Steadman vs Peterson

MrBlond · 11-22-2000, 12:56 AM

Jack Steadman drafted and developed talent better in the dreaded 80's than Peterson in the golden 90's. some examples from memory.

Safety
Steadman: Deron Cherry, Loydd Burruss
Peterson: Woods and Tongue
Advantage: Steadman
CB
Steadman: Kevin Ross, Albert Lewis
Peterson: Dale Carter
Advantage: Steadman
LB
Steadman: Dino Hackett, Gary Spani
Peterson: Derrick Thomas
Advantage: Peterson

cont<BR>

MrBlond · 11-22-2000, 01:00 AM

Defensive line
Steadman: Neil Smith, Bill Maas, Mike Bell
Peterson: John Browning
Advantage: Steadman
Offensive Line
Steadman: John Alt
Peterson: Grunhard, Szott, Shields
Advantage: Peterson
WR
Steadman: Carlos Carson, Marshall, Paige
Peterson: Morris(?), Dawson, Penn
Advantage: Steadman
TE
Steadman: ?
Peterson: Gonzo
Advantage: Peterson

cont

DanT · 11-22-2000, 01:02 AM

Mr_Blond,

Since long before 1980, the draft position of teams in the NFL has been based on team performance in the previous year. The worse the performance, the better the draft position. The teams that Peterson fielded in the 1990's performed so much better than Steadman's 1980's teams that it is misleading to compare draft picks on a player-for-player basis, doncha' think?

MrBlond · 11-22-2000, 01:06 AM

RB
Steadman: Delaney, Okoye
Peterson: Cloud, Shehee, Hill
Advantage: Steadman
QB
Steadman: Kenney, Fuller
Peterson: Elkins, Blundin, Barnes
Advantage: Steadman
Coaches
Steadman: Levy, Mackovic
Peterson: Gunther, Schottenhiemer (not really devoloped by Peterson but...)
Advantage: Push

So why did we win more games in the 90's? first: free agency. second: Derrick Thomas. King Carl has been riding the coattails of DT for over a decade. He has gotten more milage from that draft choice than any GM in history.

<BR>

DanT · 11-22-2000, 01:09 AM

So, in other words, when Peterson had a high draft pick, he struck gold. I wonder what he would have done if he had the slew of great draft positions that Steadman kept "earning".

MrBlond · 11-22-2000, 01:13 AM

Dan T,
Peterson has wasted and traded away more 1st and 2nd rounders than Steadman. What is the differance if you pick 4th or 24th in the first round? both players should be impact 1st rounders. Steadman should be commended for picking Okoye in the 2nd round instead of trading that pick for say Victor Bailey, or selecting Mike Cloud. I almost forgot:

Kickers
Steadman: Lowery
Peterson: a motley crew of rejects
Advantage: Steadman

DanT · 11-22-2000, 01:18 AM

MrBlond,

It's beyond my ability to explain at 1:15 in the morning just what is the difference between a 4th overall pick and the 24th overall pick. It's such a subtle difference that no one who watches or participates in NFL drafts even gives it much thought. GMs routinely swap 4th overall picks for 24th overall picks and a candy bar. ;)

Pardon my goofy sense of humor. I better get some sleep.

MrBlond · 11-22-2000, 01:20 AM

This list is strictly from memory, but I don't recognize many top 10-20 draft picks in Steadmans group. Neil for sure. Maybe Maas? Alt? I dont recall. You may not think this is apples to apples but for supporters of Petersons to say that he can't be replaced or we will return to the 80's is a bit misleading (IMO)

DanT · 11-22-2000, 01:25 AM

MrBlond,

My memory is a little rusty too but I can tell that you've been a fan of the Chiefs for a long time. It's good to have us old-timers around to give the younguns the benefit of our experience ;)

I think that Maas was a top-5 pick out of Pitt. I kind of want to say he was a #2 or #3 but I'm not completely sure. Let me see if I can find out real quick...

DanT · 11-22-2000, 01:31 AM

Maas was our #1 in 1984. In 1983, we tied for last in the AFC West with a 6-10 record. The #1 overall that year was Irving Fryar, the #2 was Dean Steinkuhler a guard out of Nebraska who never made a Pro Bowl in his 7 year NFL career. Maas was somewhere in the top 10 but I don't know where. We also got Alt in the first round that year.

