Chiefs Why I support Todd Haley

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 06:46 PM

I know this is going to get me shit. Fire away.

If it's true that Haley pushed back on Tyson Jackson, that tells you everything you need to know. Scott Pioli did NOT build a team around his head coach. He forced his coach to run the only system he knows. Know why Haley called Jackson a "system player"? Because Tyson Jackson is only a 3-4 DE in a 2-gap, Romeo 3-4. Does any NFL team run this defense anymore? Even the Patriots don't.

Case study. What defense is Thomas Dimitroff running in Atlanta? You guessed it. A 4-3. That's because good GMs adjust their philosophy to fit the coach.

Look at the new candidates for head coach. It's going to be from the tree. You know how I know that? 1) because Pioli has shown croneyism this entire time. 2) because he is so stuck on one offensive and defensive philosophy that he needs to hire a coach who follows his marching orders.

Not only should we question if the 2-gap 3-4 defense is obsolete. We have to question why Pioli would expect Haley to make a complete transition to a new defense requiring totally different personnel and turn that around in 3 years.

How about the obvious? Pioli is the guy who scouted Cassel for years and believed he was the long-term starter. In 3 years, the only QBs he brought in to compete for the starting job were Tyler Palko (probably Haley's choice, but that doesn't mean Pioli didn't have the power to bring a competitive veteran option in) and a 5th round pick he waited 3 years to bring in. Fail.

How about the second-most obvious? Pioli forced Haley to run a 3-4 and didn't in 3 years even try to bring in a Nose Tackle.

People may get on Haley's case for not getting along with Charlie Weis. It sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start and credit Whitlock for being the only guy to figure that out. Pioli has ultimate say, but if Haley flat-out didn't want to work with the guy, then don't bring him in. Pioli has to have at least some consideration for what Haley wants. And now, because of that, haley ends up looking like the asshole.

The Chiefs are finding a convenient time to fire Haley because people hate the Palko decision. First of all, his choice was Palko or a 5th round rookie. Second of all, it sounds like haley's job was pretty much gone well before Palko started a game. So no... not convinced at all that Haley starts Palko if he knows his job is safe. I wouldn't even be surprised if that was just a big **** you after a while.

In 3 years, Scott Pioli forces Haley to completely change his defense and doesn't spend a dime to help him out.
People say the Chiefs' effort was inconsistent. I call bullshit. This team had so many talent gaps that the only way they could win was with effort. Given the Chiefs' talent, especially at the most critical positions, it's amazing they won as many games the past 2 years as they did. You give Haley the Chargers' talent, and he takes them to the top. Not every team is going to play 100% every single game. The difference is that the best teams have enough talent that they can win even when the other team outplays them.

The Chiefs brought in Kyle Orton. I was okay with that move as a 1-2 year decision. But let's be serious about one thing... that's a pretty telltale sign that Pioli is bringing in McDaniels.

Haley's job was to coach up players. Many players under his watch who had any kind of upside really improved.

I don't like the snake-like tactics we're seeing from our front office. It sounds like they were leaking stories about Haley to discredit him. Between the Lil Wayne concert and the party before the Bears game (after a win, mind you).
We've seen firey Haley before. Even with big efforts in Chicago and Pittsburgh, it looked like he just didn't have any fire. I think he knew he was through and the front office was just waiting for a chance to fire him.

He's a young coach. He's going to make mistakes. The beginning of the season was a horrible mistake. But that's not one mistake that should get you fired.

Flame away. I want to know... if the GM let Haley run a defense he wanted to run, have some input on his coordinator, actually gave Haley good QBs to work with... how would we have fared? And how comfortable do people feel that the grand vision for this team as long as Pioli is here is this exact New England approach that even New England isn't using anymore?

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 06:49 PM

Amen brutha! **** Pioli and Clark. It should have been Pioli instead...

HoneyBadger · 12-12-2011, 06:49 PM

Like Nick Wright said:

If Pioli was planning a road trip and he had a set of directions and Haley wanted to take a shortcut or a different path, and they got lost because they took this new path, the blame would fall on Haley.

I think it is a pretty good analogy, if Haley would have just been a puppet for Pioli he would still have his job.

Pasta Little Brioni · 12-12-2011, 06:50 PM

Horrible game day decisions, the team being unprepared at the start of the season and being blown to oblivion 5 times this year is enough to get anyone fired. Sorry.

**the Talking Can** · 12-12-2011, 06:51 PM

haley was fired, fyi...

Titty Meat · 12-12-2011, 06:51 PM

Why Nobody cares.

FloridaMan88 · 12-12-2011, 06:51 PM

Bill Muir.

Enough reason to shit can Haley.

BoneKrusher · 12-12-2011, 06:52 PM

Running Weis off did it for Me,
**** Haley!

**DeezNutz** · 12-12-2011, 06:52 PM

How many times this year did we hear Haley say that his team wasn't well prepared? Answer: too many times.

