Chiefs Complete Defensive failure

Fansy the Famous Bard · 10-13-2021, 08:49 AM

We've discussed it all ad nauseam. Some say it's all about the passrush. Others point to the slow TCOJCOLDS guy in coverage. Many feel the Linebackers are playing slow and reactionary, creating a gaping hole in the middle of the defense.

I don't understand how so many areas can go wrong at the same time. It's just insane to comprehend. I mean, this defense was not good by any stretch of the imagination for the past few years, but there were a few pieces that were good. And they did step up at times to show some semblance of prospect. Veach has gone out to add additional personnel in an attempt to infuse talent in certain spots. Both via the draft and FA.

A few examples would be Frank Clark, Anthony Hitchens, and Jarran Reed. The drafting of DL, LB, and CB's. For instance Clark was really good in Seattle. Maybe it was fool's gold and we were just happy to be rid of Dee Ford.

Jaylon Smith gets cut for what? Someone mentioned a rumor that it was over having been tackling people 3-4 yards past the LOS. What i wouldn't give for that type of production from Hitchens right now. He tackles 10 yards down field. Those are the ones he comes from the opposite side to get a tackle. The plays that come through his gaps he is either swallowed up by a single blocker or he just doesn't read the play and is flat footed. He is probably the worst player on this defense and everyone wants to point at Dirty Dan (for obvious reasons). But he has been spectacularly terrible for quite some time now. And he was a DECENT Linebacker in Dallas. He comes here and just Sucks.

Jarran Reed is a fantastic signing on paper. If i hadn't read it before the season, there'd be no reason to even know he was on this team. He's done nothing.

Mathieu is pissed at his entire team around him, and he's playing like it. His heart isn't into it this season.

There's no pass rush, but at the same time our DL does next to nothing against the Run. They are kind of just "there". The LB's have been "holy shit" bad, but I still want to hold on to hope for Gay and Bolton. The DB's have talent... there are a few young guys that have shown REAL promise in Fenton, Sneed, and Thornton. But as we've seen, 4 out of 6 guys in the secondary can be good... yet it still doesn't matter. With no pass rush, no adjustment to create pressure at all from the schemes, the islands of coverage just becomes to fragile.

There has to be some moment of enlightenment where Spags, Reid, or hell Veach says. "Okay enough is enough" and changes some stuff. Fire Spags, change the schemes, move CJ back to DT... I don't know what that is. But 5 games in, we're talking about an all-time worst Defense in the history of the NFL. I mean, i'm sitting here thinking Bob Sutton wasn't so bad. That's how bad it is this year.

There needs to be some accountability in the Front Office and Coaching staff.

**ptlyon** · 10-13-2021, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fansy the Famous Bard

We've discussed it all ad nauseam.

Then, don't

Fansy the Famous Bard · 10-13-2021, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon

Then, don't

**petegz28** · 10-13-2021, 09:01 AM

I lay this at the feet of Spags. I don't care how some of our star signings may have dropped from their peak, there is a bigger problem than lack of talent when everyone on the defense sucks at the deepest level of suckage.

That usually means they don't get the defense, don't buy into the defense or are not the types of players to play that scheme of defense. Probably all 3.

My suspicion is the defense is so complicated and ****ed the position coaches don't agree with it and despite them trying to say they do the players know what the deal is.

Fansy the Famous Bard · 10-13-2021, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I lay this at the feet of Spags. I don't care how some of our star signings may have dropped from their peak, their is a bigger problem than lack of talent when everyone on the defense sucks at the deepest level of suckage.

That usually means they don't get the defense, don't buy into the defense or are not the types of players to play that scheme of defense. Probably all 3.

My suspicion is the defense is so complicated and ****ed the position coaches don't agree with it and despite them trying to say they do the players know what the deal is.

That's where there needs to be some recognition and accountability taken by Reid\Veach.

arrwheader · 10-13-2021, 09:04 AM

I think the hardest thing to swallow about what is happening with the defense is that it is so mind boggling that they are this ****ing bad.

They are basically the same unit as last year. Who did we lose? Wilson? Tonah? That isn't changing much imo.

