Do you prefer the "old"/Vermeil style or the "new"/Herm style of play?

FloridaMan88 · 09-19-2006, 08:46 AM

Vermeil-era vs Herm-era (all 2 games of it) by the numbers from today's KC Star:

New vs. Old: Comparing two coaches' styles
The Kansas City Star
It’s been only two games, but here’s how the Chiefs have fared in Herm Edwards’ brief tenure as coach (top) compared with five seasons under Dick Vermeil.

Edwards Category Vermeil
8.0 Points for 27.0
16.0 Points against 22.9
129.0 Rush offense 137.3
130.5 Rush defense 124.4
153.5 Pass offense 243.6
146.5 Pass defense 232.4

wolfpack0735 · 09-19-2006, 08:52 AM

Hermie dosent have the tackles to play Vermeil`s offense but Hermie needs to get off page one of Vermeil`s play book.

htismaqe · 09-19-2006, 08:53 AM

I voted neither, but I have to add one caveat:

Anybody that voted for Vermeil is ignoring the obvious.

IT DID NOT WORK.

Period, end of story.

Whether or not Herm's "style" succeeds here is still undecided. No matter how you feel on the CHANCE that it will succeed, the simple fact is that we don't have sufficient data to make a determination.

We have 5 years of data on Vermeil. 5 years of failure.

Logical · 09-19-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I voted neither, but I have to add one caveat:

Anybody that voted for Vermeil is ignoring the obvious.

IT DID NOT WORK.

Period, end of story.

Whether or not Herm's "style" succeeds here is still undecided. No matter how you feel on the CHANCE that it will succeed, the simple fact is that we don't have sufficient data to make a determination.

We have 5 years of data on Vermeil. 5 years of failure.

He asked which we preferred, not which was better. I prefer the offensive style of Vermiel to the all defense no offense style of Herm. The games were a lot more fun to watch.

**Baby Lee** · 09-19-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

He asked which we preferred, not which was better. I prefer the offensive style of Vermiel to the all defense no offense style of Herm. The games were a lot more fun to watch.

Especially when one revels in organizational failure.

htismaqe · 09-19-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Especially when one revels in organizational failure.

Archie Bunker · 09-19-2006, 03:42 PM

Herm wants to be dominant on both sides of the ball. DV seemed to only care about his offense and it got the Chiefs no where. Anyone who thinks DV had any sort of success in his 5 yrs needs to look at the facts and not the gaudy offensive numbers that mean nothing. No playoff wins, 1 trip in 5 years, and a complete waste of the the best offense in the NFL.

If you are going to blame Herm for the offense's decline and ingore the fact that having 2 new tackles and a 3rd string QB playing has had more to do with the decline than anything Herm has done; then you also have to blame DV for the terrible defenses he fielded. Those defenses turned the Chiefs into a laughingstock and were historically bad.

DV was a failure plain and simple. Herm still has a chance at success and his formula is far more successful. A top defense and a punishing offense. It works year after year for various teams and coaches.

jspchief · 09-19-2006, 08:54 AM

We haven't seen enough to know what Herm's style is.

**2112** · 09-19-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

We haven't seen enough to know what Herm's style is.

sorry dude...

thats definitely it

chiefsfan1963 · 09-19-2006, 10:29 AM

DV and AS did a fabulous job here in KC. The team that Herm inherited was not in shambles unlike what DV inherited. Comparing the two is an APPLES To Oranges comparison. People like htis are "black and white" in their analysis and critiques.

The real problem is not the HC staff, but the common denominator that each HC has, namely CP!

It's a collective effort within the whole organization that ultimately determines who succeeds each year or not.

Marty and DV could have and Herm can succeed here if CP was not part of the equation.

I think my point will be proven this year expecially if Marty can take SD to the AFC Championship and beyond. I look at that team and the balance of offensive and defensive playmakers and I credit the GM's abilities for making that happen whereas during the 90's KC was dominate on D for most of the decade and below average at best on O. Marty did the best he could with what he had. CP did not do his job in helping Marty complete the team. The result was HEARTACHE for CHief's fans followed by IMPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!!

The same can be said with DV/AS but it was the Offense that was dominate and the D lacking!

Once CP leaves, finding the right GM will be key!

htismaqe · 09-19-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsfan1963

DV and AS did a fabulous job here in KC. The team that Herm inherited was not in shambles unlike what DV inherited. Comparing the two is an APPLES To Oranges comparison. People like htis are "black and white" in their analysis and critiques.

I'm not comparing Vermeil to Herm. If you'd bother to READ what I wrote, I said EXACTLY THAT - that you can't compare the two. See, Herm has been here for two games. Vermeil was here for 5 years. It's only valid to compare the two once Herm has been here long enough to examine his tenure in hindsight. There's no other way to do historical analysis because it's BY DEFINITION not historical if it HASN'T HAPPENED YET.

That being said, yes I am rigid in my criticism of Vermeil. One playoff appearance and ZERO wins in 5 years is about as "black and white" as you can get.

chiefsfan1963 · 09-19-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I'm not comparing Vermeil to Herm. If you'd bother to READ what I wrote, I said EXACTLY THAT - that you can't compare the two. See, Herm has been here for two games. Vermeil was here for 5 years. It's only valid to compare the two once Herm has been here long enough to examine his tenure in hindsight. There's no other way to do historical analysis because it's BY DEFINITION not historical if it HASN'T HAPPENED YET.

That being said, yes I am rigid in my criticism of Vermeil. One playoff appearance and ZERO wins in 5 years is about as "black and white" as you can get.

If you recall in my post Marty and DV could have succeeded big time here, but my argument is CP was the common denominator why they didn't.

