WWII Deaths

[Amnorix]

A fascinating video. Maybe it should go in DC, but it's history and I think has a wider pool of potentially interested people, so

[gblowfish]

There's too many of us....there's too many of us....there's too many there's too many there's too many....

[Otter]

I often wonder the outcome of WWII if Germany allied with Russia instead of invading. Not 100% the Axis would have won but wow, the land campaigns would have been so much more brutal for the Allies.

Thanks for link.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Otter

I often wonder the outcome of WWII if Germany allied with Russia instead of invading. Not 100% the Axis would have won but wow, the land campaigns would have been so much more brutal for the Allies.

Thanks for link.

Well, ultimately we win for one simple reason, see below, but the entire war would have been much, much, much uglier.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Otter

I often wonder the outcome of WWII if Germany allied with Russia instead of invading. Not 100% the Axis would have won but wow, the land campaigns would have been so much more brutal for the Allies.

Thanks for link.

Had we not invaded and pushed across when we did, we were about two to three months from being completely ****ed by the Germans.

They were very, VERY close to completing technology that would have decimated the allies.

As luck would have it, we were more than happy to commandeer those brilliant minds and put them to work, post-Berlin.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

Had we not invaded and pushed across when we did, we were about two to three months from being completely ****ed by the Germans.

They were very, VERY close to completing technology that would have decimated the allies.

As luck would have it, we were more than happy to commandeer those brilliant minds and put them to work, post-Berlin.

What technology? Jet engines on planes, which Hitler undervalued, misused and ignored? Dumb ballistic missiles that could not be targetted on strategic targets and had pathetically small warheads? Nuclear weapons, the program that was essentially deprioritized early in the war and was absolutely nowhere near completion? Longer-range submarines, which were crippled by Doenitz's centralized control requirements when Enigma had been cracked?

By 1944 nothing was going to save the Germans except the atomic bomb, and they didn't have it, and weren't even trying hard to get it.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

What technology? Jet engines on planes, which Hitler undervalued, misused and ignored? Dumb ballistic missiles that could not be targetted on strategic targets and had pathetically small warheads? Nuclear weapons, the program that was essentially deprioritized early in the war and was absolutely nowhere near completion? Longer-range submarines, which were crippled by Doenitz's centralized control requirements when Enigma had been cracked?

By 1944 nothing was going to save the Germans except the atomic bomb, and they didn't have it, and weren't even trying hard to get it.

Coming from a defender of BB, I'm going to pass on your assessment.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

Coming from a defender of BB, I'm going to pass on your assessment.

What technology? You could've written the answer in as many words as you typed, but instead tried a pathetic dodge.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

Had we not invaded and pushed across when we did, we were about two to three months from being completely ****ed by the Germans.

They were very, VERY close to completing technology that would have decimated the allies.

As luck would have it, we were more than happy to commandeer those brilliant minds and put them to work, post-Berlin.

What technology?

[Psyko Tek]

Originally Posted by Donger

What technology?

the spear of destiny
the ark of the covenant
philosopher's stone
the holy grail
the brass monkey
the jewel of the nile
the last of the mohicans

you know shit like that

and that dude's false eye

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by Psyko Tek

the spear of destiny
the ark of the covenant
philosopher's stone
the holy grail
the brass monkey
the jewel of the nile
the last of the mohicans

you know shit like that

and that dude's false eye

You forgot the monkey fist.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Otter

I often wonder the outcome of WWII if Germany allied with Russia instead of invading. Not 100% the Axis would have won but wow, the land campaigns would have been so much more brutal for the Allies.

Thanks for link.

I don't understand the question - what if two nations that despised each other suddenly decided to ally? Wonder why you asked that. Assuming they didn't hate each other, the obvious answer is that they'd rule the world and with ease. German technology and creativity + Russian mapower and natural resources would dominate.



Put it this way: in London just after the war's conclusion, Scotland Yard tried to figure out how the West should proceed with the Soviet Union (who was now in Germany and hence on their doorstep). A memo to Churchill concluded that it would take the entire armies of England, the USA, France, and even a re-constituted German army to repel any USSR invasion.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I don't understand the question - what if two nations that despised each other suddenly decided to ally? Wonder why you asked that. Assuming they didn't hate each other, the obvious answer is that they'd rule the world and with ease. German technology and creativity + Russian mapower and natural resources would dominate.