Here are our first-rounders since 1980:

1999 John Tait, OT, BYU
1998 Victor Riley, G, Auburn
1997 Tony Gonzalez, TE, California
1996 Jerome Woods, S, Memphis
1995 Trezelle Jenkins, OT, Michigan
1994 Greg Hill, RB, Texas A&M
1993 No Pick
1992 Dale Carter, DB, Tennessee
1991 Harvey Williams, RB, Louisiana State
1990 Percy Snow, LB, Michigan
1989 Derrick Thomas, LB, Alabama
1988 Neil Smith, DE, Nebraska
1987 Paul Palmer, RB, Temple
1986 Brian Jozwiak, T, West Virginia
1985 Ethan Horton, RB, North Carolina
1984 Bill Maas, NT, Pittsburgh
John Alt, T, Iowa
1983 Todd Blackledge, QB, Penn State
1982 Anthony Hancock, WR, Tennessee
1981 Willie Scott, TE, South Carolina
1980 Brad Budde, G, Southern California

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 11-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DanT (edited 11-22-2000).]

DanT · 11-22-2000, 01:47 AM

Here's our team performance since 1979:

1979 7 9 0 5th AFC West
1980 8 8 0 Tied for 3rd AFC West
1981 9 7 0 3rd AFC West
1982 3 6 0 11th AFC Super Bowl tournament
1983 6 10 0 Tied for 4th AFC West
1984 8 8 0 4th AFC West
1985 6 10 0 5th AFC West
1986 10 6 0 2nd AFC West; lost Wild Card to N.Y. Jets 35-10
1987 4 11 0 5th AFC West
1988 4 11 1 5th AFC West
1989 8 7 1 2nd AFC West
1990 11 5 0 2nd AFC West; lost Wild Card to Miami 17-16
1991 10 6 0 2nd AFC West; lost in 2nd round to Buffalo 37-14
1992 10 6 0 2nd AFC West; lost Wild Card to San Diego 17-0
1993 11 5 0 AFC West champs; lost to Buffalo for AFC championship 30-13
1994 9 7 0 2nd AFC West; lost Wild Card to Miami 27-17
1995 13 3 0 AFC West champs; lost in 2nd round to Indianapolis 10-7
1996 9 7 0 2nd AFC West
1997 13 3 0 AFC West champs; lost in 2nd round to Denver 14-10
1998 7 9 0 4th AFC West
1999 9 7 0 2nd AFC West <BR>

DaWolf · 11-22-2000, 02:20 AM

Well bottom line Steadman screwed up in '83 and that screwed us for the next 15 years...

MrBlond · 11-22-2000, 07:36 AM

DanT
I am not comparing 1st rounders to 1st rounders. I am comparing players devoloped by position. Deron Cherry was an undrafted FA punter who was a much better player than Jerome Woods, a first rounder. I will concede interior O-line, and of course DT and Gonzo, but at EVERY other position Steadman did significantly better(IMO).I am also not comparing records. I am trying to refute the notion that Peterson has stocked this team with great players that has been ruined by poor coaching. IMO that is not true, this team is no more talented than the Steadman teams of the 80's.

Mark M · 11-22-2000, 11:50 AM

Super Bowl appearances/victories:
Steadman: 0
Peterson: 0

They both failed at the part of their jobs that really mattered. This is like trying to compare a root canal to a dislocated shoulder—you wouldn't want either because they both suck.

MM
--Convinced he could do better.

MrBlond · 11-22-2000, 12:23 PM

Mark,
That is exactly my point. Where were all the Steadman defenders in 89? I don't remember one person saying Steadman should be retained because there was no "viable" canidate. I don't remember anyone defending Steadman by pointing out how great the players were like Bill Maas, and Dino Hackett. I don't remember anyone saying that 88 team was filled with Pro-Bowlers that was being mishandled by an inexperianced HC. Steadmans legacy was one of failure for not winning. When will Peterson defenders hold him to the same standard? 15 years? 18? 20? 25?

