60 Minutes A-Rod Story

[FloridaMan88]

Anyone catch the A-Rod story on 60 Minutes?

Steroids dealer Tony Bosch claims that A-Rod's "associates" initially tried to bribe him to leave the country and then texted his ex-girlfriend threatening to kill Bosch if he snitched.

Bud Selig and MLB COO Rob Manfred also were interviewed in the report and went after A-Rod claiming he is a liar, a fraud and committed an unprecedented attempt to hide his actions.

Very interesting.

[BlackHelicopters]

When will ARod speak? When Lance Armstrong says he should ?

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

It's all on the up and up, so it must be fine, right?

Nobody feels sorry for them, but just because their owner cares about baseball and winning a billion times more than ours, can you really get mad at them?

I don't think "mad" at them is the right word exactly, but the situation does kind of tick me off. I don't know if their owners care about winning a billion times more than ours, but I do know that their local radio and TV deals are worth a billion times more than ours though. It's not like the $ the Yank owners are spending on payroll is coming out of their personal funds.

[Jimmya]

Did I hear correctly when they said that they had gummy bears with ped's?

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

I don't think "mad" at them is the right word exactly, but the situation does kind of tick me off. I don't know if their owners care about winning a billion times more than ours, but I do know that their local radio and TV deals are worth a billion times more than ours though. It's not like the $ the Yank owners are spending on payroll is coming out of their personal funds.

Meh, that's just an excuse. JC, our owner is reported as not even spending all that he gets from the league through the luxury tax. If he does, that's all he's spending.

Either way, I guess I'm not going to blame Gotham because they have a lot of people and many of them follow their local team. If the Royals would prime the pump and spend a LOT more for a few years, perhaps we'd be super awesome and the smaller town would show up in more force, and the local, regional and national following would grow. That being said, I'd love a salary cap, but I don't think we'll ever see it, too many large-market teams like it the way it is because more often than not, it makes them competitive.

The bottom line is Wal-Mart won't do that. He's not that much of a man, he's Wal-Mart and being a cheap-ass in ingrained in his non-resident owner DNA. And again, not living here makes it all the simpler to **** over the fans. Just like another team we all know and love.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

You should consider figuring out what you're talking about before posting.

WTF are you talking about? My point is in football there is a cap and you can not exceed it. In baseball it is a CHOICE if NY stays under 189 M. Nothing stops them from going over. Would they get penalized with luxury tax yes. But again NOTHING in the rules of baseball stops them from going over 189.
THERE IS NO SALARY CAP IN BASEBALL.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Meh, that's just an excuse. JC, our owner is reported as not even spending all that he gets from the league through the luxury tax. If he does, that's all he's spending.

Either way, I guess I'm not going to blame Gotham because they have a lot of people and many of them follow their local team. If the Royals would prime the pump and spend a LOT more for a few years, perhaps we'd be super awesome and the smaller town would show up in more force, and the local, regional and national following would grow. That being said, I'd love a salary cap, but I don't think we'll ever see it, too many large-market teams like it the way it is because more often than not, it makes them competitive.

The bottom line is Wal-Mart won't do that. He's not that much of a man, he's Wal-Mart and being a cheap-ass in ingrained in his non-resident owner DNA. And again, not living here makes it all the simpler to **** over the fans. Just like another team we all know and love.

I don't mean to defend David Glass at all, but he does have a far smaller revenue stream to work from. The Royals could sell out every single game and it would be a drop in the bucket. Simply because of the population in their area, the Yanks have a monster local radio and TV contract that the Royals could never, ever compete with.

It truly is inherently unfair, so if the Yanks end up getting screwed by one of these huge contracts that the Royals and most other teams could not even consider doing, I would kind of like that.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

I don't mean to defend David Glass at all, but he does have a far smaller revenue stream to work from. The Royals could sell out every single game and it would be a drop in the bucket. Simply because of the population in their area, the Yanks have a monster local radio and TV contract that the Royals could never, ever compete with.

It truly is inherently unfair, so if the Yanks end up getting screwed by one of these huge contracts that the Royals and most other teams could not even consider doing, I would kind of like that.

