Working theory: 2 1sts means we can be patient with Ojabo.

[Direckshun]

Ojabo is a perfect fit for the Spags scheme, is he not?

But we can’t take a DE this year who we can’t play until Thanksgiving because we’re so thin at the position.

Unless we use our other 1st on a DE who can play.

Spending both 1sts on DEs who wouldn’t warrant a 1st on their own make sense to me.

Karlaftis can make an immediate impact, but he’s never going to have a high ceiling. But you can play him week 1 knowing you’ll ~8 sacks a season out of him. That doesn’t make a lot of sense on its own, but when you combine that with a sky-high potential at “leo” with Ojabo, you’ve effectively drafted your starting DEs for the next 5 years back-to-back in the 1st.

Karlaftis’ immediate impact allows us to be patient in bringing Ojabo along, and Ojabo’s upside allows us to look past Karlaftis’ lack of ceiling.

We talked about trading up all of last year, only for the Chiefs to stay put at the bottom of the 2nd and take two Pro Bowl caliber players.

Going DE back to back is incredibly unorthodox, but given the tire fire that position is right now, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility, and those two players in tandem could be an excellent combo there.

[chiefforlife]

I like your thought process on this but I think we could use a second rounder on the other Edge.

Use the other first on a WR, DT, S/CB?

[golfindude]

It appears to me, DE is our weakest position 'at this time' . If no free agent DE are signed, we have to draft 'at least' two. At such a valuable position, we need to get the best we can, that means RD 1 or 2. IMO the 2 best DE and the best DT available, if acceptable to Chiefs staff .

[kccrow]

Seriously, you guys need to stop with the Ojabo in the 1st shit.

The guy tore his ****ing ACHILLES, not his ACL.

It's very much improbable he comes back near as good as he was. Will he play again? He's got more than a solid shot of that but he'll probably top out at about 80% of the player he was. And that 80% may come 2 years down the road.

Throw a 3rd at the hope? Yeah, sure. He ain't going in the 1st and he shouldn't go in the 2nd either. If some dope wants to take him in the 1st, I sure ****ing hope it isn't Veach.

[farmerchief]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Seriously, you guys need to stop with the Ojabo in the 1st shit.

The guy tore his ****ing ACHILLES, not his ACL.

It's very much improbable he comes back near as good as he was. Will he play again? He's got more than a solid shot of that but he'll probably top out at about 80% of the player he was. And that 80% may come 2 years down the road.

Throw a 3rd at the hope? Yeah, sure. He ain't going in the 1st and he shouldn't go in the 2nd either. If some dope wants to take him in the 1st, I sure ****ing hope it isn't Veach.

My thoughts exactly,he’s too risky to take in the first, a few rounds later, maybe,,,

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Seriously, you guys need to stop with the Ojabo in the 1st shit.

The guy tore his ****ing ACHILLES, not his ACL.

It's very much improbable he comes back near as good as he was. Will he play again? He's got more than a solid shot of that but he'll probably top out at about 80% of the player he was. And that 80% may come 2 years down the road.

Throw a 3rd at the hope? Yeah, sure. He ain't going in the 1st and he shouldn't go in the 2nd either. If some dope wants to take him in the 1st, I sure ****ing hope it isn't Veach.

Yep. I've jumped on this bandwagon. For those that recover it's a 2 year recovery to pre-injury status. Your body learns to compensate putting further pressure on other joints/muscles/ligaments which is why players sometimes tear the other one after returning to play. Below is a snipit of an article on Yahoo about sports injuries last year. 1/4 of players over a 5 year period did not play again. That's a big gamble for a 1st/2nd rounder.

Torn Achilles
An Achilles tendon rupture involves a complete tear of the tendon on the back of your ankle. The injury occurs most often by sudden, forceful motion that stresses the calf muscle. A study presented at the 2017 AOFAS Annual Meeting found that it took NFL players an average of nine months to recover following the injury and that 26% of the 78 players who suffered a ruptured Achilles from 2010 to 2015 did not play again.

[Palangi]

Geez you guys are thinking it’s 1999 still. Medicine has improved. Cam Akers tore good Achilles in august and was back for the playoffs and played. That’s 5 months. Ojabo could be back full go in September or October.
The ACL is a longer process coming back than an Achilles is now.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Palangi

Geez you guys are thinking it’s 1999 still. Medicine has improved. Cam Akers tore good Achilles in august and was back for the playoffs and played. That’s 5 months. Ojabo could be back full go in September or October.
The ACL is a longer process coming back than an Achilles is now.