So that leaves Sorenson in a starting safety role and physically declining and moving CJ to the outside. Spags must have implemented something new that the defense is too confused because they are always lost constantly you can tell pre snap. All this could be fixed, at least partially or improved.

Still you would think the regression would not be 8 yards per play avg bad. Like historically bad.

Will they put CJ inside and give Thornhill majority snaps? That is the big question, I am not optimistic about that. Spags better figure it out quick because although there is still a lot of season left, but we can't really lose many more games at this point.

The offense minus the TO's are still really good and should be better with the Gordon addition and also I Think with CEH out it will be better not worse. There is still hope to turn it around.

**petegz28** · 10-13-2021, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fansy the Famous Bard

That's where there needs to be some recognition and accountability taken by Reid\Veach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrwheader

I think the hardest thing to swallow about what is happening with the defense is that it is so mind boggling that they are this ****ing bad.

They are basically the same unit as last year. Who did we lose? Wilson? Tonah? That isn't changing much imo.

So that leaves Sorenson in a starting safety role and physically declining and moving CJ to the outside. Spags must have implemented something new that the defense is too confused because they are always lost constantly you can tell pre snap. All this could be fixed, at least partially or improved.

Still you would think the regression would not be 8 yards per play avg bad. Like historically bad.

Will they put CJ inside and give Thornhill majority snaps? That is the big question, I am not optimistic about that. Spags better figure it out quick because although there is still a lot of season left, but we can't really lose many more games at this point.

The offense minus the TO's are still really good and should be better with the Gordon addition and also I Think with CEH out it will be better not worse. There is still hope to turn it around.

This defense is the same as last season. We haven't played a good game of defense since the Jets game. Now, we have come up with some clutch stops on occasion or some key turnovers but consistently our defense has sucked since the Jets game.

The problem with "just get me 2 stops a game" defense is that it requires our offense to score a TD every possession. That's not realistic despite the talent we have on offense.

This defense has to get to the point to getting at least 2-3 stops a half on a fairly consistent basis. They don't have to be dominating types of stops either. Force a punt or at times a FG. But you can't do it while allowing the other team to run off 6 or7 minutes of clock every time. Or let another team go 75 yards in 3 plays.

We cannot continue to live with 2nd and 2 or 3rd and 2. The defense has to start playing on the other side of the line at least some of the time. Right now we play on the other side of the line maybe 3 plays a game.

This defense is just completely ****ed.

Hammock Parties · 10-13-2021, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

This defense is the same as last season. We haven't played a good game of defense since the Jets game.

What a load of horseshit. Did you miss the playoffs?

**petegz28** · 10-13-2021, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

What a load of horseshit. Did you miss the playoffs?

We can disagree. I don't think the defense has played worth a shit since we won the Super Bowl. Few plays here and there, sure. Have they been a good defense since the Super Bowl? No.

We had a good games against Houston and Baltimore last season but overall we regressed and that regression has continued.

But Sorenson will save us all......

Hammock Parties · 10-13-2021, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

We can disagree. I don't think the defense has played worth a shit since we won the Super Bowl. Few plays here and there, sure. Have they been a good defense since the Super Bowl? No.

We had a good games against Houston and Baltimore last season but overall we regressed and that regression has continued.

But Sorenson will save us all......

You are brain dead.

The Chiefs were 10th in points allowed last season.

They held the Falcons to 14 points in Week 16.

They held the Browns to 17 in the playoffs.

They were up 38-15 in the AFCCG until Buffalo put up garbage time points.

Get a clue.

MVChiefFan · 10-13-2021, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

What a load of horseshit. Did you miss the playoffs?

Pete’s like “wait, we were in the playoffs? I could have sworn we weren’t sniffing the playoffs…”

Kman34 · 10-13-2021, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

This defense is the same as last season. We haven't played a good game of defense since the Jets game. Now, we have come up with some clutch stops on occasion or some key turnovers but consistently our defense has sucked since the Jets game.

The problem with "just get me 2 stops a game" defense is that it requires our offense to score a TD every possession. That's not realistic despite the talent we have on offense.