11-22-2000, 01:06 AM	#4
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	RB Steadman: Delaney, Okoye Peterson: Cloud, Shehee, Hill Advantage: Steadman QB Steadman: Kenney, Fuller Peterson: Elkins, Blundin, Barnes Advantage: Steadman Coaches Steadman: Levy, Mackovic Peterson: Gunther, Schottenhiemer (not really devoloped by Peterson but...) Advantage: Push So why did we win more games in the 90's? first: free agency. second: Derrick Thomas. King Carl has been riding the coattails of DT for over a decade. He has gotten more milage from that draft choice than any GM in history. <BR>
Posts: 12,747

11-22-2000, 01:09 AM	#5
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1541711	So, in other words, when Peterson had a high draft pick, he struck gold. I wonder what he would have done if he had the slew of great draft positions that Steadman kept "earning".
Posts: 4,382

11-22-2000, 01:13 AM	#6
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Dan T, Peterson has wasted and traded away more 1st and 2nd rounders than Steadman. What is the differance if you pick 4th or 24th in the first round? both players should be impact 1st rounders. Steadman should be commended for picking Okoye in the 2nd round instead of trading that pick for say Victor Bailey, or selecting Mike Cloud. I almost forgot: Kickers Steadman: Lowery Peterson: a motley crew of rejects Advantage: Steadman
Posts: 12,747

11-22-2000, 01:18 AM	#7
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1541711	MrBlond, It's beyond my ability to explain at 1:15 in the morning just what is the difference between a 4th overall pick and the 24th overall pick. It's such a subtle difference that no one who watches or participates in NFL drafts even gives it much thought. GMs routinely swap 4th overall picks for 24th overall picks and a candy bar. ;) Pardon my goofy sense of humor. I better get some sleep.
Posts: 4,382

11-22-2000, 01:20 AM	#8
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	This list is strictly from memory, but I don't recognize many top 10-20 draft picks in Steadmans group. Neil for sure. Maybe Maas? Alt? I dont recall. You may not think this is apples to apples but for supporters of Petersons to say that he can't be replaced or we will return to the 80's is a bit misleading (IMO)
Posts: 12,747

11-22-2000, 12:56 AM
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Jack Steadman drafted and developed talent better in the dreaded 80's than Peterson in the golden 90's. some examples from memory. Safety Steadman: Deron Cherry, Loydd Burruss Peterson: Woods and Tongue Advantage: Steadman CB Steadman: Kevin Ross, Albert Lewis Peterson: Dale Carter Advantage: Steadman LB Steadman: Dino Hackett, Gary Spani Peterson: Derrick Thomas Advantage: Peterson cont<BR>
Posts: 12,747

11-22-2000, 01:00 AM	#2
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Defensive line Steadman: Neil Smith, Bill Maas, Mike Bell Peterson: John Browning Advantage: Steadman Offensive Line Steadman: John Alt Peterson: Grunhard, Szott, Shields Advantage: Peterson WR Steadman: Carlos Carson, Marshall, Paige Peterson: Morris(?), Dawson, Penn Advantage: Steadman TE Steadman: ? Peterson: Gonzo Advantage: Peterson cont
Posts: 12,747

11-22-2000, 01:02 AM	#3
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1541711	Mr_Blond, Since long before 1980, the draft position of teams in the NFL has been based on team performance in the previous year. The worse the performance, the better the draft position. The teams that Peterson fielded in the 1990's performed so much better than Steadman's 1980's teams that it is misleading to compare draft picks on a player-for-player basis, doncha' think?
Posts: 4,382

11-22-2000, 01:25 AM	#9
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1541711	MrBlond, My memory is a little rusty too but I can tell that you've been a fan of the Chiefs for a long time. It's good to have us old-timers around to give the younguns the benefit of our experience ;) I think that Maas was a top-5 pick out of Pitt. I kind of want to say he was a #2 or #3 but I'm not completely sure. Let me see if I can find out real quick...
Posts: 4,382

