what's with all the Orton isn't the answer talk?

[wutamess]

OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.

I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.

I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.

I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Denny

Why do fans always expect their teams to magically transform from a dumpster fire into world-beating Super Bowl Champs by simply drafting some flashy college QB?

Football is very much a TEAM sport. It takes more than a single player to win.

At any given time there's probably 3-4 QBs in the NFL capable of transforming a team - see Indy with and without Peyton Manning. That leaves 28 teams without such a transforming player - and virtually no chance of acquiring one. Yet the teams without those elite QBs still manage to win. See the 49ers this year.

So, do you keep beating your head against the wall wishing the QB-fairy would finally visit your team, or do you go with the best QB available and build the best team that you can?

I don't think that KC's problem has been the lack of an elite QB. It's been a lack of commitment in building a great team overall.

This year's 9ers are built from the same blueprint that the Chiefs in the 90s.

Run the ball and play defense, while asking your mediocre QB to manage the game.

How many SBs did that win?

The QB position is even more important in today's NFL.

[Red Beans]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Here are the dynamics.

Orton is demonstrably better than Cassel, but doesn't want to be pressed by a replacement, wants to be THE guy.

Cassel is beyond horrible and way overpaid.

Stanzi is a complete unknown.

Palko is worthless.

The Chiefs are presently moving away from the range where surefire franchise QBs are available, into a steep dive into franchise busts.

So what to do.

We don't know how many picks [if any] it'll take to move back into surefire franchise QB range.

We don't want Cassel back in any form

We don't want to waste too many years of a great many peaking performers, Hali, the Brandons, Bowe, hopefully Burrrry and Charles.

So many franchise QBs, especially the ones who eventually pan out, who start right away, suffer through 1, 2, 3 ATROCIOUS seasons [Manning, Aikman, in particular]. Even worse if they start out atrocious and just stay there.

OTOH, Rodgers sat and learned for 3 seasons and was ready to start at a high level right out of the box.

Information collation and analysis is an imperfect science, particularly when so much of it lies in the future. But my present take is to offer Orton at least the illusion/chance to be a long term solution. Sell him on the plan to draft a franchise QB who'll nevertheless sit on the bench for an extended period of seasoning and learning, during which time, the team is his. Be prepared to make judicious moves up in the draft for good value, resist temptation to go all Ditka on the draft, and hope like hell one of the surefires drops to our range.

Cassel has everything desirable [work ethic, durability, attitude, commitment], except talent. Talent can't be taught.

Orton has talent, but is suspicious for poise. Poise CAN be learned. This is again a future piece of information, but the possibility exists that that light has turned on, or is in the process of such.

I'd love to be sitting here a year from now with an RGII-v-Orton [or even RG-KO-RS] situation that is as win/win as SD's Rivers-v-Brees decision.

Well put!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

"Trading a whole draft for a QB is absolutely worth the risk, because without that QB, you aren't going anywhere anyway"


A QB is nothing without protection and quality skill players...

I should repost the list of SB Linemen of the last three years.

Besides, here are the starters on OL for the last six SB teams:

LT: Jermon Bushrod, Charlie Johnson, Jonathan Scott, Chad Clifton, Max Starks, Mike Gandy
LG: Carl Nicks, Ryan Lilja, Chris Kemoatu (x2), Daryn College, Reggie Wells
C: Jonathan Goodwin, Jeff Saturday, Doug Legursky, Scott Wells, Justin Hartwig, Lyle Sendlein
RG: Jahri Evans, Kyle DeVan, Ramon Foster, Josh Sitton, Darnell Stapleton, Deuce Lutui
RT: John Stinchcomb, Ryan Diem, Flozell Adams, Brian Bulaga, Levi Brown, Willie Colon

Of those 29 players there are six Pro Bowlers:

Chad Clifton, Flozell Adams (who was a shell of himself at this point; it was his last year in the NFL), John Stinchcomb (played one more year after his SB appearance), Carl Nicks, Jahri Evans, Jeff Saturday

6/29, barely over 20%. If you count Kemoatu twice, then it's really 6/30, basically one PBer per line, and that assumes that guys like Adams and Stinchcomb were playing at a Pro Bowl level at that point in their career, and the truth was they were anything but.

[KC_Lee]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

What if the FO ends up drafting Joey Harrington II?

My God!!! You're right!!!

What if we draft the next Trezell Jenkins!!! We should never draft a LT in the first round again!!!!

What if we draft another Snoop Minis or Sly Mo!!! Wide receiver in the first round, never again!!!

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

What if the FO ends up drafting Joey Harrington II?

and?


we'd fail like we've been failing for decades, you ****ing moran...

what success are we risking here? in your addled brain are the Chiefs currently superbowl contenders?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

If we draft Ryan Leaf II the next time, is the result any different than what it has been?

What drop off can you not tolerate? Is there something wildly successful about Chiefs football that I've missed as a result of a time warp, lobotomy, or psychotic episode?