The number of people in the listening/view area are merely potential. Look at teams in L.A. that don't do well, nobody tunes in. So yes, they have a lot of people, but those "lot of people" have a quality product to follow and be interested in.

Without Glass opening the books it's pretty clear that we're all left to guess, but I think from the things we do know (what he's getting from the luxury tax), and what he's paying in salary, he's prolly putting less money into it than before.

Glass is cheap, and a ****ing bastard, so yeah he's running away with the profit. Add to that the common knowledge that he was the force in Wal-Mart that was all for keeping labor costs down, and I'm sure he's sickened by the notion that these under-educated snobs are making more than $15 an hour. It's just in his DNA to cheat labor of rthe glory of the company and it's owners/investors.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

The number of people in the listening/view area are merely potential. Look at teams in L.A. that don't do well, nobody tunes in. So yes, they have a lot of people, but those "lot of people" have a quality product to follow and be interested in.

Without Glass opening the books it's pretty clear that we're all left to guess, but I think from the things we do know (what he's getting from the luxury tax), and what he's paying in salary, he's prolly putting less money into it than before.

Glass is cheap, and a ****ing bastard, so yeah he's running away with the profit. Add to that the common knowledge that he was the force in Wal-Mart that was all for keeping labor costs down, and I'm sure he's sickened by the notion that these under-educated snobs are making more than $15 an hour. It's just in his DNA to cheat labor of rthe glory of the company and it's owners/investors.

OK, market size makes no difference, it doesn't impact local TV and radio revenues and has no correlation to payroll. Not sure what I was thinking.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by alnorth

Well to be fair, they have solid evidence that he used steroids in 2010, 2011, and 2012. We already know he used in 2001-2003. (We'll ignore the fact that he likely used every year of his entire career since there's no proof of it) If those last 3 were all positive tests, it would be a lifetime ban.

With the evidence that baseball uncovered, we don't need a positive test to ban A-Rod for one full season.

edit: apparently the commissioner's office broke it down this way, for 3 seperate and distinct violations: 50 games for testosterone, 50 games for IGF-1, 50 games for HGH, and they tacked on the last 12 for obstruction.

There is no precedent for any of this. It's a completely arbitrary breakdown outside of the drug agreement the players made as part of the CBA (if you ignore the fact that it conveniently saves the NYY a full year of ARod's salary and keeps him away from baseball for a full year).

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

There is no precedent for any of this. It's a completely arbitrary breakdown outside of the drug agreement the players made as part of the CBA (if you ignore the fact that it conveniently saves the NYY a full year of ARod's salary and keeps him away from baseball for a full year).

The arbitrator's judgement was apparently attached to A-Rod's federal lawsuit, so everyone can now read it.

Apparently all parties, MLB, the union, and A-Rod's lawyers all agreed that the section of the rules that spelled out the 50 game, 100 game, and lifetime ban punishments did not apply. They all agreed that a different section applied where the commissioner can suspend a player for just cause due to violating the drug agreement absent a positive test, but that section does not have a specifically required penalty spelled out.

The union and A-Rod's lawyers argued that if there is any penalty at all, it should be treated the same as one positive test and it should only be 50 games.

MLB argued that there was no mandated penalty, and given the severity of the violation and the cover-up, the 211 games they wanted was fair.

The arbitrator said its true that the 50 games do not apply here, but its still useful as a benchmark. He also flatly rejected the argument that it should be treated as one single violation because it was 3 seperate banned substances taken over 3 seperate years, and there was already a precedent for punishing a first-time use for both of 2 different substances. (so instead of saying its all one violation, the precedent says you can say 50 games for this, 50 games for that)

So, its 50 games for each of 3 banned substances, plus a few more for the cover-up (which they also have a precedent for punishing), all backed by plenty of precedent. The only thing thats new is the total number of games, but we've also never had a player come up for using 3 different PED's over many years and then trying to block an investigation.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by alnorth

The arbitrator's judgement was apparently attached to A-Rod's federal lawsuit, so everyone can now read it.

Apparently all parties, MLB, the union, and A-Rod's lawyers all agreed that the section of the rules that spelled out the 50 game, 100 game, and lifetime ban punishments did not apply. They all agreed that a different section applied where the commissioner can suspend a player for just cause due to violating the drug agreement absent a positive test, but that section does not have a specifically required penalty spelled out.

