NFL Draft Tamba Hali? MOTHER F*** you CARL!! - Page 28

**banyon** · 04-29-2006, 01:32 PM

If you like Hali fine.

But this was 10 picks too high to take this dude.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-02-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I have zero problem with anyone's opinion, but if people are getting ridiculed for theirs, then we should have accessible records like this to hold them accountable.

Clearly, you DO have issue with people's opinions, as evidenced by your hate for Mecca and the constant "Gholston" in retort to Hamas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

For the record, I was dead wrong about Hali. After seeing him, get owned repeatedly in the season that we set low bar for sacks in a season, I said that Hali would never be a legit threat, and that his only place he would be effective is coming off the left end. Everybody gets some right, and some wrong.

No, you weren't. Hali was effective his first season playing opposite Allen. His second and third seasons were a disappointment. The move to outside linebacker has given his career new life but there is no evidence that indicates his career would have ascended had he stayed at DE in a 4-3 defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

No one is ever right or wrong all the time, and nobody knows what a players future will look like. GMs, and want to be GMs alike can only speculate off of the body of work that they have to go on, that's why it pisses me off so much to see the know it alls raking people across the coals for their opinions.

This goes both ways. If someone is correct in their assement that a player will be infective, I rarely see any praise for that evaluation.

Conversely, if a player is better or meets expectations, those who questioned the player is the one "raked" over the coals.

It's a double standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

It just makes them look stupid in the long run.

No, it doesn't. It makes them wrong. There are several reasons why players fail to translate to the NFL and there are several reasons why players with lower grades outplay their draft status.

On draft day 2006, I stated that Jarrad Page would be a impact safety for the Chiefs, yet if you search the threads, there are tons of people that say he's camp fodder and won't make the team. Are all of those people "stupid"? No. For the most part, I'd bet none of them had seen him play and don't understand 7th round value.

And once again, when someone is "right" in their assessment of a player, I rarely, if ever, see that member praised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

It's not their opinions of the players, right or wrong that makes them look that way, it's the fact that they are too stupid to know that a fifth round pick may end up looking like a 1st, and a first may be out of the league in a few years. Even the best drafting teams have picks that you look back on, and say WTF were they thinking?

This is untrue. It's very rare that teams over-evaluate players. Sure, every once in a while a true bust comes along. But most team's evaluations are similar. Every once in a while, there's a "WTF" moment, like with Tyson Jackson or Tyson Alualu this past draft.

But it appears that Jacksonville was correct in their evaluation and the Chiefs were incorrect. It happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I mean, who would have ever thought that Matt Cassel would be making Mark Sanchez look like a chump right now?

Mark Sanchez has 16 TD, 8 INT's and more passing yardage than Cassel. I think it's safe to say that the Jets have faced better teams this season than the Chiefs although it's speculation as to how either would have done if they were to switch teams.

But Mark Sanchez has hardly been the definition of a "chump" to date this season.

Hootie · 12-02-2010, 06:11 PM

Great...Dane playing the stat card with Mark Sanchez like it means something...

too bad he left out the 55% completions and the 82 rating...

AND they've beaten New England....

and WAIT FOR IT

Miami
Buffalo
Denver
Minnesota
Detroit
Cleveland
Houston
Cincinnati

Needed OT against Detroit and Cleveland...got bailed out by a sketchy PI against Denver and got bailed out by Kubiak being a terrible, conservative head coach after THE SANCHIZE threw a "game ending" INT...

So Dane...

Do a little research bud.

Hootie · 12-02-2010, 06:12 PM

this is why these pessimistic morons think everything Chiefs suck all the times compared to other teams...

they WATCH every Chiefs game (most of them do anyways) and let stats do the talking for all of the other games they don't watch...

so stats don't count for Chiefs players but they define every other player in the NFL

Frosty · 12-02-2010, 06:16 PM

You could get whiplash reading this thread from the beginning.

**Saul Good** · 12-02-2010, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

If you read my initial comments on draft day 2006, I expected Hali to be a Pro Bowl defense player.

That has not happened.

Hali played well his rookie season, then followed those up with average seasons. Last year while learning a new position, his level of play began to ascend. This year, his fifth year in the league, has been his best season to date. Maybe not statistically, but most certainly it's been his most effective season.

