more sacks. That's good news and bad, with the bad being that there isn't a top 5 pass rusher so the best pass rushers in this draft will likely be gone before the 2nd round.

This is a collaborative effort so I'm looking for input on not only good draft prospects but also what makes a great OLB. It cannot just focus on pass rush, so what else do you consider key factors that a team looks at? One thought on teams looking for LB help is that if you look at the # of runs of 20+ yards and we had 15, which is the 7th worst in the league, you'd typically find bad teams with poor LB situations.

Who are the best fits here and where are they likely to be drafted? Feel free to post profiles and scouting reports as well as any news on the players and whatever you know about them from seeing them play.

Al Bundy · 02-14-2010, 04:05 PM

Jerry Hughes. Not sure if he will be available in the 2nd for the Chiefs, though.

Ralphy Boy · 02-14-2010, 04:06 PM

Teams in need of pass rushing help based on 2010 sacks:
Jacksonville - 14 sacks
St Louis - 25 sacks
Detroit - 26
Tampa, Atlanta & Seattle -28
Houston - 30
New England & Carolina - 31
Titans, Bills, Giants, Ravens & Jets - 32

Worst passing defense, rank and # of passing yards allowed:
Detroit # 32, 4,249
Tennessee # 31 4,139
Seattle # 30 3,927
Cleveland #29 3,915
Atlanta #28 3,871
Jax #27 3,774
New Orleans # 26 3,769
St Louis # 25 3,764
Miami #24 3,754
Arizona #23 3,739
KC #22 3,707
San Fran #21 3,670

Who knows how these teams feel about the players on their roster and how much of an interest, i.e. 1st or 2nd round, they have in specifically drafting to address this need? Seriously, I'm asking and would like to know.

I'd have to think Jax, Carolina & New England will definitely be in the hunt and probably in the first round.
Teams worse than us in terms of 20+ yard runs allowed: Bucs 25, Raiders 19, Lions 18, Bills 18, Broncos 17, Giants 17. Only 1 of those teams had a Pro Bowl LB and it was Denver with Dumervil and we all know he was there because of his sack total. Furthermore, none of those teams made the playoffs.

Ralphy Boy · 02-14-2010, 04:16 PM

From Sporting News:

Best pass rusher: Brandon Graham, Michigan. He easily was the most impressive defensive end this week. He showed great power and speed coming off the edge as well as the diverse pass-rush arsenal needed to keep offensive tackles on their heels.

From CBS Sports:

Michigan's Brandon Graham claimed MVP honors. The defensive end was arguably the most unstoppable player in practice. The LaMarr Woodley/Elvis Dumervil clone is a potential Pro Bowl-caliber pass rusher. He could slip out of the first round (as both Woodley and Dumervil did) only because scouts are hesitant to invest such a high pick in a 6-1 pass rusher. His MVP performance (five tackles, two sacks, one forced fumble) hardly came as a surprise. Other players who didn't make positive impressions before the Senior Bowl were able to leave Mobile on a high note with strong showings in the game.

OLB Dekoda Watson, Florida State: The NFL loves speedy linebackers -- and Watson showed plenty of speed Saturday. He displayed better agility and instincts in coverage than he had earlier in the week. His most impressive play came early in the third quarter when the game was still tight. Playing his customary strong-side position on third-and-1, Watson fought off a block by tight end Garrett Graham (Wisconsin) and beat Fresno State running back Lonyae Miller to the sideline. Miller projects to run the 40-yard dash in the 4.4 range. Watson showed tremendous closing speed and strong hands to make the pull-down tackle and force a punt.

More:
OLB Koa Misi, Utah: Scouts are always looking for athletic defensive ends capable of making the transition to the rush linebacker position, and they've found one in Misi. A better athlete than his former Ute teammate, Paul Kruger, Misi could match the Baltimore Raven's final draft slot - and hear his name called in the second round.

Mr. Laz · 02-14-2010, 04:23 PM

Graham is best pass rusher as ROLB in a 3-4
Jerry Hughes would be a good LOLB in a 3-4

Hughes still has some work to do in pass coverage but he has the speed and quickness imo. He's very strong at the POA and can beat most RT's without needing to commit to the outside which still allows him to hold contain strong side.

if we get graham then Hali would move to the left side and replace Vrabel. If we get Hughes then Hali would stay on the right and Hughes would take Vrabel's place. Just imo.

**AustinChief** · 02-14-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

Graham is best pass rusher as ROLB in a 3-4
Jerry Hughes would be a good LOLB in a 3-4

Hughes still has some work to do in pass coverage but he has the speed and quickness imo. He's very strong at the POA and can beat most RT's without needing to commit to the outside which still allows him to hold contain strong side.

if we get graham then Hali would move to the left side and replace Vrabel. If we get Hughes then Hali would stay on the right and Hughes would take Vrabel's place. Just imo.