The union and A-Rod's lawyers argued that if there is any penalty at all, it should be treated the same as one positive test and it should only be 50 games.

MLB argued that there was no mandated penalty, and given the severity of the violation and the cover-up, the 211 games they wanted was fair.

The arbitrator said its true that the 50 games do not apply here, but its still useful as a benchmark. He also flatly rejected the argument that it should be treated as one single violation because it was 3 seperate banned substances taken over 3 seperate years, and there was already a precedent for punishing a first-time use for both of 2 different substances. (so instead of saying its all one violation, the precedent says you can say 50 games for this, 50 games for that)

So, its 50 games for each of 3 banned substances, plus a few more for the cover-up (which they also have a precedent for punishing), all backed by plenty of precedent. The only thing thats new is the total number of games, but we've also never had a player come up for using 3 different PED's over many years and then trying to block an investigation.

There's nothing backed by precedent about a 162 game suspension for PED use in the sport of baseball. It's entirely new territory no matter how anybody attempts to explain the reasoning behind the punishment.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

There's nothing backed by precedent about a 162 game suspension for PED use in the sport of baseball. It's entirely new territory no matter how anybody attempts to explain the reasoning behind the punishment.

This statement is simply flat-out wrong.

There is precedent for punishing a player for 50 games even without a positive test. Check.

There is precedent for punishing a player for a first-time use for two different kinds of substances and having the punishments run consecutively instead of concurrently. Check.

There is precedent for punishing for a cover-up. Check.

Your only objection seems to be that 162 games is too convenient of a number (which was the arbitrator's call by the way, Selig wanted no hard limits, and 211 games), but what if it was 175, and they said 25 games for the cover-up instead of 12? Then its suddenly ok? Why couldn't they just round it to one season and call it good?

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by alnorth

This statement is simply flat-out wrong.

It isn't. There has never been a 162 game suspension for PED use in MLB, nor is there anything in the CBA that designates a 162 game suspension for PED use in MLB. Not sure how that could even be argued.

There is precedent for punishing a player for a first-time use for two different kinds of substances and having the punishments run consecutively instead of concurrently. Check.

When had that been done before?

There is precedent for punishing for a cover-up. Check.

They didn't tack on any extra games for Melky Cabrera's PED suspension in 2012 when he had a fake website made to cover up his use. What's the difference here?

Your only objection seems to be that 162 games is too convenient of a number (which was the arbitrator's call by the way, Selig wanted no hard limits, and 211 games), but what if it was 175, and they said 25 games for the cover-up instead of 12? Then its suddenly ok? Why couldn't they just round it to one season and call it good?

My objection is they broke entirely new ground here with this suspension (but yes, that giving a player an entire season for PED use, which had never been done before, is rather convenient for the league/NYY).

[KC_Connection]

A former lawyer's analysis of the decision: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...unting-to-150/

So that’s the first pass here. It’s hard to disagree with the arbitrator’s finding of some violation. It’s clear that the obstruction evidence presented by Major League Baseball was not terribly persuasive to him, as it amounted to only 12 games on top of the 150-game suspension. Finally, it’s clear to me that the 150-game suspension was based on, at the very least, a unique interpretation of the Joint Drug Agreement.

I believe, ultimately, that Major League Baseball will win the lawsuit A-Rod filed today as his best arguments are one of interpretation of the Joint Drug Agreement, and that is not enough to cause a court to overturn an arbitration. But I do believe that the arbitrator’s interpretation of the JDA was unsound and that the result — suspending Alex Rodriguez for a long time — was the tail that wagged the dog of his legal interpretation. That’s what Major League Baseball wanted. It’s what the arbitrator felt he should get. And he found a way to make it happen.

A way I do not believe anyone else ever considered before. Or, for that matter, should have.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

OK, market size makes no difference, it doesn't impact local TV and radio revenues and has no correlation to payroll. Not sure what I was thinking.

Usually you don't cry like this!

It matters in some respects, but it's not the only part of the equation. But if you're honest, you admit that it helps, but even a shitty team in a big city is doomed in many cases.

Are you sure you not just totally devoted to Glass...