Cash for your Gas Guzzler from Uncle Sam?

[Kerberos]

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...NoLWNsdW5rZXJz

This is informative so I hope it doesn't end up lost in the black hole of DC


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress approved a "cash for clunkers" program Thursday to provide government incentives of $3,500 to $4,500 to motorists who trade in their gas guzzlers for more fuel efficient vehicles after Senate Democrats narrowly defeated a Republican effort to kill the plan.

Auto state senators said the program would help hard-pressed car dealers and automakers by bringing buyers into showrooms, and they got help from President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, who made calls to wavering Democrats urging them to keep the plan alive.

"This is an emergency for families and small businesses -- for an industry that has been the backbone of our economy for a generation," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., who sponsored the proposal.

Opponents said it would increase the federal debt without doing much to get expensive-to-operate vehicles off the roads.

Senate supporters of the program overcame a procedural hurdle by the plan's leading opponent, Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., on a 60-36 vote, winning the minimum number of votes needed to keep the program in a $106 billion war-spending plan that the Senate passed later Thursday.

The House approved the cash for clunkers bill last week on a vote of 298-119 and Senate Democrats attached it to the war-spending bill. The overall bill now goes to the White House for Obama's signature.

Four Republicans -- Kit Bond of Missouri, Thad Cochran of Mississippi, Susan Collins of Maine and George Voinovich of Ohio -- voted with two independents and 54 Democrats in favor of the clunker measure, while Democrat Ben Nelson of Nebraska was opposed along with 35 Republicans.

Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., changed her vote to support the vehicle incentive plan and spoke by phone with Obama during the vote.

Cantwell spokeswoman Ciaran Clayton said Obama "acknowledged Senator Cantwell's concerns that the cash- for-clunkers program ... did not do enough to meet our nation's urgent need to reduce foreign oil dependence" and vowed to work with Cantwell and others to "maximize the number of efficient cars on America's roads."

In addition to Cantwell, Obama and Biden reached out to Democrats Patrick Leahy of Vermont, Claire McCaskill of Missouri and Michael Bennet of Colorado, according to two people familiar with the outreach. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

Obama has encouraged Congress to approve the consumer incentives for new car purchases as part of the government's efforts to restructure General Motors Corp. and Chrysler Group LLC. The bill provides $1 billion for the program from July through November.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who supported a plan with more stringent requirements to receive the vouchers, said she received "absolute assurance" from Senate leaders that if the program was continued beyond November it would be modeled after the bill she pushed.

Supporters said the program, which would be implemented by the Transportation Department, was expected to be implemented by early August.

The auto industry and its union lobbied heavily for passage of the cash for clunkers plan as GM and Chrysler have received billions of dollars in government-led bankruptcies and the entire auto industry has dealt with plummeting car sales. In May, overall sales were 34 percent lower than a year ago.

Under the proposal, car owners could get a voucher worth $3,500 if they traded in a vehicle getting 18 miles per gallon or less for one getting at least 22 mpg. The value of the voucher would grow to $4,500 if the mileage of the new car was 10 mpg higher than the old vehicle. The miles per gallon figures are listed on the car window's sticker.

Owners of sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks or minivans that get 18 mpg or less could receive a voucher for $3,500 if their new truck or SUV got at least 2 mpg higher than their old vehicle. The voucher would increase to $4,500 if the mileage of the new truck or SUV was at least 5 mpg higher than the older vehicle.

Dealers participating in the program would receive an electronic voucher from the government for the trade-in to apply to the purchase or lease of a qualifying vehicle. The bill directs dealers to ensure that the older vehicles are crushed or shredded to get the clunkers off the road.

The program was intended to help replace older vehicles -- built in model year 1984 or later -- and would not make financial sense for consumers owning an older car with a trade-in value greater than $3,500 or $4,500.

The U.S. industry is expected to generate about 9.5 million vehicles sales in 2009, compared with more than 13 million in 2008 and more than 16 million in 2007.

Associated Press writer Matthew Daly contributed to this report.

The bill is H.R. 2346.