Flip that and you are correct...

Graham is more likely to play LOLB if we drafted him (ala Lamarr Woodley)... Hughes is more of a toss up.

Either way, they are both fantastic upgrades to either spot.

Ralphy Boy · 02-14-2010, 04:32 PM

A few weeks ago, I went thru a bunch of sites and compared how they ranked the OLB class by averaging their grade. The sites were CDS Draft, Draft Countdown, Great Blue North, NFL.com Mayock.

Here's how they stacked up:
1 Sergio Kindle Texas
2 S. Weatherspoon Missouri
3 Navarro Bowman Penn State
4 Eric Norwood South Carolina
5 Jerry Hughes TCU
6 Daryl Washington TCU
7 Ricky Sapp Clemson
8 O'Brien Scholfield Wisconsin
9 Willie Young Florida State

Here is a ranking of the top pass rushing OLB's from NFL Draft Dog:
1. Jerry Hughes, TCU
2. Jason Pierre-Paul, South Florida (JR)
3. Sergio Kindle, Texas
4. Brandon Graham, Michigan
5. Ricky Sapp, Clemson
6. O' Brien Schofield, Wisconsin (Injured)
7. Eric Norwood, South Carolina
8. Willie Young, NC State
9. Antonio Coleman, Auburn
10. Jermaine Cunningham, Florida
11 Jason Worilds, Virginia Tech (JR)
12. Thadeus Gibson, Ohio State (JR)
13. Brandon Lang, Troy
14. Lindsey Witten, Uconn
15. Jammie Kirlew, Indiana
16. Cameron Sheffield, Troy
17. Arthur Moats, James Madison
18. Jarvis Geathers, Central Florida
19. Adrian Tracy, William & Marry
20. Raheem Alem, LSU
21. Eric Mocur, Miami (Fl)
22. Will Tukuafu, Oregon
23. Frank Zombo, Central Michigan
24. Korey Bosworth, UCLA
25. Chris McCoy, Middle Tennessee State
26. Eugene Sims, West Texas A&M
27. John Ryan, Notre Dame

Ralphy Boy · 02-14-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Either way, they are both fantastic upgrades to either spot.

So you think both are an upgrade over Tamba?

Ralphy Boy · 02-14-2010, 04:36 PM

OLB ranking, again from DraftDog:
1. Navorro Bowman, Penn State (JR)
2. Pat Angerer, Iowa
3. Rennie Curran, Georgia (JR)
4. Rico McCoy, Tennessee
5. Clinton Snyder, Stanford
6. Dakota Watson, FSU
7. Keenan Clayton, Oklahoma
8. Thadeus Gibson, Ohio State (JR)
9. A.J. Edds, Iowa
10. Reggie Carter, UCLA
11. Elijah Hodge, Wisconsin
12. Kyle Bosworth, UCLA
13. Mike Mayberry, Indiana
14. Jason Beauchamp, UNLV
15. Patrick Lavine, Olahoma State
16. Cam Martin, Virginia Tech
17. Phillip Dillard, Nebraska
18. Will Patterson, Indiana
19. Daryl Washington, TCU
20. Kavell Conner, Clemson

Mr. Laz · 02-14-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Flip that and you are correct...

Graham is more likely to play LOLB if we drafted him (ala Lamarr Woodley)... Hughes is more of a toss up.

Either way, they are both fantastic upgrades to either spot.

are you looking from the offensive side (right/life) or the defense?

right now Tamba Hali plays ROLB

Graham would play that position to speed rush the blind side of the QB

Jerry Hughes would play LOLB beside Tyson Jackson ... the tradition strong side of the offense. He would Power rush the QB on that side.

**AustinChief** · 02-14-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

are you looking from the offensive side (right/life) or the defense?

right now Tamba Hali plays ROLB

Graham would play that position to speed rush the blind side of the QB

Jerry Hughes would play LOLB beside Tyson Jackson ... the tradition strong side of the offense. He would Power rush the QB on that side.

I think you have the two players confused in your head.. Graham is much stronger than Hughes and much much better vs the run... like Woodley, he is a perfect fit on the LOLB spot replacing Vrabel... Hughes is more of a speed guy and is often compared to a Suggs type ROLB.

BUT as I said.. either is an upgrade playing at either spot...

**AustinChief** · 02-14-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

are you looking from the offensive side (right/life) or the defense?

right now Tamba Hali plays ROLB

Graham would play that position to speed rush the blind side of the QB

Jerry Hughes would play LOLB beside Tyson Jackson ... the tradition strong side of the offense. He would Power rush the QB on that side.

Not really his strength, that is more something Graham fits for and since he is more of a natural LB... he can be asked to do more from that spot where Hughes or someone like Kindle can concentrate of rushing the passer. Hughes is a converted RB... making him a true LB is more of a chore than it is for someone like Graham.