Marty was able to consistently make the playoffs each year with the Chiefs. A bad coach couldn't do that. DV took 2 different franchises to the SB and won one. He was able to take a below average KC O and develop it to one of the BEST the last 5 years, a Bad Coach would not be able to accomplish this.

Marty and DV were not failures as coaches here, CP failed them and the fans!

The fact that we have everyone pointing fingers at DV and Herm and comparing and contrasting their coaching ability and style is missing the big picture, and CP is laughing all the way to the bank while the "villagers" are chattering and arguing with each other like fools.

TN_Chief · 09-19-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

We haven't seen enough to know what Herm's style is.

Wrong. Look at game films of the NY Jets for the past 5 years. Welcome to Hermball.

ChiefsfaninPA · 09-19-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN_Chief

Wrong. Look at game films of the NY Jets for the past 5 years. Welcome to Hermball.

Jet fans must really be hurt that their former head coach is here now. I understand. If Man-gina was my coach I would be upset as well. But fear not Mr. Gang-green because before Herm and now after Herm one thing will remain true........You did and will continue to suck.

Chiefnj · 09-19-2006, 11:01 AM

"We were a double-digit underdog last weekend BECAUSE OF VERMEIL."

View Poll Results: Do you prefer the Vermeil-style of play or the Herm-style of play?
Vermeil style	31	43.66%
Herm style	22	30.99%
Neither	18	25.35%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

09-19-2006, 08:46 AM	Topic Starter
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $-797094	Do you prefer the "old"/Vermeil style or the "new"/Herm style of play? Vermeil-era vs Herm-era (all 2 games of it) by the numbers from today's KC Star: New vs. Old: Comparing two coaches' styles The Kansas City Star It’s been only two games, but here’s how the Chiefs have fared in Herm Edwards’ brief tenure as coach (top) compared with five seasons under Dick Vermeil. Edwards Category Vermeil 8.0 Points for 27.0 16.0 Points against 22.9 129.0 Rush offense 137.3 130.5 Rush defense 124.4 153.5 Pass offense 243.6 146.5 Pass defense 232.4
Posts: 50,339

09-19-2006, 08:52 AM	#2
wolfpack0735 buttnaked is the only way tobe Join Date: May 2001 Location: B/T lost & nowhere in ks. Casino cash: $10008827	Hermie dosent have the tackles to play Vermeil`s offense but Hermie needs to get off page one of Vermeil`s play book. __________________ Three most important things in life... Chiefs football, Beer and women, all in that order!! Adopt - A - Chief Willie Lanier Old enough to remember WHAT a Super Bowl is!!
Posts: 534

09-19-2006, 08:53 AM	#3
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8089900	I voted neither, but I have to add one caveat: Anybody that voted for Vermeil is ignoring the obvious. IT DID NOT WORK. Period, end of story. Whether or not Herm's "style" succeeds here is still undecided. No matter how you feel on the CHANCE that it will succeed, the simple fact is that we don't have sufficient data to make a determination. We have 5 years of data on Vermeil. 5 years of failure.
Posts: 104,433

09-19-2006, 03:42 PM	#7
Archie Bunker The Wait Is Over Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Random Small Town Casino cash: $-701022	Herm wants to be dominant on both sides of the ball. DV seemed to only care about his offense and it got the Chiefs no where. Anyone who thinks DV had any sort of success in his 5 yrs needs to look at the facts and not the gaudy offensive numbers that mean nothing. No playoff wins, 1 trip in 5 years, and a complete waste of the the best offense in the NFL. If you are going to blame Herm for the offense's decline and ingore the fact that having 2 new tackles and a 3rd string QB playing has had more to do with the decline than anything Herm has done; then you also have to blame DV for the terrible defenses he fielded. Those defenses turned the Chiefs into a laughingstock and were historically bad. DV was a failure plain and simple. Herm still has a chance at success and his formula is far more successful. A top defense and a punishing offense. It works year after year for various teams and coaches.
Posts: 6,219

09-19-2006, 08:54 AM	#8
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	We haven't seen enough to know what Herm's style is. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

09-19-2006, 10:29 AM	#10
chiefsfan1963 Veteran Join Date: Oct 2001 Casino cash: $10005060	DV and AS did a fabulous job here in KC. The team that Herm inherited was not in shambles unlike what DV inherited. Comparing the two is an APPLES To Oranges comparison. People like htis are "black and white" in their analysis and critiques. The real problem is not the HC staff, but the common denominator that each HC has, namely CP! It's a collective effort within the whole organization that ultimately determines who succeeds each year or not. Marty and DV could have and Herm can succeed here if CP was not part of the equation. I think my point will be proven this year expecially if Marty can take SD to the AFC Championship and beyond. I look at that team and the balance of offensive and defensive playmakers and I credit the GM's abilities for making that happen whereas during the 90's KC was dominate on D for most of the decade and below average at best on O. Marty did the best he could with what he had. CP did not do his job in helping Marty complete the team. The result was HEARTACHE for CHief's fans followed by IMPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!! The same can be said with DV/AS but it was the Offense that was dominate and the D lacking! Once CP leaves, finding the right GM will be key!
Posts: 1,948

09-19-2006, 11:01 AM	#15
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	"We were a double-digit underdog last weekend BECAUSE OF VERMEIL." __________________ "I always tell (the assistant coaches), 'Make it simple, 'cause I'm stupid,'" Edwards said. "This ain't computer football." Herm Edwards, 3-20-07 Q: Herm, back on December 25th you were asked if Trent Green was your starter going into next season and you said, ‘yeah, why wouldn’t he be?’ Have you changed your mind on that? EDWARDS: No, I have not.” (1-11-07)
Posts: 6,811