Put it this way: in London just after the war's conclusion, Scotland Yard tried to figure out how the West should proceed with the Soviet Union (who was now in Germany and hence on their doorstep). A memo to Churchill concluded that it would take the entire armies of England, the USA, France, and even a re-constituted German army to repel any USSR invasion.

Really? The London Police Department (fancy name, but that's what it is) concluded that?! Wow, must be definitive then!

It's bullshit. First, we had friggin nukes, and the Soviets still didn't have any long-range bombers worth the name. Second, IF we had had time to redeploy (and fully mobilize) then the US/UK (plus commonwealths) would have far more population and far more troops, potentially, then the Soviet Union.

I'm not saying by any means that it's some kind of cakewalk. FAR from it, but

Originally Posted by Putin's Bitch, again with the Russia-love

the obvious answer is that they'd rule the world and with ease

IS COMPLETELY WRONG.


Edit to note that Russia would have zero capacity to launch any kind of amphibious assault against England, much less cross the ocean and attack the U.S. Their "navy" at the end of WWII was a complete joke. Like basically non-existent.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Really? The London Police Department (fancy name, but that's what it is) concluded that?! Wow, must be definitive then!

It's bullshit. First, we had friggin nukes, and the Soviets still didn't have any long-range bombers worth the name. Second, IF we had had time to redeploy (and fully mobilize) then the US/UK (plus commonwealths) would have far more population and far more troops, potentially, then the Soviet Union.

I'm not saying by any means that it's some kind of cakewalk. FAR from it, but



IS COMPLETELY WRONG.


Edit to note that Russia would have zero capacity to launch any kind of amphibious assault against England, much less cross the ocean and attack the U.S. Their "navy" at the end of WWII was a complete joke. Like basically non-existent.

Since you didn't read Otters hypothetical, he asked what would've happened had the two allied. And that answer is simple: they'd have overrun Europe (including England) in a matter of weeks.


Your nuke rebuttal won't work because by the time America developed and tested it, we were already deep in 1944. All allied lands would've already been conquered and hence those forces would've been impossible to dislodge. If you're arguing for raining nukes down on Berlin and Moscow, they'd retaliate instantly by liquidating allied civilian populations under their control.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Since you didn't read Otters hypothetical, he asked what would've happened had the two allied. And that answer is simple: they'd have overrun Europe (including England) in a matter of weeks.

Europe, YES. But, well, actually, Germany did that all by itself, so that's not giving up much.

England is still going to be a huge problem. The fundamental problem the Germans had was that they couldn't dominate either the skies over England and the English channel, or create a safe environment for ships to transport troops to England, and then resupply them.

Would Russia/Germany together (assuming no US involvement) be able to get there eventually? Yes. Really no doubt.

"in a matter of weeks"? Absolutely not. WTF were they going to do? Row over there with no ****ing tanks, no local air superiority and no naval superiority? That ain't happening.

Your nuke rebuttal won't work because by the time America developed and tested it, we were already deep in 1944. All allied lands would've already been conquered and hence those forces would've been impossible to dislodge.

What "allied lands"? Allied territory in Europe? Yes.

If the US gets involved earlier, however, due to Russia/German designs on England (it's all a big hypothetical), then England never gets invaded. With US focusing assistance on England, Germany/Russia will take absolutely forever to get the necessary sea/air power to mount a serious offensive, and though that eventually could be done I think, the US/UK will develop nukes first.

Keep in mind you have a logistical problem here -- the Soviets are pretty freaking far away from England, have no navy worth the name, no heavy bombers, not really even good medium bombers, and their best forces, like the Germans, are their ground troops, which are going to have a real problem crossing that little patch of water between Frnace and England.

If you're arguing for raining nukes down on Berlin and Moscow, they'd retaliate instantly by liquidating allied civilian populations under their control.

Not really even worth answering. Nor would it necessarily matter. At this point it's literally a struggle for survival. If A-bombs are what are needed to bring the enemy to its knees, they are what will get used.

Besidess that, we were pounding the shit out of Germany long before we took back control of France. It's not necessarily a useful or effective war fighting technique to kill civilians. We would destroy their leadership and their capacity to fight (industrial centers, etc.). Murdering innocents in France or whatever isn't going to balance those scales.