Mr. Laz · 02-14-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I think you have the two players confused in your head.. Graham is much stronger than Hughes and much much better vs the run... like Woodley, he is a perfect fit on the LOLB spot replacing Vrabel... Hughes is more of a speed guy and is often compared to a Suggs type ROLB.

BUT as I said.. either is an upgrade playing at either spot...

dude ... we have the exact opposite idea of these guys.

Jerry Hughes has played over the offense right tackle all year and he is pretty much a power guy although he has some quickness too. Kinda like Suggs a little bit only with more power imo ... actually more quickness too.

Brandon Graham plays over the offensive left tackle and it more of a Dwight Freeney type guy.

Mr. Laz · 02-14-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

BUT as I said.. either is an upgrade playing at either spot...

i would take both

that would be quite a 2nd round imo

**AustinChief** · 02-14-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

dude ... we have the exact opposite idea of these guys.

Jerry Hughes has played over the offense right tackle all year and he is pretty much a power guy although he has some quickness too. Kinda like Suggs a little bit only with more power imo ... actually more quickness too.

Brandon Graham plays over the offensive left tackle and it more of a Dwight Freeney type guy.

I respectfully disagree.. although you are right on where they have been played in college... neither is projected on those sides in the NFL.

Graham is NOT a Freeney type at all, he excels versus the run and is much more powerful...

Hughes is alot like Suggs but with more speed... and Suggs plays ROLB

There are 3 (projected) OLBs that I have watched all of their games and it's Graham(I am a U-M fan), Kindle (I live in Austin) and Hughes(my stepdad is a season ticket holder for TCU and I have had a soft spot for them since 7th grade... long story)

Hughes and Kindle are much more speed guys than someone like Graham... but hell, I could be wrong... I just know what I think I saw and what I think is their best fits at the next level.

02-14-2010, 04:04 PM
Ralphy Boy MVP Join Date: Aug 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	OLB / Pass rushers in the draft Okay, same as the Center thread. Looking for the best all around OLB prospects with an emphasis on pass rush. We cannot go into another season without upgrading the 31st ranked pass rush. Every team with a worse record, and drafting above us, had more sacks. That's good news and bad, with the bad being that there isn't a top 5 pass rusher so the best pass rushers in this draft will likely be gone before the 2nd round. This is a collaborative effort so I'm looking for input on not only good draft prospects but also what makes a great OLB. It cannot just focus on pass rush, so what else do you consider key factors that a team looks at? One thought on teams looking for LB help is that if you look at the # of runs of 20+ yards and we had 15, which is the 7th worst in the league, you'd typically find bad teams with poor LB situations. Who are the best fits here and where are they likely to be drafted? Feel free to post profiles and scouting reports as well as any news on the players and whatever you know about them from seeing them play.
Posts: 5,088

02-14-2010, 04:06 PM	#3
Ralphy Boy MVP Join Date: Aug 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	Teams in need of pass rushing help based on 2010 sacks: Jacksonville - 14 sacks St Louis - 25 sacks Detroit - 26 Tampa, Atlanta & Seattle -28 Houston - 30 New England & Carolina - 31 Titans, Bills, Giants, Ravens & Jets - 32 Worst passing defense, rank and # of passing yards allowed: Detroit # 32, 4,249 Tennessee # 31 4,139 Seattle # 30 3,927 Cleveland #29 3,915 Atlanta #28 3,871 Jax #27 3,774 New Orleans # 26 3,769 St Louis # 25 3,764 Miami #24 3,754 Arizona #23 3,739 KC #22 3,707 San Fran #21 3,670 Who knows how these teams feel about the players on their roster and how much of an interest, i.e. 1st or 2nd round, they have in specifically drafting to address this need? Seriously, I'm asking and would like to know. I'd have to think Jax, Carolina & New England will definitely be in the hunt and probably in the first round. Teams worse than us in terms of 20+ yard runs allowed: Bucs 25, Raiders 19, Lions 18, Bills 18, Broncos 17, Giants 17. Only 1 of those teams had a Pro Bowl LB and it was Denver with Dumervil and we all know he was there because of his sack total. Furthermore, none of those teams made the playoffs.
Posts: 5,088

