What the Chiefs realistically do in the Draft/FA - Page 2

Saccopoo · 02-02-2014, 12:31 PM

While we all have our personal favorites for the upcoming draft (*cough*Gabe Jackson*cough*), this is how I see everything shaking down from an objective viewpoint:

1. WR
2. OLB
3. OL

Everyone around here is currently salivating over Notre Dame's Tuitt or Minnesota's Hageman, but a month ago, no one around here even knew who this guy was.

I think it really depends on what they do with Tyson Jackson.

Jackson was better than either Tuitt or Hageman at the same level and has increased his on the field production for the Chiefs every year. I think he's hitting his stride and is at the front end of his NFL prime area.

I think Jackson understands his value on the market as well as to the team and will most likely agree to a 3 to 4 million per for 3/4 years - similar to Mike DeVito's contract.

I'm not really that interested in letting Jackson walk after year four and first year in Sutton's system while showing improvements in his game every year and then drafting a rookie and thinking that he'll be even close to what Jackson gives you right now as well as spending yet another first round pick on a two down player versus getting a starting wide receiver.

That being said, Reid saw a defensive line player drafted with the Eagles first pick in the draft seven times (out of 14 years).

Breakdown of Reid's first picks as head coach with the Eagles:

7 DL
2 QBs
2 WRs
2 OL
1 CB

However, that being said, it looks like John Dorsey is the guy who's really putting the work into the player evaluations in terms of the draft and free agency and Reid is primarily focused on coaching.

Dorsey, as Director of College Scouting and Director of Football Operations for the Packers from 2000 to 2012, saw the following positions selected in the first round for Green Bay:

3 DL
3 LB
2 OL
2 WR
1 CB
1 TE
1 QB

Basically, it looks like Reid, as a former OL player and OL coach, has respect for the DL and favors them in his drafts while Dorsey (a former NFL LB) seems to stick with his big board.

And based on the 2013 draft, the two seem to have went with BPA and biggest position of need, after making sure that they had all of their ducks in a row through free agency prior to the draft. (Alex Smith, Sean Smith, Anthony Fasano, Anthony Sherman, Mike DeVito, Akeem Jordan, Geoff Schwartz, etc.)

I think that's what they do for the 2014 season. I think you'll see a concerted effort to:

1. Sign a free agent safety

- I don't see a scenario where Husain Abdullah won't get a decent offer from the Chiefs. The guy played well to finish out the season and was consisten all year on special teams. They'll most likely look at the Eagles Nate Allen or the Packers Morgan Burnett due to Reid and Dorsey's experience/familiarity with both players, though a guy like the Bears' Major Wright would be considered. They also obviously liked Brad McDougald and will likely try to get him back for 2014.

2. Sign a wide receiver in free agency.

- They tried to address this all season long, but it never really got handled by guys like Donnie Avery, Chad Hall, etc. I'm surprised that Reid didn't have an aneurysm watching ball after ball get dropped. Riley Cooper is coming off his best year and would probably welcome a change in the environment after this past season. He knows Reid's system and has good hands and runs solid routes. Would be a solid #2 opposite Bowe.

3. Re-sign Tyson Jackson.

- See above.

4. Draft an explosive playmaker with the first pick.

- IMO, this pick is Odell Beckham. With McCluster set to test the free agent market after his best season, the Chiefs are going to need a guy to replace him as a WR option as well as a return specialist. There is nobody better in the draft for this than the 2013 Paul Hornung Award winner Beckham.

5. Draft for depth at the OLB, OL, CB, WR, RB positions with the rest of the picks.

And there is your 2014 off-season in a nutshell.

O.city · 02-02-2014, 01:45 PM

Hagemans just a nasty mother too.

RunKC · 02-02-2014, 02:02 PM

This team needs:

-At least 2 new WR's that are fast and can get separation and get it fast. Think of Manning against us in Denver. We need to have that against good D's next year. Quick 3 step drops to WR's that can get open fast.

-DE that can actually create havoc in the backfield

-1 more athletic TE. This can be in the mid rounds or FA.

-Depth. Need OL, OLB and DB depth

Mr_Tomahawk · 02-02-2014, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

This team needs:

-At least 2 new WR's that are fast and can get separation and get it fast. Think of Manning against us in Denver. We need to have that against good D's next year. Quick 3 step drops to WR's that can get open fast.

-DE that can actually create havoc in the backfield

-1 more athletic TE. This can be in the mid rounds or FA.

-Depth. Need OL, OLB and DB depth

DB depth? You mean starters?

