WWI Zone Rouge In France

[gblowfish]

I was reading about the Battle of Verdun in WWI. Verdun was an ancient city northeast of Paris, and was considered the strong point of protection from the Germans advancing on Paris itself. In a 10-month fierce battle in 1916, there were 700,000 casualties, including at least 150,000 dead on both sides, along with tens of thousands of civilian deaths and the death of thousands of animals. Both sides called the battlefield "The Hell of Verdun." In 1918, France declared an area around the size of NYC the "Zone Rouge" or "Red Zone." These were areas of battlefields too dangerous to try to recover. No farming, logging, home building, nothing. Too many unexploded bombs and environmental dangers from poison gas cannisters to just disease and filth from all the death.

So the French Government has been working on these "Red Zones" for over 100 years, trying to clean them up. The off limit areas now are down to around 70 square miles. Over 900 French citizens have died since the end of the war from previously unexploded ordnance. Last incident was in the 1990s.

The French Government thinks it may take another 100 years or more to make all the "Red Zone" safe to re-occupy. Crazy. You can read about the Red Zone here:

https://brilliantmaps.com/zone-rouge/

[Donger]

Yeah, it's just not something that we have ever had to deal with. Here's one from earlier this year in Exeter:

[gblowfish]

Verdun was designed by the German command to be a war of attrition. The idea was to draw as many French into the battle to weaken them on other battle fields like the Somme to the north. The idea wasn't to move on Paris, it was simply to kill as many French Soldiers as possible until the French Army was bled dry. Pretty stark summation of "battle tactics" in 1916. Soldiers were seen as war material and expendable.

The front along the Meuse River was around 35 miles long. The battle ground was about 70 square miles. On those 70 square miles, it is estimated that more than 1,000 shells fell per square mile during the battle. The land was totally pulvarized, at least a half dozen french villages no longer exist to this day, because they were in the Zone Rouge and the French Government forbade rebuilding them.

[Buehler445]

Yeah, WWI is an underrated hellhole. WWII gets all the glory, but It's hard for me to think any point in history was worse than The Somme or Verdun. ****ing horror show.

If you haven't listened to Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon, it's a good listen. I don't think it's free anymore, but my GOD it's a fantastic listen.

[Rain Man]

Oh, I'll have to read that when I get a minute. I find this sort of stuff interesting.

I read at one point that the World War II death count is still going up because every year some Bedouin in North Africa will walk on a land mine near Tobruk or El Alamein.

[Marcellus]

I just watched a movie about the Somme last night ironically.

One of the main reasons the French didn't fight much against Germany during WWII is they never really recovered from WWI. Just didn't have the stomach for it.

[gblowfish]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Yeah, WWI is an underrated hellhole. WWII gets all the glory, but It's hard for me to think any point in history was worse than The Somme or Verdun. ****ing horror show.

If you haven't listened to Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon, it's a good listen. I don't think it's free anymore, but my GOD it's a fantastic listen.

WW1's death toll, like the extreme death in the Civil War, was due to commanders using antiquated battle methods in wars where the weaponry was far superior to the tactics.

The British lost 20,000 KIA in ONE DAY in the first battle of the Somme, because generals kept sending infantry in wave after wave into interlocking machine gun fire. WWI saw the first widespread use of chemical weapons, barbed wire, hand grenades, and high explosive artillery. The sad thing is, they never really altered their tactics until the very end of the war, and even then they were sending guys over the top in trench warfare. Just insane. Furthermore, both sides built the trenches to be "temporary shelter," which of course led to flooding, rats, trench foot, horrible disease, etc. Lots of soldiers died from sickness in the trenches instead of bullets or artillery.

[gblowfish]

Well, when people call the French "pussies" they need to study WWI. They lost an entire generation of young men in four years.

[Rain Man]

To future generations, World War II was by and large a grand adventure story spanning the globe. World War I was a bunch of people dying in mud.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Well, when people call the French "pussies" they need to study WWI. They lost an entire generation of young men in four years.

If memory serves, the French lost "just" 100,000 or so more than the Brits.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Donger

If memory serves, the French lost "just" 100,000 or so more than the Brits.

I think the Germans lost the most of anybody.

I heard the percentages on the number of 18-30 year old men that died in the war is ****ing appalling.

[crispystl]

[QUOTE=gblowfish;On those 70 square miles, it is estimated that more than 1,000 shells fell per square mile during the battle. The land was totally pulvarized, at least a half dozen french villages no longer exist to this day, because they were in the Zone Rouge and the French Government forbade rebuilding them.[/QUOTE]

I read (I can't remember if it was in "A Storm in Flanders" or "Now it can be Told") Passchendaele got the same treatment tilling up the soil to a depth of around 4-5ft. then it rained for days and days and days creating a muck something like quicksand. Men were literally drowning in the shit. One of the soldiers talked about seeing men drowning in mud and not having the heart to mercy shoot them, so they had to watch many of them slowly sink away.

[crispystl]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I think the Germans lost the most of anybody.

I heard the percentages on the number of 18-30 year old men that died in the war is ****ing appalling.

It literally wiped out entire industries, because the knowledge that was passed from generation to generation was snuffed out and ceased to exist.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Yeah, WWI is an underrated hellhole. WWII gets all the glory, but It's hard for me to think any point in history was worse than The Somme or Verdun. ****ing horror show.

If you haven't listened to Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon, it's a good listen. I don't think it's free anymore, but my GOD it's a fantastic listen.

Beat me to it.

My old ass phone had a bunch of Carlin stuff downloaded to it and I can't remember my login for my Carlin account. The battery was dead and the reason I replaced it was because my charging port was failing. Unsurprisingly, I couldn't get it to take a charge.

So I bought one of those little adapter stickers that you work onto your battery for older phones so you can use it on a charging pad. I finally got some life into the batter and immediately got all that stuff transferred into my dropbox account so I could get it back on my new phone.

Yeah, it's not free anymore, nor is Ghosts of the Ostfront or King of Kings. Those are all spectacular. They're worth a few bucks to get them.

But honestly, the present Supernova in the East series will tell you want you want to know. Download and listen to that, if you enjoy it, get yourself an account and download a bunch of others.

[Hammock Parties]

I went to the WWI museum in KC last weekend.

Grim savagery. I think I got depressed just looking at the medical gear.