Chiefs This is why we didn't focus on the front 7...

Hootie · 04-26-2010, 03:57 PM

I said this during last year...and was always hit by a Hamas stat about how bad our rush defense was...

I always thought our biggest problem was our pass defense and our inability to get off the field on 3rd and long. I always cheered for the opposition to waste a 2nd down on a run play...because we were better in 3rd and 3 than we were in 3rd and 10 defensively...

Teams knew this too...our rush defense got a bad wrap because we were consistently losing by 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and teams like the Giants...who gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to bad their rushing stats...and the Ravens...and even the Cowboys game 1/4th of their rushing yards came on one long run (kind of like the Skins game when we shut down Portis minus one long run as well)...

The formula for beating us last year? A good passing game...and we made even marginal passing games look AMAZING. Just check this out:

Flacco 300+ yards (96 rating)

Oakland beat us averaging 2.7 YPC in week 2

Kolb 300 + yards (120 rating)

E. Manning 292 yards (104 rating)

Romo 350 yards (113 rating)

Rivers 270 yards (123 rating)

Garrard 270 yards (111 rating)

Rivers 300+ yards (136 rating)

Orton 180 yards (92 rating) 245 rush yards allowed

Edwards (66 rating) 200 rush yards allowed

Quinn (28 rating) 350 rush yards allowed

Palmer (92 rating) Benson 4.6 YPC

...

Anyone see the trend here? It's nice that guys like OTWP like to conveniently ignore what we were REALLY bad at last year.

DJ's left nut · 04-26-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

I said this during last year...and was always hit by a Hamas stat about how bad our rush defense was...

I always thought our biggest problem was our pass defense and our inability to get off the field on 3rd and long. I always cheered for the opposition to waste a 2nd down on a run play...because we were better in 3rd and 3 than we were in 3rd and 10 defensively...

Teams knew this too...our rush defense got a bad wrap because we were consistently losing by 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and teams like the Giants...who gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to bad their rushing stats...and the Ravens...and even the Cowboys game 1/4th of their rushing yards came on one long run (kind of like the Skins game when we shut down Portis minus one long run as well)...

The formula for beating us last year? A good passing game...and we made even marginal passing games look AMAZING. Just check this out:

Flacco 300+ yards (96 rating)

Oakland beat us averaging 2.7 YPC in week 2

Kolb 300 + yards (120 rating)

E. Manning 292 yards (104 rating)

Romo 350 yards (113 rating)

Rivers 270 yards (123 rating)

Garrard 270 yards (111 rating)

Rivers 300+ yards (136 rating)

Orton 180 yards (92 rating) 245 rush yards allowed

Edwards (66 rating) 200 rush yards allowed

Quinn (28 rating) 350 rush yards allowed

Palmer (92 rating) Benson 4.6 YPC

...

Anyone see the trend here? It's nice that guys like OTWP like to conveniently ignore what we were REALLY bad at last year.

You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

****ing. Awesome.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 04-26-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

****ing. Awesome.

/thread.

That was quick.

ToxSocks · 04-26-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

/thread.

That was quick.

.

orange · 04-26-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

You almost tripled your number of sacks from 2008. That's something.

FlaChief58 · 04-26-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

****ing. Awesome.

Yes our D sucked pretty much everywhere, but by hopefully improving our O, we helped our D by being able to put together drives instead of 3 & out's, thereby keeping the D off the field. Granted I was hoping for a defensive draft, but I can see where we're going. GO

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 04-26-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flachief58

Yes our D sucked pretty much everywhere, but by hopefully improving our O, we helped our D by being able to put together drives instead of 3 & out's, thereby keeping the D off the field. Granted I was hoping for a defensive draft, but I can see where we're going. GO

I'm trying to get right here. At least until September.

chiefzilla1501 · 04-26-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

****ing. Awesome.

Well, again, we had problems everywhere. Poor pass offense, poor pass defense, poor run defense, poor return game. We chose to upgrade everywhere but run defense. That doesn't mean the Chiefs don't care. That doesn't mean it's not absolute #1 priority for next season. That's the reason why I don't understand the panic. While I"d love to win more now, I'm more interested in seeing if we take a big step in the right direction. We didn't in 2009 and we wasted a year. I think we can take a major step forward in 2010, if the picks work right. If.

In terms of some ways that our upgrades can trickle into run defense, while some say ignore it, there's no doubt that upgrading at D-coordinator will make at least some difference. As well as some very mild improvements by having Shaun Smith instead of Ron Edwards. Also, you'd expect at least SOME improvement from Dorsey and Jackson. Those are things we already know and they won't be enough.