Has he lived up to his first round selection?

I would say it turned out to be a pretty decent pick. Look at the players taken after him in the round and tell me how many are definitively better.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-02-2010, 06:29 PM

At that point in time, it was completely inarguable that Eric Hicks had achieved more than Tamba Hali.

And yes, Demeco Ryans is a better player than Tamba, especially if we are running a 4-3, which we were.

If you are going to bump posts to make other people look bad, you might want to get your facts straight first.

Hali was in his third year in the league and at the featured pass rushing position accumulated 3 sacks.

It's funny how all of these things get filtered out when its time for an organizational ball lavage.

Hootie · 12-02-2010, 06:31 PM

the problem with you guys is you expect far too much out of every single draft pick...

It's ridiculous.

You expect every 1st rounder to be a hall of famer...every 2nd round to be an all-pro...ever 3rd rounder to be a pro bowler...and every 4th rounder to be a 10 year starter.

It's pure insanity.

TheGuardian · 12-02-2010, 06:33 PM

Comparing Ryans and Tamaba is comparing apples and oranges. One is a mike backer in a 40 front and the other is an outside linebacker in a 30 front. You Hamas nor anyone else can say which is better because it's like comparing a corner to a safety. Both play in the secondary but that's where the comparisons end.

But seriously Hamas, you said we woulda been better of drafting Thomas Howard. Who sucks absolute nuts, and always has. And I don't care what his numbers were.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-02-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

the problem with you guys is you expect far too much out of every single draft pick...

It's ridiculous.

You expect every 1st rounder to be a hall of famer...every 2nd round to be an all-pro...ever 3rd rounder to be a pro bowler...and every 4th rounder to be a 10 year starter.

It's pure insanity.

That's a wonderful strawman you've built.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-02-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Comparing Ryans and Tamaba is comparing apples and oranges. One is a mike backer in a 40 front and the other is an outside linebacker in a 30 front. You Hamas nor anyone else can say which is better because it's like comparing a corner to a safety. Both play in the secondary but that's where the comparisons end.

But seriously Hamas, you said we woulda been better of drafting Thomas Howard. Who sucks absolute nuts, and always has. And I don't care what his numbers were.

No one is saying that it's a direct comparison, but I think it's pretty safe to say that Demeco Ryans is a better football player than Tamba Hali. I'm sure you threw a similar shitfit when NFLN had their list of Top 100 players some time back.

So Thomas Howard sucks nuts because he has and no information will refute that. OK. Nice tautology, Ricky Roughnuts.

Hootie · 12-02-2010, 06:39 PM

I don't know how anyone comes to the conclusion that Demeco Ryans is a better football player than Tamba Hali...

but hey, whatever...lol

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-02-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

Great...Dane playing the stat card with Mark Sanchez like it means something...

It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that he's not a "chump".

Hootie · 12-02-2010, 06:41 PM

It's like what I just said...

Stats don't count for Chiefs fans because they watch the Chiefs games and everyone acquiring these stats has to pass the "eye" test...

but since these same people probably don't get to watch 16 Texans games, or 16 Jets games, or 16 Packers games (etc. etc. etc.) stats execute their arguments for them just fine.

I'll tell you this right now...

I don't think 155 tackles on a shitty defense is indicative of anything...I've seen Demeco Ryans and the Texans play more than a few times...

He's certainly a solid player...but it's not like they got a whole lot worse when he got injured...they have been a bad defense every single year they've been in the NFL...

Demeco Ryans is CLEARLY not a gamechanger...

Hali is...

Ryans may be a more complete football player, but Hali can change games...so...?

Who do you take?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-02-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

I don't know how anyone comes to the conclusion that Demeco Ryans is a better football player than Tamba Hali...

but hey, whatever...lol

Watching them both play? Ryans was DROY, has been to two Pro Bowls for a team of low visibility (this isn't Roy Williams making it b/c he was with Dallas) and he was a 1x All-Pro.

That being said, it's obvious you can't say that Tom Brady is a better football player than Jerheme Urban, as they play different positions.

Hootie · 12-02-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that he's not a "chump".