He needed to be fired. That said, Pioli and Cassel are far bigger problems.

Start Croyle · 12-12-2011, 06:53 PM

Chiefzilla, you are a smart fan! This post is actually reasonable and makes sense!

It's too bad that so many fans (and GMs!) only follow their emotions without thinking at all!

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

Horrible game day decisions, the team being unprepared at the start of the season and being blown to oblivion 5 times this year is enough to get anyone fired. Sorry.

The beginning of the season is a mistake to learn from.

The blowouts excuse is a lousy one. The team doesn't have enough talent, especially marching out our injury-ridden C-squad, especially marching out our pathetic backup QBs, to consistently compete.

That's been true for 3 years. We've been winning primarily on effort, not talent.

Urc Burry · 12-12-2011, 06:54 PM

WTF are you talking about ... Our defense is on the verge of being elite. We are a couple pieces away, but its not Haley's job to take care of the D.

What player would Haley of preferred in the '09 draft?
Andre Smith? Bust
Michael Crabtree? Average
Aaron Curry? Bust
Mark Sanchez? Cassel 2.0

We went with our biggest need and are lucky we at least have a contributor out of that draft.

BoneKrusher · 12-12-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

How many times this year did we hear Haley say that his team wasn't well prepared? Answer: too many times.

Amen Brother.

Papi · 12-12-2011, 06:56 PM

I had no large issues with Haley until he refused to give Palko the hook.
Sticking with that turd and not playing Stanzi < a kick in the nuts
Eff him.

JD10367 · 12-12-2011, 06:56 PM

I think both Haley and Sparano got raw deals. There are a lot worse guys you could have for coaches. And might. McDaniels, Norv, et cetera.

Haley was hamstrung by Pioli. As Parcells said when he left New England back in 1996-1997, "they expect me to cook the meal when they don't let me buy the groceries". in Haley's case, he was told, "Hey, here's your food list. Make us something tasty. Oh, by the way, as soon as you start cooking, we're taking away your sea scallops (Charles), your barbecue pork ribs (Berry), and your cheesecake dessert (Moeaki). Oh, yeah, and the main ingredient we're forcing you to use is cheap steak (Cassel)... and we'll be taking that away halfway through your cooking prep and replacing it with some dried-up fried chicken from three days ago (Palko). Oh, yeah, and, by the way... we have a shitload of money and could buy you better ingredients, but we just don't want to. Now make us a gourmet meal, kthxbye."

12-12-2011, 06:46 PM
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1725503	Why I support Todd Haley I know this is going to get me shit. Fire away. If it's true that Haley pushed back on Tyson Jackson, that tells you everything you need to know. Scott Pioli did NOT build a team around his head coach. He forced his coach to run the only system he knows. Know why Haley called Jackson a "system player"? Because Tyson Jackson is only a 3-4 DE in a 2-gap, Romeo 3-4. Does any NFL team run this defense anymore? Even the Patriots don't. Case study. What defense is Thomas Dimitroff running in Atlanta? You guessed it. A 4-3. That's because good GMs adjust their philosophy to fit the coach. Look at the new candidates for head coach. It's going to be from the tree. You know how I know that? 1) because Pioli has shown croneyism this entire time. 2) because he is so stuck on one offensive and defensive philosophy that he needs to hire a coach who follows his marching orders. Not only should we question if the 2-gap 3-4 defense is obsolete. We have to question why Pioli would expect Haley to make a complete transition to a new defense requiring totally different personnel and turn that around in 3 years. How about the obvious? Pioli is the guy who scouted Cassel for years and believed he was the long-term starter. In 3 years, the only QBs he brought in to compete for the starting job were Tyler Palko (probably Haley's choice, but that doesn't mean Pioli didn't have the power to bring a competitive veteran option in) and a 5th round pick he waited 3 years to bring in. Fail. How about the second-most obvious? Pioli forced Haley to run a 3-4 and didn't in 3 years even try to bring in a Nose Tackle. People may get on Haley's case for not getting along with Charlie Weis. It sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start and credit Whitlock for being the only guy to figure that out. Pioli has ultimate say, but if Haley flat-out didn't want to work with the guy, then don't bring him in. Pioli has to have at least some consideration for what Haley wants. And now, because of that, haley ends up looking like the asshole. The Chiefs are finding a convenient time to fire Haley because people hate the Palko decision. First of all, his choice was Palko or a 5th round rookie. Second of all, it sounds like haley's job was pretty much gone well before Palko started a game. So no... not convinced at all that Haley starts Palko if he knows his job is safe. I wouldn't even be surprised if that was just a big **** you after a while. In 3 years, Scott Pioli forces Haley to completely change his defense and doesn't spend a dime to help him out. People say the Chiefs' effort was inconsistent. I call bullshit. This team had so many talent gaps that the only way they could win was with effort. Given the Chiefs' talent, especially at the most critical positions, it's amazing they won as many games the past 2 years as they did. You give Haley the Chargers' talent, and he takes them to the top. Not every team is going to play 100% every single game. The difference is that the best teams have enough talent that they can win even when the other team outplays them. The Chiefs brought in Kyle Orton. I was okay with that move as a 1-2 year decision. But let's be serious about one thing... that's a pretty telltale sign that Pioli is bringing in McDaniels. Haley's job was to coach up players. Many players under his watch who had any kind of upside really improved. I don't like the snake-like tactics we're seeing from our front office. It sounds like they were leaking stories about Haley to discredit him. Between the Lil Wayne concert and the party before the Bears game (after a win, mind you). We've seen firey Haley before. Even with big efforts in Chicago and Pittsburgh, it looked like he just didn't have any fire. I think he knew he was through and the front office was just waiting for a chance to fire him. He's a young coach. He's going to make mistakes. The beginning of the season was a horrible mistake. But that's not one mistake that should get you fired. Flame away. I want to know... if the GM let Haley run a defense he wanted to run, have some input on his coordinator, actually gave Haley good QBs to work with... how would we have fared? And how comfortable do people feel that the grand vision for this team as long as Pioli is here is this exact New England approach that even New England isn't using anymore?
Posts: 51,650

