Chiefs Rand:No good time

**Tribal Warfare** · 09-25-2008, 12:15 PM

No good time
Sep 25, 2008, 8:36:17 AM by Jonathan Rand - FAQ

If Herm Edwards and Chiefs fans are on different tracks this season, it’s because they’re not looking at the same timetable.

Edwards considers 2008 the first year of his rebuilding program. His fans consider it the third.

Consequently, the patience gap between Edwards and his public is bound to be even wider than you’d usually expect in a rebuilding season. Both perspectives are easy to understand.

Edwards would have preferred gutting his roster and rebuilding through the draft when he arrived in 2006. But circumstances discouraged that, and now he sees his program headed in the right direction.

Fans, however, see the Chiefs becoming farther removed from their first playoff victory since the 1993 season. By a coach’s third season, it’s usually time for a team to take off rather than start over.

In 2003, Dick Vermeil’s third season, the Chiefs started 9-0 and finished 13-3. Then they squandered home field advantage in a playoff loss to the Colts.

By the time Edwards took over that team, the expiration date of its core was coming up fast. But that date arrived even earlier than we could have guessed, and Edwards was caught in a bind.

The Chiefs finished 10-6 in Vermeil’s last season and seemed to have too much veteran talent to justify a teardown. When the 2006 Chiefs squeezed into the playoffs on the heels of a successful draft, it appeared Edwards might be able to gradually rebuild without bottoming out.

But then came a painful 4-12 season. It was time to patch the walls or demolish the house. Edwards compares this season with 1996, when he left the Chiefs to join Tony Dungy’s original Tampa Bay staff. The rebuilding Buccaneers started 1-8 start and rallied to finish 6-10.

“It’s never easy to do it,” Edwards said. “When you decide, you just do it.

“I can remember sitting on the couch in Tampa Bay and saying (to Dungy), ‘I left Kansas City and going to the playoffs every year and you’ve got me down here. Why are we doing this?’

“He said, ‘It’s going to be all right. We’re doing the right thing.’ Living through it I learned a valuable lesson about being patient and sticking with your conviction. It was the right thing to do and everything turned out good.”

But Dungy’s honeymoon was extended when the Buccaneers made the playoffs in 1997, as well as three of the next four years after that. It didn’t hurt that Dungy, a defensive-minded coach, inherited defensive tackle Warren Sapp, linebacker Derrick Brooks and safety John Lynch. All will be candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Edwards, on the other hand, inherited a defense that was Vermeil’s Achilles heel. Edwards barely started whipping his defense into shape when the bottom fell out of an offense that had led the league in 2004 and 2005. Now every room of the house needs walls and electricity.

An 0-3 start, entering Sunday’s game against the heavily favored Denver Broncos, makes it clear that Edwards’ third season won’t produce a breakthrough. Most people seem realistic enough to be satisfied with significant progress and a win here and there.

This would require in part that the Chiefs routinely stay competitive for four quarters, see their young defense learn to stop the run, and develop a successful quarterback.

Edwards might recall, however that Dungy never could develop a franchise quarterback until he took over at Indianapolis. In an odd twist of fate, he had two journeymen in Tampa, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, who won Super Bowls for other coaches.

Edwards is correct when he says there’s no good time to rebuild. But the sooner, the better. And the longer you wait, the tighter your schedule.

**Rausch** · 09-25-2008, 12:18 PM

Don't care.

No one told Herm/Carl to wait until year 3 to rebuild. Their decision.

Bye...

Chiefnj2 · 09-25-2008, 12:27 PM

I'm so sick of the Herm and Dungy days in Tampa.

Hammock Parties · 09-25-2008, 12:31 PM

This is a great article. Herm is basically a victim of circumstances.

triple · 09-25-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

This is a great article. Herm is basically a victim of circumstances.

oh go F yourself

**chasedude** · 09-25-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

This is a great article. Herm is basically a victim of circumstances.

Herm is no victim here. He made his bed so he must lie in it.

Hammock Parties · 09-25-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasedude

Herm is no victim here. He made his bed so he must lie in it.

I'd say Carl made the bed. With the assistance of John Welbourn, Chris Terry, etc...

**Tribal Warfare** · 09-25-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

This is a great article. Herm is basically a victim of circumstances.

how long will that excuse last? The man had a "dream: draft yet their isn't any progress especially on defense which supposedly is his expertise.

**Skip Towne** · 09-25-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

This is a great article. Herm is basically a victim of circumstances.

Then we need to get someone smart enough to not be "victimized by circumstances"

Hammock Parties · 09-25-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

Then we need to get someone smart enough to not be "victimized by circumstances"

That's the problem with the Chiefs. There are too many coaches who won't put up with Carl Peterson. Marty quit over it.

**Bwana** · 09-25-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

This is a great article. Herm is basically a victim of circumstances.

Dude, you're going to go through a pair of knee pads a week if you keep it up.

TrickyNicky · 09-25-2008, 12:40 PM

Herm isn't excused at all, but he came to this team and wasn't allowed to turn over the coaching staff. This is his first year with people he had a say in hiring. Gunther has been forced on him because Carl has a severe case of crony-ism.

Chiefnj2 · 09-25-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrickyNicky

Herm isn't excused at all, but he came to this team and wasn't allowed to turn over the coaching staff. This is his first year with people he had a say in hiring. Gunther has been forced on him because Carl has a severe case of crony-ism.

Herm was under contract in NY. He didn't have to go to a team that would allegedly exercise all control over his horrible decision making powers.