The small things you also have to account for is how a good offense can keep your defense on the field--so many of the first halves of our games were dominated by three and outs on offense. There were plenty of drives last year where our run defense did their job, but we were absolutely horrendous at third down efficiency. Adding a coverage guy like Berry and a nickel back that's better than Washington (not hard to do) won't solve everything, but it helps us improve. Those things help keep the defense off the field. How many big run plays do we eliminate by Berry being on the field instead of Mike Brown? Does having a rangy Safety like Berry allow our LBs to focus more on the run, instead of being asked to cover our Safeties' asses much of the time? Does our faster, better secondary make us more equipped to stop the outside run?

Obviously we have a long way to go and our run defense is going to be our achilles heel. But that doesn't bother me that much unless we take a big step backward as a team or we stake only a very small step forward on pass offense, run offense, and pass defense. If our picks work out, then you can devote all your 2011 focus on the LBs and NT.

aturnis · 04-26-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You know that we were REALLY bad at pretty much every single facet of playing defense last year, right?

Pass defense, rush defense, putting our cleats on the right foot. Mostly, our defense couldn't do a single thing well.

And we used the 36th overall on a scat-back and the 50th on a kick returner/corner blitzer.

We still have no LBs. We still have no SS. We still have a garbage set of down-linemen.

We will continue to suck at stopping the pass because we can't get any heat on the QB and even when we do, our LBs are all so slow and so awful that the middle of the field will be open to anyone that wants it. We will also continue to suck at stopping the run because of aforementioned old/slow/weak LBs and garbage down-linemen.

No, nobody's overlooking what we "really struggled" at. We "really struggled" at damn near everything. So we went out and put shiny new rims and a chrome rearview mirror on our '76 Fiat.

****ing. Awesome.

Think it's funny that OTWP would call that /thread. It wreaks of idiocy.

This statement here is completely wrong. How is the middle of the field going to be "open to anyone who wants it" when we have a guy like Berry who can play up in the box taking away the short middle, and a guy like Arenas, whom Pioli and Haley basically said his main value comes from his ability to move inside and cover the slot. While not everyone can do that, they believe Arenas can. Not to mention this is DJ's strength.

The problem last year was, that even if we took away the outside receivers and god pressure(which most of the time, Hali did) the QB could just toss one across the middle and find an open TE.

With the new players, it should make our coverage better, giving our line more time to get pressure. With another year each under TJ and Dorsey's belts, they should each be a little more effective on third down. Not to mention the addition of Shaun Smith and whomever we get before the season starts should be able to collapse the pocket better than Ron Edwards. These factors will give Tamba that extra 1/2 second he needs to get there to the QB, and negate his ability to step forward to avoid the rush. Thus improving the pass rush.

Said QB can try to force a pass, and may get lucky, but he stands more of a chance now, of throwing balls like Orton threw to DJ last year. Only now, we should have 3 guys in the middle who can take the ball away, knock it down, or aid the passrushers by buying time.

Defense should be MUCH improved. Simply for the ability to get off of the field on 3rd down. Sorry, Meat Dragon's right.

The funny thing is though, that Dane is the only drafturbator left who can be respected. He, like the rest of the drafturbators wanted playmakers. When the Chiefs went out and got them, they all cried foul, b/c they weren't the playmakers that they had wanted. Proving they were only negative, for negative sake. Kudos Dane, you've gained my respect, not that you care...

jspchief · 04-26-2010, 04:05 PM

And a front 7 doesn't affect the passing game?

Hootie · 04-26-2010, 04:05 PM

our run defense wasn't our true weakness last year...

it was our pass defense and yes, our ability to get to the QB...

Berry and Arenas are going to be difference makers from day 1...

If our offense can sustain some drives and give us some leads late in games...we'll see that rush defense improve...just because of our offense alone.

But people like OTWP want to hide behind stats because they don't like to rely on what they see with their own two eyes.

DJ's left nut · 04-26-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

our run defense wasn't our true weakness last year...

it was our pass defense and yes, our ability to get to the QB...

Berry and Arenas are going to be difference makers from day 1...

If our offense can sustain some drives and give us some leads late in games...we'll see that rush defense improve...just because of our offense alone.

But people like OTWP want to hide behind stats because they don't like to rely on what they see with their own two eyes.

I saw a bunch of old linebackers a step behind every intermediate route that the opposition ran. I saw several QBs with interminable amounts of time in the pocket because the down-lineman couldn't generate even the beginnings of a push in the pocket.

I saw a defense that sucked at stopping the pass for the same reasons it sucked at stopping the run. It's old, it's slow, it's overmatched physically.

Guess what? -- The front 7 will remain old and/or slow and/or overmatched.

And I'll see all of this with my own two eyes.

Ralphy Boy · 04-26-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

And a front 7 doesn't affect the passing game?

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

our run defense wasn't our true weakness last year...

it was our pass defense and yes, our ability to get to the QB...

Berry and Arenas are going to be difference makers from day 1...