This defense has to get to the point to getting at least 2-3 stops a half on a fairly consistent basis. They don't have to be dominating types of stops either. Force a punt or at times a FG. But you can't do it while allowing the other team to run off 6 or7 minutes of clock every time. Or let another team go 75 yards in 3 plays.

We cannot continue to live with 2nd and 2 or 3rd and 2. The defense has to start playing on the other side of the line at least some of the time. Right now we play on the other side of the line maybe 3 plays a game.

This defense is just completely ****ed.

We beat the Bills in the AFCCG.. It was good enough.. Just now Jones is hurt and out of position, a stubborn a coach playing a guy who isn’t a every down player.. Plus a schedule with final four playoff teams..

**petegz28** · 10-13-2021, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kman34

We beat the Bills in the AFCCG.. It was good enough.. Just now Jones is hurt and out of position, a stubborn a coach playing a guy who isn’t a every down player.. Plus a schedule with final four playoff teams..

I agree the Jones experiment has failed but I was not for re-signing him to begin with due to his lack of run defense. Wasn't keen on paying that kind $ to a pass rusher inside.

I don't care about our schedule. We have to play these kinds of teams and win if we want to be in the show.

I remember a certain person on here for years always talking about our record vs. teams that were > .500.

There will always be someone hurt and we don't play enough "suck teams" to offset the good teams.

This defense is horribly bad and has been and I lay it at the feet of Spags. FTR, I have tried to support Spags but this kind of failure starts with him.

crispystl · 10-13-2021, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrwheader

I think the hardest thing to swallow about what is happening with the defense is that it is so mind boggling that they are this ****ing bad.

They are basically the same unit as last year. Who did we lose? Wilson? Tonah? That isn't changing much imo.

.

I wonder if that's the reason Spag’s defenses regress after a year or two. Is it because he introduces more and more complicated concepts that confuse everyone (or at least make them think a tad too much) as time goes on?

BlackOp · 10-14-2021, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrwheader

I think the hardest thing to swallow about what is happening with the defense is that it is so mind boggling that they are this ****ing bad.

They are basically the same unit as last year. Who did we lose? Wilson? Tonah? That isn't changing much imo.

So that leaves Sorenson in a starting safety role and physically declining and moving CJ to the outside. Spags must have implemented something new that the defense is too confused because they are always lost constantly you can tell pre snap. All this could be fixed, at least partially or improved.

I'll give you my conspiracy take...and really it's just a pragmatic observation based on ratings/parity. It's the 2021 season narrative building...

I said before the season started that KC's first 5 games were a head scratcher. It made no scheduling sense from a marketing perspective. That these games would have more meaning later in the season. If KC were to go 5-0, they would have essentially wiped out any drama for the next 4 months.

They would have tie-breakers over every top AFC team. KC going 14-1 and resting their starters, last year, is bad for business...especially since there is only one bye. This is now a 17 game season...

Their first 5 games were twice the toughest slate compared to the next closest team...TWICE. Two times as hard as the #2 toughest starting schedule...does this seem disproportionate?

For that extra 17th game, Chiefs get to play the Packers...one of the 4 best NFL teams from last year.

There have been 3 crucial calls that have shifted the outcomes of the 3 losses. The 4th and 9 against LA really stands out.

I think this "worst defense in history" start is scripted...and Spags is playing ball. It's a "top-down" decision...and he's doing what he's told. This team has never looked THIS disorganized...they've been to 3 consecutive AFCCGs. They didn't lose any consequential players on defense and it the same scheme.

This same defense held the 5-0 Arizona starters to 5 consecutive 3 and outs in the preseason. There were no signs of a complete schematic melt-down prior to game one.

I'm keeping an eye on if this defense "magically" turns it around in the next few weeks..

The season beginning is a NFL dream start...every AFC team has a shot/hope now the Chiefs are bottom-feeders.

It's all making out for a 'Dramatic Race" to end the season...no resting your starters this year.

I think the NFL has officially gone into shameless WWF mode...