[Otter]

Hippies

[El Jefe]

Originally Posted by Otter

**** YOU HIPPIES!!!!

I'm off to run over some wild life in my 4x4 then back over them in four-low using as much gas as possible to make sure their dead.

I drive my 79 Cutlass Big Block as much as possible, just to offset that hybrid that I pass on the freeway everyday.

[Kerberos]

Meh...

My 94 Suburban gets about 10-12MPG at best.

I don't see the specifics on the trade in policy. Are they taking these gas guzzlers to junk'em or can I get the dealer to give me some $ for it on top of the gov't buy back?

If I could get $6K total for my Suburban that would help on a vehicle purchase.

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by Kerberos

Meh...

My 94 Suburban gets about 10-12MPG at best.

I don't see the specifics on the trade in policy. Are they taking these gas guzzlers to junk'em or can I get the dealer to give me some $ for it on top of the gov't buy back?

If I could get $6K total for my Suburban that would help on a vehicle purchase.

The way I understand it your car has to be '84 or older and worth less that $3,500/4,500 and the gov't just makes up the difference at trade in time. For example, if you had an '81 Suburban worth $1,000 you'd get a credit for $2,500/3,500 depending on the mpg of your new vehicle.

The program was intended to help replace older vehicles -- built in model year 1984 or later -- and would not make financial sense for consumers owning an older car with a trade-in value greater than $3,500 or $4,500.

[Kerberos]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

The way I understand it your car has to be '84 or older and worth less that $3,500/4,500 and the gov't just makes up the difference at trade in time. For example, if you had an '81 Suburban worth $1,000 you'd get a credit for $2,500/3,500 depending on the mpg of your new vehicle.

84 and LATER means newer.

84 and Earlier would suggest older. IIRC?

This would keep someone from putting $100 into a piece of crap 1977 Pinto to run just far enought to get it to a lot to get $3500 to $4500 for it.

Originally Posted by rad

You didn't read the article.......

Dealers participating in the program would receive an electronic voucher from the government for the trade-in to apply to the purchase or lease of a qualifying vehicle. The bill directs dealers to ensure that the older vehicles are crushed or shredded to get the clunkers off the road.

Yea I just skimmed the article. I missed that.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Kerberos

84 and LATER means newer.

84 and Earlier would suggest older. IIRC?

This would keep someone from putting $100 into a piece of crap 1977 Pinto to run just far enought to get it to a lot to get $3500 to $4500 for it.



Yea I just skimmed the article. I missed that.

Originally Posted by LaChapelle

Sell you a clunker next door to the new car dealership. To trade in.

You have to have owned the car for over a year to qualify.

[LaChapelle]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

You have to have owned the car for over a year to qualify.

They can pull a 4 banger out and put a v-8 in. Probably don't even have to bolt it up. You know shit like this is going to happen.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

The way I understand it your car has to be '84 or older and worth less that $3,500/4,500 and the gov't just makes up the difference at trade in time. For example, if you had an '81 Suburban worth $1,000 you'd get a credit for $2,500/3,500 depending on the mpg of your new vehicle.

Actually it is 85 or newer.

Radar Chief posted good info in DC about this

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Appears that this may not be the sweetheart deal I thought it was going to be. For instance, anything pre ’85 is ineligible. Not out of any respect for auto-restorers, but because the fuel mileage of vehicles isn’t tracked any further back than that.
More at the link.

http://jalopnik.com/5285032/cash-for...ses-we-analyze
· Cash For Clunkers Bill: House Passes, We Analyze

By Matt Hardigree, 6:25 PM on Tue Jun 9 2009, 15,855 views (Edit post, Set to draft, Slurp)
· The Community Assistance to Recycle and Save Act (CARS Act), more commonly known as the Cash for Clunkers bill, passed the U.S. House of Representatives moments ago by a vote of 298-to-119. So how's it work?
The concept behind "cash for clunkers" as practiced by both the House and Senate versions of the bill, as well as successfully in other countries, is to create demand for new cars and raise fuel efficiency standards by encouraging consumers to trade in their gas guzzling "clunkers" for more efficient vehicles and, as an incentive, to give them cash.
The compromise House version of the CARS Act (HR 2751) proposes $3,500 or $4,500 vouchers for consumers interested in trading up to a more efficient vehicle. Once the program is enacted you'll have approximately one year to make the move. The hope is the Act will increase new vehicle sales by one million units in the first year at a time when the market is expected to experience sales of less than 10 million. The bill still has to go to the Senate, where it's expected some tweaks will be made before a final bill goes to the President.
How do you qualify for the voucher?