[Dexter Manley]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I should repost the list of SB Linemen of the last three years.

Besides, here are the starters on OL for the last six SB teams:

LT: Jermon Bushrod, Charlie Johnson, Jonathan Scott, Chad Clifton, Max Starks, Mike Gandy
LG: Carl Nicks, Ryan Lilja, Chris Kemoatu (x2), Daryn College, Reggie Wells
C: Jonathan Goodwin, Jeff Saturday, Doug Legursky, Scott Wells, Justin Hartwig, Lyle Sendlein
RG: Jahri Evans, Kyle DeVan, Ramon Foster, Josh Sitton, Darnell Stapleton, Deuce Lutui
RT: John Stinchcomb, Ryan Diem, Flozell Adams, Brian Bulaga, Levi Brown, Willie Colon

Of those 29 players there are six Pro Bowlers:

Chad Clifton, Flozell Adams (who was a shell of himself at this point; it was his last year in the NFL), John Stinchcomb (played one more year after his SB appearance), Carl Nicks, Jahri Evans, Jeff Saturday

6/29, barely over 20%. If you count Kemoatu twice, then it's really 6/30, basically one PBer per line, and that assumes that guys like Adams and Stinchcomb were playing at a Pro Bowl level at that point in their career, and the truth was they were anything but.

That's certainly interesting. I would point out that to DEVELOP a YOUNG QB, a good OL is necessary.

Then again, NO got Brees in FA, AZ got Warner in FA, Aaron Rodgers sat for three full years...

but we have to spend the first on a QB, regardless of who that QB is...)

Big Ben, when he started, had 3 PBs on the OL, 2 at WR, and the Bus. That's what you need to start a young QB. Manning had 2 First Rounders at OT when he arrived in Indy.

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

bingo

had we said 4 years ago that Pioli was going to waste the prime of Hali/Charles/Bowe/Flowers careers on Cassel and then Orton...would anyone have said "sign me up, that's a great plan!!"?

would anyone 4 years ago have said "I hope we waste 3 years and then sign Kyle Orton..."?

if we don't draft QB this year, a waste of 4 years (going on 5) is solidified and next year is already irrelevant, as is every year until we do draft a QB...

I wish more Chiefs fans could understand that.

This team needs a solid QB (not Orton) fast or the careers of Bowe, Dorsey, Johnson, Hali, Flowers, Carr, Charles, ... will go to waste, which means all those guys make for a great team but if only we had a solid QB.

Yes, I would easily give up 3 first round picks for Luck.

[Dexter Manley]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

and?


we'd fail like we've been failing for decades, you ****ing moran...

what success are we risking here? in your addled brain are the Chiefs currently superbowl contenders?

Nope...

But the success failure ratio of First Round QBs isn't that inspiring, and many teams have won without a QB of their own First Round pick...

I think obsession with QB has gone too far, and where the Chiefs are picking in April, the "top QB" may not be there...

[Hammock Parties]

Big Ben, when he started, had 3 PBs on the OL, 2 at WR, and the Bus. That's what you need to start a young QB. Manning had 2 First Rounders at OT when he arrived in Indy.

And the Chiefs were recently ranked in the top 10 in pass blocking efficiency, and just had a perfect game in pass protection.

Draft a QB or die.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

What if the FO ends up drafting Joey Harrington II?

Dumb ass, you are.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

Nope...

But the success failure ratio of First Round QBs isn't that inspiring, and many teams have won without a QB of their own First Round pick...

I think obsession with QB has gone too far, and where the Chiefs are picking in April, the "top QB" may not be there...

you don't have a ****ing clue about the nfl

you deserve 30 more years of failure

[Dexter Manley]

Originally Posted by Omega

And the Chiefs were recently ranked in the top 10 in pass blocking efficiency, and just had a perfect game in pass protection.

Draft a QB or die.

If you think the Chiefs OL is "perfect," then that's what you think.

I don't. I think the offensive scheme was designed to cover the flaws in the offense.

For a "perfect game" against a statistically leaky D, the Chiefs O scored how many TDs?

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

Nope...

But the success failure ratio of First Round QBs isn't that inspiring, and many teams have won without a QB of their own First Round pick...

I think obsession with QB has gone too far, and where the Chiefs are picking in April, the "top QB" may not be there...

It is better to have failed once with a QB in the first, then it is to have never failed with a QB in the first.

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

I wish more Chiefs fans could understand that.

This team needs a solid QB (not Orton) fast or the careers of Bowe, Dorsey, Johnson, Hali, Flowers, Carr, Charles, ... will go to waste, which means all those guys make for a great team but if only we had a solid QB.

Yes, I would easily give up 3 first round picks for Luck.

If this team doesn`t trade up for Barkley or Griffin, I`ll be very very skeptical of our future. Of course, we could have a team good enough to win the AFC WEST but to win the Superbowl absolutely not.

Barkley or Griffin do not assure nothing but at least they give us a hope, a chance (if they develop properly) to maybe contend for the Superbowl in the next few years.