10-13-2021, 08:49 AM	Topic Starter
Fansy the Famous Bard I'm with the Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $-973560	Complete Defensive failure We've discussed it all ad nauseam. Some say it's all about the passrush. Others point to the slow TCOJCOLDS guy in coverage. Many feel the Linebackers are playing slow and reactionary, creating a gaping hole in the middle of the defense. I don't understand how so many areas can go wrong at the same time. It's just insane to comprehend. I mean, this defense was not good by any stretch of the imagination for the past few years, but there were a few pieces that were good. And they did step up at times to show some semblance of prospect. Veach has gone out to add additional personnel in an attempt to infuse talent in certain spots. Both via the draft and FA. A few examples would be Frank Clark, Anthony Hitchens, and Jarran Reed. The drafting of DL, LB, and CB's. For instance Clark was really good in Seattle. Maybe it was fool's gold and we were just happy to be rid of Dee Ford. Jaylon Smith gets cut for what? Someone mentioned a rumor that it was over having been tackling people 3-4 yards past the LOS. What i wouldn't give for that type of production from Hitchens right now. He tackles 10 yards down field. Those are the ones he comes from the opposite side to get a tackle. The plays that come through his gaps he is either swallowed up by a single blocker or he just doesn't read the play and is flat footed. He is probably the worst player on this defense and everyone wants to point at Dirty Dan (for obvious reasons). But he has been spectacularly terrible for quite some time now. And he was a DECENT Linebacker in Dallas. He comes here and just Sucks. Jarran Reed is a fantastic signing on paper. If i hadn't read it before the season, there'd be no reason to even know he was on this team. He's done nothing. Mathieu is pissed at his entire team around him, and he's playing like it. His heart isn't into it this season. There's no pass rush, but at the same time our DL does next to nothing against the Run. They are kind of just "there". The LB's have been "holy shit" bad, but I still want to hold on to hope for Gay and Bolton. The DB's have talent... there are a few young guys that have shown REAL promise in Fenton, Sneed, and Thornton. But as we've seen, 4 out of 6 guys in the secondary can be good... yet it still doesn't matter. With no pass rush, no adjustment to create pressure at all from the schemes, the islands of coverage just becomes to fragile. There has to be some moment of enlightenment where Spags, Reid, or hell Veach says. "Okay enough is enough" and changes some stuff. Fire Spags, change the schemes, move CJ back to DT... I don't know what that is. But 5 games in, we're talking about an all-time worst Defense in the history of the NFL. I mean, i'm sitting here thinking Bob Sutton wasn't so bad. That's how bad it is this year. There needs to be some accountability in the Front Office and Coaching staff.
Posts: 6,413

10-13-2021, 09:01 AM	#4
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-915873	I lay this at the feet of Spags. I don't care how some of our star signings may have dropped from their peak, there is a bigger problem than lack of talent when everyone on the defense sucks at the deepest level of suckage. That usually means they don't get the defense, don't buy into the defense or are not the types of players to play that scheme of defense. Probably all 3. My suspicion is the defense is so complicated and ***ed the position coaches don't agree with it and despite them trying to say they do the players know what the deal is. Last edited by petegz28; 10-13-2021 at 09:14 AM..*
Posts: 132,319	1 0

10-13-2021, 09:04 AM	#6
arrwheader Veteran Join Date: Dec 2011 Casino cash: $146613	I think the hardest thing to swallow about what is happening with the defense is that it is so mind boggling that they are this ****ing bad. They are basically the same unit as last year. Who did we lose? Wilson? Tonah? That isn't changing much imo. So that leaves Sorenson in a starting safety role and physically declining and moving CJ to the outside. Spags must have implemented something new that the defense is too confused because they are always lost constantly you can tell pre snap. All this could be fixed, at least partially or improved. Still you would think the regression would not be 8 yards per play avg bad. Like historically bad. Will they put CJ inside and give Thornhill majority snaps? That is the big question, I am not optimistic about that. Spags better figure it out quick because although there is still a lot of season left, but we can't really lose many more games at this point. The offense minus the TO's are still really good and should be better with the Gordon addition and also I Think with CEH out it will be better not worse. There is still hope to turn it around.
Posts: 3,547