The issue being how boom/bust the Achilles injury is.

I think there's a better chance than ever at Ojabo coming back and being a damn good player, sure. And that's why he's still on my board in the late 1st or mid-2nd.

But there's a non-zero chance the guy is simply never an NFL player. His productivity depended a LOT on his burst and if he loses it, he's probably not even a rotational DE.

If Karlaftis is there, with a MUCH higher floor, I think Karlaftis is a no-brainer over Ojabo. The question becomes w/ guys like Thomas or even Jones.

It's just an awfully big risk to burn a 1st rounder on a guy who has a 20% chance of simply never being an NFL caliber player at ALL.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The issue being how boom/bust the Achilles injury is.

I think there's a better chance than ever at Ojabo coming back and being a damn good player, sure. And that's why he's still on my board in the late 1st or mid-2nd.

But there's a non-zero chance the guy is simply never an NFL player. His productivity depended a LOT on his burst and if he loses it, he's probably not even a rotational DE.

If Karlaftis is there, with a MUCH higher floor, I think Karlaftis is a no-brainer over Ojabo. The question becomes w/ guys like Thomas or even Jones.

It's just an awfully big risk to burn a 1st rounder on a guy who has a 20% chance of simply never being an NFL caliber player at ALL.

This.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Palangi

Geez you guys are thinking it’s 1999 still. Medicine has improved. Cam Akers tore good Achilles in august and was back for the playoffs and played. That’s 5 months. Ojabo could be back full go in September or October.
The ACL is a longer process coming back than an Achilles is now.

If you're going to base everything you know on one player then I think you should do some research.

And speaking of your one example, did you watch Akers in the playoffs? He was ****ing terrible.

[Palangi]

Originally Posted by kccrow

If you're going to base everything you know on one player then I think you should do some research.

And speaking of your one example, did you watch Akers in the playoffs? He was ****ing terrible.

You keep living in 1999. Your opinion is as shitty as you mock drafts.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Palangi

You keep living in 1999. Your opinion is as shitty as you mock drafts.

I'll keep living in 1999 so long as you keep living in denial. Marlon Mack looked great in his first year back, averaging 3.6 ypc and barely getting any use and showing little burst.

Akers, in his games since his return, averaged 0.6, 3.24, 2.00, 3.69, and 1.62 ypc. That's 72 carries for 175 yards and a whopping 2.43 ypc in those 5 games. It was really worth him rushing back to play, let me tell you. We'll see if he gets any better this year but I have doubts.

You can go back in the annals if you want. D'Onte Foreman, etc etc. The injury remains most damning to RBs and LBs who change directions and use a powerful burst to accelerate again. Very few DEs have had the injury but I'm not going to bet ON it. It's simple fact that while 80%-ish of players come back, nearly none ever have the same burst again and almost all have a reduction in performance. For many, that reduction in performance sees them out of the league in the next year or two.

Keep talking out your ass as if I don't know wtf I'm talking about when it's clear who that actually is.

[Dunerdr]

Originally Posted by Palangi

Geez you guys are thinking it’s 1999 still. Medicine has improved. Cam Akers tore good Achilles in august and was back for the playoffs and played. That’s 5 months. Ojabo could be back full go in September or October.
The ACL is a longer process coming back than an Achilles is now.

And Juan Thornhill tore his acl and has never been the same.. the arguments go both ways. Every injury is different and every player recovers differently.

[Palangi]

Why wouldn’t he get his burst back? It’s been repaired. He will be fine. His muscle structure is the same

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Palangi

Why wouldn’t he get his burst back? It’s been repaired. He will be fine. His muscle structure is the same

Ask the dozens of high-end athletes who simply didn't get back to where they were.

My guess would be that because the Achilles has such elasticity and carries so much stress, that any level of degradation in it's flexibility directly impacts your ability to explode off it.

But I'm not a doctor - all I can do is look at the outcomes. And while most guys are able to return to play, the overwhelming majority of them come back at a lesser level of performance. And that often depends in large degree on the type of player/position that person is.

If you're a large man who relies on explosion to be effective, then I can't see how anyone can possibly try to argue that you should hand-waive the risks associated w/ a full return to previous performance levels. It's just not a sure gamble at all.