02-14-2010, 04:16 PM	#4
Ralphy Boy MVP Join Date: Aug 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	From Sporting News: Best pass rusher: Brandon Graham, Michigan. He easily was the most impressive defensive end this week. He showed great power and speed coming off the edge as well as the diverse pass-rush arsenal needed to keep offensive tackles on their heels. From CBS Sports: Michigan's Brandon Graham claimed MVP honors. The defensive end was arguably the most unstoppable player in practice. The LaMarr Woodley/Elvis Dumervil clone is a potential Pro Bowl-caliber pass rusher. He could slip out of the first round (as both Woodley and Dumervil did) only because scouts are hesitant to invest such a high pick in a 6-1 pass rusher. His MVP performance (five tackles, two sacks, one forced fumble) hardly came as a surprise. Other players who didn't make positive impressions before the Senior Bowl were able to leave Mobile on a high note with strong showings in the game. OLB Dekoda Watson, Florida State: The NFL loves speedy linebackers -- and Watson showed plenty of speed Saturday. He displayed better agility and instincts in coverage than he had earlier in the week. His most impressive play came early in the third quarter when the game was still tight. Playing his customary strong-side position on third-and-1, Watson fought off a block by tight end Garrett Graham (Wisconsin) and beat Fresno State running back Lonyae Miller to the sideline. Miller projects to run the 40-yard dash in the 4.4 range. Watson showed tremendous closing speed and strong hands to make the pull-down tackle and force a punt. More: OLB Koa Misi, Utah: Scouts are always looking for athletic defensive ends capable of making the transition to the rush linebacker position, and they've found one in Misi. A better athlete than his former Ute teammate, Paul Kruger, Misi could match the Baltimore Raven's final draft slot - and hear his name called in the second round.
Posts: 5,088

02-14-2010, 04:23 PM	#5
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	Graham is best pass rusher as ROLB in a 3-4 Jerry Hughes would be a good LOLB in a 3-4 Hughes still has some work to do in pass coverage but he has the speed and quickness imo. He's very strong at the POA and can beat most RT's without needing to commit to the outside which still allows him to hold contain strong side. if we get graham then Hali would move to the left side and replace Vrabel. If we get Hughes then Hali would stay on the right and Hughes would take Vrabel's place. Just imo. __________________
Posts: 95,626

02-14-2010, 04:32 PM	#7
Ralphy Boy MVP Join Date: Aug 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	A few weeks ago, I went thru a bunch of sites and compared how they ranked the OLB class by averaging their grade. The sites were CDS Draft, Draft Countdown, Great Blue North, NFL.com Mayock. Here's how they stacked up: 1 Sergio Kindle Texas 2 S. Weatherspoon Missouri 3 Navarro Bowman Penn State 4 Eric Norwood South Carolina 5 Jerry Hughes TCU 6 Daryl Washington TCU 7 Ricky Sapp Clemson 8 O'Brien Scholfield Wisconsin 9 Willie Young Florida State Here is a ranking of the top pass rushing OLB's from NFL Draft Dog: 1. Jerry Hughes, TCU 2. Jason Pierre-Paul, South Florida (JR) 3. Sergio Kindle, Texas 4. Brandon Graham, Michigan 5. Ricky Sapp, Clemson 6. O' Brien Schofield, Wisconsin (Injured) 7. Eric Norwood, South Carolina 8. Willie Young, NC State 9. Antonio Coleman, Auburn 10. Jermaine Cunningham, Florida 11 Jason Worilds, Virginia Tech (JR) 12. Thadeus Gibson, Ohio State (JR) 13. Brandon Lang, Troy 14. Lindsey Witten, Uconn 15. Jammie Kirlew, Indiana 16. Cameron Sheffield, Troy 17. Arthur Moats, James Madison 18. Jarvis Geathers, Central Florida 19. Adrian Tracy, William & Marry 20. Raheem Alem, LSU 21. Eric Mocur, Miami (Fl) 22. Will Tukuafu, Oregon 23. Frank Zombo, Central Michigan 24. Korey Bosworth, UCLA 25. Chris McCoy, Middle Tennessee State 26. Eugene Sims, West Texas A&M 27. John Ryan, Notre Dame
Posts: 5,088

02-14-2010, 04:05 PM	#2
Al Bundy Damnit Peg Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $3371831	Jerry Hughes. Not sure if he will be available in the 2nd for the Chiefs, though.
Posts: 23,647

02-14-2010, 04:36 PM	#9
Ralphy Boy MVP Join Date: Aug 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	OLB ranking, again from DraftDog: 1. Navorro Bowman, Penn State (JR) 2. Pat Angerer, Iowa 3. Rennie Curran, Georgia (JR) 4. Rico McCoy, Tennessee 5. Clinton Snyder, Stanford 6. Dakota Watson, FSU 7. Keenan Clayton, Oklahoma 8. Thadeus Gibson, Ohio State (JR) 9. A.J. Edds, Iowa 10. Reggie Carter, UCLA 11. Elijah Hodge, Wisconsin 12. Kyle Bosworth, UCLA 13. Mike Mayberry, Indiana 14. Jason Beauchamp, UNLV 15. Patrick Lavine, Olahoma State 16. Cam Martin, Virginia Tech 17. Phillip Dillard, Nebraska 18. Will Patterson, Indiana 19. Daryl Washington, TCU 20. Kavell Conner, Clemson
Posts: 5,088