If our offense can sustain some drives and give us some leads late in games...we'll see that rush defense improve...just because of our offense alone.

But people like OTWP want to hide behind stats because they don't like to rely on what they see with their own two eyes.

Look man you need to chill out with constantly going after certain posters on here. The QB ratings you posted wouldn't be as high if we had a pass rush.

The guy I thought would improve our team more than anyone was Brandon Graham because he can get to the QB very well and play the run. He was, IMO, the best all around OLB prospect in the draft. I'm not saying he was worth the #5 pick, but I said quite some time ago that as long as our run defense was horrible, adding Berry wouldn't provide as big an impact to improving the team.

If a runner is getting into your secondary over and over again, then your front 7 suck. THAT is the bottom line.

They basically chose to ignore the front seven and THAT is the problem most of us have with this draft.

jspchief · 04-26-2010, 04:06 PM

Inability to collapse the pocket has been a weakness for years. It makes our pass rushers have to be that much better to do their job.

Hootie · 04-26-2010, 04:08 PM

I think it's funny you idiots were SO CONCERNED about teams running for 400 yards against us every game...but you fail to see that our defense has not taken any sort of a step backwards this offseason...that didn't happen last year...and even when we had NO IDENTITY and a shit ass DC...teams still elected to beat us through the air...not on the ground.

DO YOU NOT GET THAT?

OTHER THAN JEMARCUS RUSSELL, BRADY QUINN AND TRENT EDWARDS...TEAMS WITH REAL QB'S OFFENSIVE GAME PLAN WAS TO BEAT US WITH THE PASS RELENTLESSLY...UNTIL WE WERE DONE...AND THEN JUST PILE ON WITH SOME RUSHING ATTEMPTS.

That was the game plan.

As evidenced by every single QB ass raping our defense for our first 9 losses.

04-26-2010, 03:57 PM	Topic Starter
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	This is why we didn't focus on the front 7... I said this during last year...and was always hit by a Hamas stat about how bad our rush defense was... I always thought our biggest problem was our pass defense and our inability to get off the field on 3rd and long. I always cheered for the opposition to waste a 2nd down on a run play...because we were better in 3rd and 3 than we were in 3rd and 10 defensively... Teams knew this too...our rush defense got a bad wrap because we were consistently losing by 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and teams like the Giants...who gashed us with the pass all game long...used their final possessions to bad their rushing stats...and the Ravens...and even the Cowboys game 1/4th of their rushing yards came on one long run (kind of like the Skins game when we shut down Portis minus one long run as well)... The formula for beating us last year? A good passing game...and we made even marginal passing games look AMAZING. Just check this out: Flacco 300+ yards (96 rating) Oakland beat us averaging 2.7 YPC in week 2 Kolb 300 + yards (120 rating) E. Manning 292 yards (104 rating) Romo 350 yards (113 rating) Rivers 270 yards (123 rating) Garrard 270 yards (111 rating) Rivers 300+ yards (136 rating) Orton 180 yards (92 rating) 245 rush yards allowed Edwards (66 rating) 200 rush yards allowed Quinn (28 rating) 350 rush yards allowed Palmer (92 rating) Benson 4.6 YPC ... Anyone see the trend here? It's nice that guys like OTWP like to conveniently ignore what we were REALLY bad at last year.
Posts: 56,356

04-26-2010, 04:05 PM	#10
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	And a front 7 doesn't affect the passing game? __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

04-26-2010, 04:05 PM	#11
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	our run defense wasn't our true weakness last year... it was our pass defense and yes, our ability to get to the QB... Berry and Arenas are going to be difference makers from day 1... If our offense can sustain some drives and give us some leads late in games...we'll see that rush defense improve...just because of our offense alone. But people like OTWP want to hide behind stats because they don't like to rely on what they see with their own two eyes.
Posts: 56,356

04-26-2010, 04:06 PM	#14
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	Inability to collapse the pocket has been a weakness for years. It makes our pass rushers have to be that much better to do their job. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

04-26-2010, 04:08 PM	#15
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	I think it's funny you idiots were SO CONCERNED about teams running for 400 yards against us every game...but you fail to see that our defense has not taken any sort of a step backwards this offseason...that didn't happen last year...and even when we had NO IDENTITY and a shit ass DC...teams still elected to beat us through the air...not on the ground. DO YOU NOT GET THAT? OTHER THAN JEMARCUS RUSSELL, BRADY QUINN AND TRENT EDWARDS...TEAMS WITH REAL QB'S OFFENSIVE GAME PLAN WAS TO BEAT US WITH THE PASS RELENTLESSLY...UNTIL WE WERE DONE...AND THEN JUST PILE ON WITH SOME RUSHING ATTEMPTS. That was the game plan. As evidenced by every single QB ass raping our defense for our first 9 losses.
Posts: 56,356