Besides Berry...our secondary starters are overrated, yes that includes Flowers.

TambaBerry · 02-02-2014, 03:19 PM

I'm just going to keep preaching this, Gilbert, Dennard, or Pryor is a must in that first round if they last.

Sorter · 02-02-2014, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Tyson Jackson was as good a, if not better, pass defender than either Hageman or Tuitt at the same level. And they are going to be drafted as a two down five tech DE.

He's established himself as one of the better run defenders in the NFL and he's coming off his best sack totals in his four seasons.

Tuitt and Hageman would be in the exact same boat as Jackson was four seasons ago. Projects who are going to struggle against NFL OL's.

The position and system itself requires "just a guy" who is adapt at stopping the run. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jackson qualifies.

As well, there is the potential, if Sutton chooses to do so, of running a 46 a bit more with Powe at NT and shifting Poe out to the DE.

Either that or run a 34 like the Ravens did with Kelley (Powe) at NT and Ngata (Poe) at DE.

As of right now, I don't see that either Hageman (who I like a lot, btw) or Tuitt offer any substantial ceiling over what you are currently getting with Jackson - at least for the position/system.

I really don't understand your obsession with the 46.

O.city · 02-02-2014, 04:10 PM

Sorter, what are your thoughts on Hageman?

Sorter · 02-02-2014, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Sorter, what are your thoughts on Hageman?

O.city · 02-02-2014, 04:15 PM

I don't think there's any way e falls to is though

Sorter · 02-02-2014, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't think there's any way e falls to is though

I agree.

Saccopoo · 02-02-2014, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

I really don't understand your obsession with the 46.

It's based primarily on Berry, Houston, Hali and Poe.

Berry is already playing the "Plank" safety position. He's exactly what the system calls for. Perfect for it.

And Sutton doesn't seem to believe in anything other than man press coverage from his corners.

Really, we are playing it currently when they go to a side overload with Houston and Hali on it - other than having the three DT's on the line, and both Powe and Poe have shown the ability to blow the OL up.

I think that the one thing that we really missed in it was the rangy free safety, and that's why the concept of signing Burnett, Allen or Wright is key as all three are a major upgrade to Lewis as it currently stands.

Sorter · 02-02-2014, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

It's based primarily on Berry, Houston, Hali and Poe.

You realize there's a reason that alignment isn't used with high frequency anymore, right?

Quote:

And Sutton doesn't seem to believe in anything other than man press coverage from his corners.

That's not true. It is more accurate in regards to sub packages, especially in the second half of the season.

Quote:

Really, we are playing it currently when they go to a side overload with Houston and Hali on it

- No, it's not. We've used a 46 this season. It isn't an overload.

Quote:

I think that the one thing that we really missed in it was the rangy free safety, and that's why the concept of signing Burnett, Allen or Wright is key as all three are a major upgrade to Lewis as it currently stands.

This is the only part of your post that makes sense.

Sorter · 02-02-2014, 05:11 PM

Sac, here's the 46 out of the Jets PB.

Not an overload. Additionally, you'll (hopefully) be able to see why this alignment isn't used against most of the alignments used in the NFL currently. That isn't even taking into account personnel groupings + additional variables that would dictate when you would use this alignment based on game planning (down and distance, run/pass %s, and location OTF).

O.city · 02-02-2014, 06:28 PM

I hope Brandin Cooks tests really small and falls into the 3rd round. I think he could be a Percy Harvin type player.

O.city · 02-02-2014, 07:05 PM

And after watching the first half of this Broncos game, someone plant some drugs on Hageman so he falls to us.

Saccopoo · 02-02-2014, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

You realize there's a reason that alignment isn't used with high frequency anymore, right?

Actually, it's being used specifically for/against the spread by a number of college teams.

Oregon has employed it since 2009 with defensive coordinator Nick Aliotti throwing some modernizations at it. And it's been very effective as the Ducks defense has been highly ranked since it's implimentation.

Quote:

That's not true. It is more accurate in regards to sub packages, especially in the second half of the season.

- No, it's not. We've used a 46 this season. It isn't an overload.

Depends on the variants used. The Bears used an overload with regularity in their base 46.

Quote:

This is the only part of your post that makes sense.

See above.