He's still the weakest link on a really solidly built team...and he'll be the reason why they either...

A) miss the playoffs

or

B) don't win a Super Bowl

Seriously. I'm not sold on the fact they don't finish out 1-4 and possibly miss the playoffs...starting this week.

The Bears and the Jets are two teams that could EASILY BE .500 rather than 8-3 and 9-2...

There is NO QUESTION in my mind the Chiefs are better than the Jets...

and I HOPE MORE THAN ANYTHING we win the West and host the Jets in the Wild Card round. I pray, even.

04-29-2006, 01:32 PM
banyon Supporter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hermosa, SD Casino cash: $10176551	Tamba Hali? MOTHER F* you CARL!!** If you like Hali fine. But this was 10 picks too high to take this dude.
Posts: 44,355

12-02-2010, 06:11 PM	#407
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	Great...Dane playing the stat card with Mark Sanchez like it means something... too bad he left out the 55% completions and the 82 rating... AND they've beaten New England.... and WAIT FOR IT Miami Buffalo Denver Minnesota Detroit Cleveland Houston Cincinnati Needed OT against Detroit and Cleveland...got bailed out by a sketchy PI against Denver and got bailed out by Kubiak being a terrible, conservative head coach after THE SANCHIZE threw a "game ending" INT... So Dane... Do a little research bud.
Posts: 56,356

12-02-2010, 06:12 PM	#408
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	this is why these pessimistic morons think everything Chiefs suck all the times compared to other teams... they WATCH every Chiefs game (most of them do anyways) and let stats do the talking for all of the other games they don't watch... so stats don't count for Chiefs players but they define every other player in the NFL
Posts: 56,356

12-02-2010, 06:16 PM	#409
Frosty Go Beavers! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Washington Casino cash: $3358243	You could get whiplash reading this thread from the beginning.
Posts: 14,541

12-02-2010, 06:29 PM	#411
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	At that point in time, it was completely inarguable that Eric Hicks had achieved more than Tamba Hali. And yes, Demeco Ryans is a better player than Tamba, especially if we are running a 4-3, which we were. If you are going to bump posts to make other people look bad, you might want to get your facts straight first. Hali was in his third year in the league and at the featured pass rushing position accumulated 3 sacks. It's funny how all of these things get filtered out when its time for an organizational ball lavage. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

12-02-2010, 06:31 PM	#412
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	the problem with you guys is you expect far too much out of every single draft pick... It's ridiculous. You expect every 1st rounder to be a hall of famer...every 2nd round to be an all-pro...ever 3rd rounder to be a pro bowler...and every 4th rounder to be a 10 year starter. It's pure insanity.
Posts: 56,356

12-02-2010, 06:33 PM	#413
TheGuardian MVP Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $6305299	Comparing Ryans and Tamaba is comparing apples and oranges. One is a mike backer in a 40 front and the other is an outside linebacker in a 30 front. You Hamas nor anyone else can say which is better because it's like comparing a corner to a safety. Both play in the secondary but that's where the comparisons end. But seriously Hamas, you said we woulda been better of drafting Thomas Howard. Who sucks absolute nuts, and always has. And I don't care what his numbers were.
Posts: 9,564

12-02-2010, 06:39 PM	#416
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	I don't know how anyone comes to the conclusion that Demeco Ryans is a better football player than Tamba Hali... but hey, whatever...lol
Posts: 56,356

12-02-2010, 06:41 PM	#418
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	It's like what I just said... Stats don't count for Chiefs fans because they watch the Chiefs games and everyone acquiring these stats has to pass the "eye" test... but since these same people probably don't get to watch 16 Texans games, or 16 Jets games, or 16 Packers games (etc. etc. etc.) stats execute their arguments for them just fine. I'll tell you this right now... I don't think 155 tackles on a shitty defense is indicative of anything...I've seen Demeco Ryans and the Texans play more than a few times... He's certainly a solid player...but it's not like they got a whole lot worse when he got injured...they have been a bad defense every single year they've been in the NFL... Demeco Ryans is CLEARLY not a gamechanger... Hali is... Ryans may be a more complete football player, but Hali can change games...so...? Who do you take?
Posts: 56,356