Hydrae · 09-25-2008, 12:42 PM

This is what happens when you bring in a different philosophy. The players who were here didn't fit Herm's way of doing things but he was not allowed to turn the roster over the way Vermiel did when he got here. The problem I have is that I don't have faith in "Herm's way."

TrickyNicky · 09-25-2008, 12:45 PM

We all know that. What I'm saying is with a better GM, of course Herm could be a better coach by far. Dungy is not a great X and O's coach or really a great motivator. He just has a knack for surrounding himself with Assistants and Coaches who are successful and innovative. He also drafts well. It's no wonder that Herm wants to be him so badly that he probably has a Tony shrine in the closet of his office at Arrowhead.

09-25-2008, 12:15 PM	Topic Starter
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-2997187	Rand:No good time No good time Sep 25, 2008, 8:36:17 AM by Jonathan Rand - FAQ If Herm Edwards and Chiefs fans are on different tracks this season, it’s because they’re not looking at the same timetable. Edwards considers 2008 the first year of his rebuilding program. His fans consider it the third. Consequently, the patience gap between Edwards and his public is bound to be even wider than you’d usually expect in a rebuilding season. Both perspectives are easy to understand. Edwards would have preferred gutting his roster and rebuilding through the draft when he arrived in 2006. But circumstances discouraged that, and now he sees his program headed in the right direction. Fans, however, see the Chiefs becoming farther removed from their first playoff victory since the 1993 season. By a coach’s third season, it’s usually time for a team to take off rather than start over. In 2003, Dick Vermeil’s third season, the Chiefs started 9-0 and finished 13-3. Then they squandered home field advantage in a playoff loss to the Colts. By the time Edwards took over that team, the expiration date of its core was coming up fast. But that date arrived even earlier than we could have guessed, and Edwards was caught in a bind. The Chiefs finished 10-6 in Vermeil’s last season and seemed to have too much veteran talent to justify a teardown. When the 2006 Chiefs squeezed into the playoffs on the heels of a successful draft, it appeared Edwards might be able to gradually rebuild without bottoming out. But then came a painful 4-12 season. It was time to patch the walls or demolish the house. Edwards compares this season with 1996, when he left the Chiefs to join Tony Dungy’s original Tampa Bay staff. The rebuilding Buccaneers started 1-8 start and rallied to finish 6-10. “It’s never easy to do it,” Edwards said. “When you decide, you just do it. “I can remember sitting on the couch in Tampa Bay and saying (to Dungy), ‘I left Kansas City and going to the playoffs every year and you’ve got me down here. Why are we doing this?’ “He said, ‘It’s going to be all right. We’re doing the right thing.’ Living through it I learned a valuable lesson about being patient and sticking with your conviction. It was the right thing to do and everything turned out good.” But Dungy’s honeymoon was extended when the Buccaneers made the playoffs in 1997, as well as three of the next four years after that. It didn’t hurt that Dungy, a defensive-minded coach, inherited defensive tackle Warren Sapp, linebacker Derrick Brooks and safety John Lynch. All will be candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Edwards, on the other hand, inherited a defense that was Vermeil’s Achilles heel. Edwards barely started whipping his defense into shape when the bottom fell out of an offense that had led the league in 2004 and 2005. Now every room of the house needs walls and electricity. An 0-3 start, entering Sunday’s game against the heavily favored Denver Broncos, makes it clear that Edwards’ third season won’t produce a breakthrough. Most people seem realistic enough to be satisfied with significant progress and a win here and there. This would require in part that the Chiefs routinely stay competitive for four quarters, see their young defense learn to stop the run, and develop a successful quarterback. Edwards might recall, however that Dungy never could develop a franchise quarterback until he took over at Indianapolis. In an odd twist of fate, he had two journeymen in Tampa, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, who won Super Bowls for other coaches. Edwards is correct when he says there’s no good time to rebuild. But the sooner, the better. And the longer you wait, the tighter your schedule.
Posts: 43,454

09-25-2008, 12:27 PM	#3
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	I'm so sick of the Herm and Dungy days in Tampa. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541

09-25-2008, 12:31 PM	#4
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $800478	This is a great article. Herm is basically a victim of circumstances.
Posts: 297,436

09-25-2008, 12:40 PM	#12
TrickyNicky My Black Friend, Alan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Manhattan Casino cash: $10007047	Herm isn't excused at all, but he came to this team and wasn't allowed to turn over the coaching staff. This is his first year with people he had a say in hiring. Gunther has been forced on him because Carl has a severe case of crony-ism.
Posts: 3,648

09-25-2008, 12:42 PM	#14
Hydrae MVP Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Newport, Or Casino cash: $-1163000	This is what happens when you bring in a different philosophy. The players who were here didn't fit Herm's way of doing things but he was not allowed to turn the roster over the way Vermiel did when he got here. The problem I have is that I don't have faith in "Herm's way." __________________ My 2024 Adopt-A-Chief: Rashee Rice
Posts: 14,858

09-25-2008, 12:45 PM	#15
TrickyNicky My Black Friend, Alan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Manhattan Casino cash: $10007047	We all know that. What I'm saying is with a better GM, of course Herm could be a better coach by far. Dungy is not a great X and O's coach or really a great motivator. He just has a knack for surrounding himself with Assistants and Coaches who are successful and innovative. He also drafts well. It's no wonder that Herm wants to be him so badly that he probably has a Tony shrine in the closet of his office at Arrowhead.
Posts: 3,648