02-02-2014, 12:31 PM
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	What the Chiefs realistically do in the Draft/FA While we all have our personal favorites for the upcoming draft (coughGabe Jacksoncough), this is how I see everything shaking down from an objective viewpoint: 1. WR 2. OLB 3. OL Everyone around here is currently salivating over Notre Dame's Tuitt or Minnesota's Hageman, but a month ago, no one around here even knew who this guy was. I think it really depends on what they do with Tyson Jackson. Jackson was better than either Tuitt or Hageman at the same level and has increased his on the field production for the Chiefs every year. I think he's hitting his stride and is at the front end of his NFL prime area. I think Jackson understands his value on the market as well as to the team and will most likely agree to a 3 to 4 million per for 3/4 years - similar to Mike DeVito's contract. I'm not really that interested in letting Jackson walk after year four and first year in Sutton's system while showing improvements in his game every year and then drafting a rookie and thinking that he'll be even close to what Jackson gives you right now as well as spending yet another first round pick on a two down player versus getting a starting wide receiver. That being said, Reid saw a defensive line player drafted with the Eagles first pick in the draft seven times (out of 14 years). Breakdown of Reid's first picks as head coach with the Eagles: 7 DL 2 QBs 2 WRs 2 OL 1 CB However, that being said, it looks like John Dorsey is the guy who's really putting the work into the player evaluations in terms of the draft and free agency and Reid is primarily focused on coaching. Dorsey, as Director of College Scouting and Director of Football Operations for the Packers from 2000 to 2012, saw the following positions selected in the first round for Green Bay: 3 DL 3 LB 2 OL 2 WR 1 CB 1 TE 1 QB Basically, it looks like Reid, as a former OL player and OL coach, has respect for the DL and favors them in his drafts while Dorsey (a former NFL LB) seems to stick with his big board. And based on the 2013 draft, the two seem to have went with BPA and biggest position of need, after making sure that they had all of their ducks in a row through free agency prior to the draft. (Alex Smith, Sean Smith, Anthony Fasano, Anthony Sherman, Mike DeVito, Akeem Jordan, Geoff Schwartz, etc.) I think that's what they do for the 2014 season. I think you'll see a concerted effort to: 1. Sign a free agent safety - I don't see a scenario where Husain Abdullah won't get a decent offer from the Chiefs. The guy played well to finish out the season and was consisten all year on special teams. They'll most likely look at the Eagles Nate Allen or the Packers Morgan Burnett due to Reid and Dorsey's experience/familiarity with both players, though a guy like the Bears' Major Wright would be considered. They also obviously liked Brad McDougald and will likely try to get him back for 2014. 2. Sign a wide receiver in free agency. - They tried to address this all season long, but it never really got handled by guys like Donnie Avery, Chad Hall, etc. I'm surprised that Reid didn't have an aneurysm watching ball after ball get dropped. Riley Cooper is coming off his best year and would probably welcome a change in the environment after this past season. He knows Reid's system and has good hands and runs solid routes. Would be a solid #2 opposite Bowe. 3. Re-sign Tyson Jackson. - See above. 4. Draft an explosive playmaker with the first pick. - IMO, this pick is Odell Beckham. With McCluster set to test the free agent market after his best season, the Chiefs are going to need a guy to replace him as a WR option as well as a return specialist. There is nobody better in the draft for this than the 2013 Paul Hornung Award winner Beckham. 5. Draft for depth at the OLB, OL, CB, WR, RB positions with the rest of the picks. And there is your 2014 off-season in a nutshell.
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02-02-2014, 01:45 PM	#16
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-765936	Hagemans just a nasty mother too.
Posts: 84,249

02-02-2014, 02:02 PM	#17
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $-1680389	This team needs: -At least 2 new WR's that are fast and can get separation and get it fast. Think of Manning against us in Denver. We need to have that against good D's next year. Quick 3 step drops to WR's that can get open fast. -DE that can actually create havoc in the backfield -1 more athletic TE. This can be in the mid rounds or FA. -Depth. Need OL, OLB and DB depth __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Jared Wiley
Posts: 52,227

02-02-2014, 03:19 PM	#19
TambaBerry MVP Join Date: Jan 2013 Casino cash: $-1564459	I'm just going to keep preaching this, Gilbert, Dennard, or Pryor is a must in that first round if they last.
Posts: 10,927

02-02-2014, 04:10 PM	#21
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-765936	Sorter, what are your thoughts on Hageman?
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02-02-2014, 04:15 PM	#23
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-765936	I don't think there's any way e falls to is though
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02-02-2014, 06:28 PM	#28
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-765936	I hope Brandin Cooks tests really small and falls into the 3rd round. I think he could be a Percy Harvin type player.
Posts: 84,249

02-02-2014, 07:05 PM	#29
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-765936	And after watching the first half of this Broncos game, someone plant some drugs on Hageman so he falls to us.
Posts: 84,249