Bob Sutton

[milkman]

I have asked this in threads before, and I get no legitimate response, so I am going to start this thread.

Over and over, and over again, people keep saying that Sutton made no adjustments, and is responsible for the failures of this defense.

I have no dog in this, but I want to know, what exactly do you think he could do?

This defense was playing spectacularly for the first 5-6 games, but then Buffalo, Houston and the Donkeys had enough film to recognize that they could exploit the deep zones because Kendrick Lewis was almost always in the wrong place, and they adjusted their game plans to take full advantage.

Sutton tried to counter that by moving the corners off the line, which allowed offenses to exploit the short passing game and minimize the pass rush, which was also affected by the loss of Houston to injury, and a less than 100% Hali.

The one critisism that is completely valid is that Sutton did not utilize a rotaion on the line that kept Poe fresh, and he was not the same player for the 2nd half of the season that he was for the first half, because he was just worn out.

So, again, I ask, given the limitations of the talent, what exactly did you expect Sutton to do?

[milkman]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I think if CJ Mosley is there, he's our pick. Don't see him getting past GB tho

I'm not sure that Mosely has the fluid hips that Van Noy possesses.

This is why I think Telvin Smith should be an option in the third.

Put 10-12 pounds on him, he should be able to retain the quickness, fluidity, and athleticism he posseses.

I see him as a Donnie Edwards type, but a better, more aggressive tackler.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

God I hope not. We already have one crappy ILB from Bama in Nico Johnson, FML if we draft another one in the 1st.

I am not an alabama fan or hater but it really looks like system gets the job done. They get some of the best talent year in and out yet they just don't look the same once they get to the nfl. Barron in tampa being a rare exception.

[ThaVirus]

1. Make sure Dunta Robinson never saw the field. I'll never understand why Ron Parker didn't see more coverage snaps in the playoff game.

2. Replace Kendrick Lewis with Abdullah or Berry. It's my opinion that Berry should have been our starting FS and Abdullah our starting SS with Demps as the first S coming off the bench.

3. Rotate more often, specifically on the defensive line. Poe was our only hope for a pass rush from a down lineman and we ran him into the ground all season long. Reduce his snaps by about 25% next season.

4. Make better adjustments. There were times when he made great adjustments (benching Robinson after he got torched by Victor Cruz and blitzing more against Houston in the second half) but there were many more when he didn't, specifically against Denver and San Diego (he never came up with an answer to stop those crossing routes) and worst of all the Colts. I may not get paid for this but I have common sense and it tells me when you're hemorrhaging yards and TDs doing one thing, you switch the shit up to counter it.

5. Practice/run more zone coverage. I hate to be the copy cat but Seattle runs a shit ton of zone and it's what makes their D so ferocious, among many other things. The thing specifically about the zone is that it keeps all eyes in front of you. That means there are often more chances to break up passes, tip balls for INTs, lay big hits (especially on crossing routes), and gang tackle. I'm aware that we probably just don't have the personnel to effectively run a disciplined zone defense but we need to try. Run that shit in practice and bring in some guys that can do both man and zone and do them well.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Going back to the playoff loss to Indy ,all Sutton had to do was get Hilton covered . Double team his ass. That's all he had to do. giving up a 28 point lead is bullshit.

Robinson and Lewis are now gone so coaches knew our weaknesses and hopefully we can upgrade in this draft. Hopefully commings will be a stud. don't know.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

1. Make sure Dunta Robinson never saw the field. I'll never understand why Ron Parker didn't see more coverage snaps in the playoff game.

We saw Parker make plays as a blitzer, but we have no idea how he works in coverage.
I agree, though, that is one thing that Sutton could have tried, but at the same time, he also has the benefit of actually seeing Parker in practice.

2. Replace Kendrick Lewis with Abdullah or Berry. It's my opinion that Berry should have been our starting FS and Abdullah our starting SS with Demps as the first S coming off the bench.

I am not convinced that Abdullah has the tools to play the single high safety position, and he lacks the versatility to be moved around in the defense that Berry brings to the field.

But, again, it might have been worth a look.

3. Rotate more often, specifically on the defensive line. Poe was our only hope for a pass rush from a down lineman and we ran him into the ground all season long. Reduce his snaps by about 25% next season.

Agree with this.