For Passenger Cars
If you have a passenger automobile not classified as a truck you qualify for a $3,500 credit if you trade in a less efficient vehicle for one with a combined fuel economy value at least 4 MPG higher that costs less than $45,000. The passenger car being trading in has to get 18 MPG or less, meaning you can't trade in a first generation Prius for a newer one. Additionally, the new vehicle has to get 22 MPG or better. In order to qualify for $4,500 you need to buy a vehicle that gets 10 MPG better combined than your trade-in.

For Light Duty Truck And SUVs
If you decide you want to trade in your category 1 light truck or SUV you need to find a new vehicle capable of getting a combined MPG of better than 18 MPG. If the new vehicle gets 2 MPG better you're eligible for $3,500. If you want the full $4,500 you need to find a new truck capable of getting a combined mileage 5 MPG higher.

For Heavy Duty Trucks And Vans
If you have a large Class 1 truck you're eligible for a $3,500 voucher if you trade up for one capable of getting at least 15 MPG combined and gets 1 MPG combined. For $4,500 the new vehicle will also have to provide performance 2 MPG or better than the trade in.

For Work Trucks
The best you can get for trading up to a Class 2 truck like a Ford F-250, is $3,500. In order to get this voucher you need to be trading in a vehicle with a model year older than 2001 for a new truck of smaller or similar size. Because of recent federal regulation changes, it's assumed the new truck is going to have a higher fuel economy.

Trading Up
After receiving questions about this from commenters, we contacted the sponsoring Congresswoman's staff and they assured us you can trade up from a truck or SUV to a passenger car (or smaller truck) assuming the new vehicles meets the minimum requirements (18 MPG or better, under $45,000) and is more efficient than the trade-in.

No Cheating
Those wishing to buy an older junked car for $200 and trade it in for $4,500 towards a new car are going to be dissapointed. The bill requires you to own and operate the car for more than a year before trading it in and it has to be in drivable condition, meaning the clunker can't be overly clunky.

No Old Cars
Many car enthusiasts fearful someone will trade in a rare classic will applaud the section limiting the cars to those produced in model year 1985 or after. Of course, this wasn't done for the sake of car fans. They can't easily determine the combined fuel economy of vehicles before the date because the EPA didn't track this data.

To The Crusher!
The law is very explicit on this point: the car has to be crushed. No salvaging it. No retitling it. No shipping it off to another country. The car has to be crushed and the title has to be transferred. Anyone trying to pass the voucher off and then resell the car could be penalized $15,000 per violation. However, you can strip and sell any part of the car that isn't the engine block.

[rad]

Originally Posted by Kerberos

Meh...

My 94 Suburban gets about 10-12MPG at best.

I don't see the specifics on the trade in policy. Are they taking these gas guzzlers to junk'em or can I get the dealer to give me some $ for it on top of the gov't buy back?

If I could get $6K total for my Suburban that would help on a vehicle purchase.

You didn't read the article.......

Dealers participating in the program would receive an electronic voucher from the government for the trade-in to apply to the purchase or lease of a qualifying vehicle. The bill directs dealers to ensure that the older vehicles are crushed or shredded to get the clunkers off the road.

[Lzen]

Oh yeah!! More spent tax dollars.

[burt]

Another reason for people to delay purchasing a new vehicle......BRILLIANT!

[Brock]

Originally Posted by burt

Another reason for people to delay purchasing a new vehicle......BRILLIANT!

Delay? It's about to be signed into law.

[burt]

Originally Posted by Brock

Delay? It's about to be signed into law.

And people are waiting for it to be law.........

[Brock]

Originally Posted by burt

And people are waiting for it to be law.........

Pfft. It figures, you guys are getting bailed out and you bitch about how long it takes.