11-22-2000, 01:31 AM	#10
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1541711	Maas was our #1 in 1984. In 1983, we tied for last in the AFC West with a 6-10 record. The #1 overall that year was Irving Fryar, the #2 was Dean Steinkuhler a guard out of Nebraska who never made a Pro Bowl in his 7 year NFL career. Maas was somewhere in the top 10 but I don't know where. We also got Alt in the first round that year. Here are our first-rounders since 1980: 1999 John Tait, OT, BYU 1998 Victor Riley, G, Auburn 1997 Tony Gonzalez, TE, California 1996 Jerome Woods, S, Memphis 1995 Trezelle Jenkins, OT, Michigan 1994 Greg Hill, RB, Texas A&M 1993 No Pick 1992 Dale Carter, DB, Tennessee 1991 Harvey Williams, RB, Louisiana State 1990 Percy Snow, LB, Michigan 1989 Derrick Thomas, LB, Alabama 1988 Neil Smith, DE, Nebraska 1987 Paul Palmer, RB, Temple 1986 Brian Jozwiak, T, West Virginia 1985 Ethan Horton, RB, North Carolina 1984 Bill Maas, NT, Pittsburgh John Alt, T, Iowa 1983 Todd Blackledge, QB, Penn State 1982 Anthony Hancock, WR, Tennessee 1981 Willie Scott, TE, South Carolina 1980 Brad Budde, G, Southern California [This message has been edited by DanT (edited 11-22-2000).] [This message has been edited by DanT (edited 11-22-2000).]
Posts: 4,382

11-22-2000, 01:47 AM	#11
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1541711	Here's our team performance since 1979: 1979 7 9 0 5th AFC West 1980 8 8 0 Tied for 3rd AFC West 1981 9 7 0 3rd AFC West 1982 3 6 0 11th AFC Super Bowl tournament 1983 6 10 0 Tied for 4th AFC West 1984 8 8 0 4th AFC West 1985 6 10 0 5th AFC West 1986 10 6 0 2nd AFC West; lost Wild Card to N.Y. Jets 35-10 1987 4 11 0 5th AFC West 1988 4 11 1 5th AFC West 1989 8 7 1 2nd AFC West 1990 11 5 0 2nd AFC West; lost Wild Card to Miami 17-16 1991 10 6 0 2nd AFC West; lost in 2nd round to Buffalo 37-14 1992 10 6 0 2nd AFC West; lost Wild Card to San Diego 17-0 1993 11 5 0 AFC West champs; lost to Buffalo for AFC championship 30-13 1994 9 7 0 2nd AFC West; lost Wild Card to Miami 27-17 1995 13 3 0 AFC West champs; lost in 2nd round to Indianapolis 10-7 1996 9 7 0 2nd AFC West 1997 13 3 0 AFC West champs; lost in 2nd round to Denver 14-10 1998 7 9 0 4th AFC West 1999 9 7 0 2nd AFC West <BR>
Posts: 4,382

11-22-2000, 02:20 AM	#12
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	Well bottom line Steadman screwed up in '83 and that screwed us for the next 15 years...
Posts: 6,798

11-22-2000, 07:36 AM	#13
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	DanT I am not comparing 1st rounders to 1st rounders. I am comparing players devoloped by position. Deron Cherry was an undrafted FA punter who was a much better player than Jerome Woods, a first rounder. I will concede interior O-line, and of course DT and Gonzo, but at EVERY other position Steadman did significantly better(IMO).I am also not comparing records. I am trying to refute the notion that Peterson has stocked this team with great players that has been ruined by poor coaching. IMO that is not true, this team is no more talented than the Steadman teams of the 80's.
Posts: 12,747

11-22-2000, 11:50 AM	#14
Mark M What time is it? Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: You tell me ... Casino cash: $9884900	Super Bowl appearances/victories: Steadman: 0 Peterson: 0 They both failed at the part of their jobs that really mattered. This is like trying to compare a root canal to a dislocated shoulder—you wouldn't want either because they both suck. MM --Convinced he could do better.
Posts: 4,687

11-22-2000, 12:23 PM	#15
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Mark, That is exactly my point. Where were all the Steadman defenders in 89? I don't remember one person saying Steadman should be retained because there was no "viable" canidate. I don't remember anyone defending Steadman by pointing out how great the players were like Bill Maas, and Dino Hackett. I don't remember anyone saying that 88 team was filled with Pro-Bowlers that was being mishandled by an inexperianced HC. Steadmans legacy was one of failure for not winning. When will Peterson defenders hold him to the same standard? 15 years? 18? 20? 25?
Posts: 12,747