12-12-2011, 06:49 PM	#2
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	Amen brutha! **** Pioli and Clark. It should have been Pioli instead...
Posts: 13,873

12-12-2011, 06:49 PM	#3
HoneyBadger The chosen one Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: DTX Casino cash: $-2124240	Like Nick Wright said: If Pioli was planning a road trip and he had a set of directions and Haley wanted to take a shortcut or a different path, and they got lost because they took this new path, the blame would fall on Haley. I think it is a pretty good analogy, if Haley would have just been a puppet for Pioli he would still have his job.
Posts: 3,144

12-12-2011, 06:50 PM	#4
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $208880	Horrible game day decisions, the team being unprepared at the start of the season and being blown to oblivion 5 times this year is enough to get anyone fired. Sorry.
Posts: 72,995

12-12-2011, 06:51 PM	#5
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9202208	haley was fired, fyi... __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

12-12-2011, 06:51 PM	#6
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $-1142442	Why Nobody cares.
Posts: 78,127

12-12-2011, 06:51 PM	#7
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $-707094	Bill Muir. Enough reason to shit can Haley.
Posts: 50,175

12-12-2011, 06:52 PM	#8
BoneKrusher That's Right Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bluefield, Virginia Casino cash: $9976645	Running Weis off did it for Me, **** Haley! __________________ "MaHomes/MaAuto"
Posts: 7,333

12-12-2011, 06:53 PM	#10
Start Croyle Starter Join Date: Dec 2010 Casino cash: $10016078	Chiefzilla, you are a smart fan! This post is actually reasonable and makes sense! It's too bad that so many fans (and GMs!) only follow their emotions without thinking at all!
Posts: 575

12-12-2011, 06:54 PM	#12
Urc Burry Veteran Join Date: Jan 2011 Casino cash: $8621048	WTF are you talking about ... Our defense is on the verge of being elite. We are a couple pieces away, but its not Haley's job to take care of the D. What player would Haley of preferred in the '09 draft? Andre Smith? Bust Michael Crabtree? Average Aaron Curry? Bust Mark Sanchez? Cassel 2.0 We went with our biggest need and are lucky we at least have a contributor out of that draft.
Posts: 2,558

12-12-2011, 06:56 PM	#14
Papi Veteran Join Date: Feb 2006 Casino cash: $3905522	I had no large issues with Haley until he refused to give Palko the hook. Sticking with that turd and not playing Stanzi < a kick in the nuts Eff him.
Posts: 1,674

12-12-2011, 06:56 PM	#15
JD10367 Cheaterlover* Join Date: May 2009 Location: RI Casino cash: $10010716	I think both Haley and Sparano got raw deals. There are a lot worse guys you could have for coaches. And might. McDaniels, Norv, et cetera. Haley was hamstrung by Pioli. As Parcells said when he left New England back in 1996-1997, "they expect me to cook the meal when they don't let me buy the groceries". in Haley's case, he was told, "Hey, here's your food list. Make us something tasty. Oh, by the way, as soon as you start cooking, we're taking away your sea scallops (Charles), your barbecue pork ribs (Berry), and your cheesecake dessert (Moeaki). Oh, yeah, and the main ingredient we're forcing you to use is cheap steak (Cassel)... and we'll be taking that away halfway through your cooking prep and replacing it with some dried-up fried chicken from three days ago (Palko). Oh, yeah, and, by the way... we have a shitload of money and could buy you better ingredients, but we just don't want to. Now make us a gourmet meal, kthxbye."
Posts: 12,916