4. Make better adjustments. There were times when he made great adjustments (benching Robinson after he got torched by Victor Cruz and blitzing more against Houston in the second half) but there were many more when he didn't, specifically against Denver and San Diego (he never came up with an answer to stop those crossing routes) and worst of all the Colts. I may not get paid for this but I have common sense and it tells me when you're hemorrhaging yards and TDs doing one thing, you switch the shit up to counter it..

The best way to stop those crossing routes, and really, any other short passes is sound fundamental tackling.
Those passes are going to be completed a majority of the time, so you have to minimize the gains, which forces the offense to start looking for bigger chunks in the passing game, allowing the pass rushers to get more pressure.

5. Practice/run more zone coverage. I hate to be the copy cat but Seattle runs a shit ton of zone and it's what makes their D so ferocious, among many other things. The thing specifically about the zone is that it keeps all eyes in front of you. That means there are often more chances to break up passes, tip balls for INTs, lay big hits (especially on crossing routes), and gang tackle. I'm aware that we probably just don't have the personnel to effectively run a disciplined zone defense but we need to try. Run that shit in practice and bring in some guys that can do both man and zone and do them well.

Cooper might/probaly would have benefitted from more practice in zone, but, at the same time, you might not want to overload him too early in his progression as a corner.
We know, however, that Sean Smith has historically sucked in zone.

Not sure this works at all.

But this is one of only two responses to the question that I have posed that really legitimately address the question.

Good post.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

Going back to the playoff loss to Indy ,all Sutton had to do was get Hilton covered . Double team his ass. That's all he had to do. giving up a 28 point lead is bullshit.

Robinson and Lewis are now gone so coaches knew our weaknesses and hopefully we can upgrade in this draft. Hopefully commings will be a stud. don't know.

Hilton was doubled teamed.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

Going back to the playoff loss to Indy ,all Sutton had to do was get Hilton covered . Double team his ass. That's all he had to do. giving up a 28 point lead is bullshit.

Robinson and Lewis are now gone so coaches knew our weaknesses and hopefully we can upgrade in this draft. Hopefully commings will be a stud. don't know.

They are all in on that. I am no where near as sure as they seem to be.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

Going back to the playoff loss to Indy ,all Sutton had to do was get Hilton covered . Double team his ass. That's all he had to do. giving up a 28 point lead is bullshit.

Robinson and Lewis are now gone so coaches knew our weaknesses and hopefully we can upgrade in this draft. Hopefully commings will be a stud. don't know.

This> They are hoping to upgrade this shit defense in the draft with 6 picks-yep will probably work.

[RippedmyFlesh]

To the OP I think it is easier for an average fan to identify a good play call and player fail on offense. A wide open pass dropped.
On defense it takes more of an understanding of players roles in a defense to know the difference between bad play calling and execution.

[BigRock]

Originally Posted by milkman

I am not talking about play after play after play.

They picked their spots and took their shots, which loosened up the underneath stuff.

The problem with that is the underneath stuff didn't need loosening. Houston ran pretty much their entire offense from the shotgun with a lot of 2 second passes. Clearly trying to negate the pass rush. They only threw deep twice in the first half. Well, technically three times, but one was a hail mary at the end of the half that wouldn't count towards Sutton adjusting to anything.

I don't think one deep pass attempt per quarter is going to cause any great adjustments to a defense. And in the meantime they gave up over 120 yards on short passes in that first half. They looked totally unprepared for a team to counter the pass rush with a short, quick passing attack. Which is troubling because that seems to be a fairly obvious strategy against a great pass rush.

I just don't see a cause and effect where they were being taken advantage of deep and then started getting burned by short passes because they had to back off. I think getting beat short came first. I saw it as teams trying to negate the pass rush by getting the ball out quick and the defense rarely having an answer. With the cherry on top that when they did go deep, it would work too because Lewis was garbage.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BigRock

The problem with that is the underneath stuff didn't need loosening. Houston ran pretty much their entire offense from the shotgun with a lot of 2 second passes. Clearly trying to negate the pass rush. They only threw deep twice in the first half. Well, technically three times, but one was a hail mary at the end of the half that wouldn't count towards Sutton adjusting to anything.

I don't think one deep pass attempt per quarter is going to cause any great adjustments to a defense. And in the meantime they gave up over 120 yards on short passes in that first half. They looked totally unprepared for a team to counter the pass rush with a short, quick passing attack. Which is troubling because that seems to be a fairly obvious strategy against a great pass rush.

I just don't see a cause and effect where they were being taken advantage of deep and then started getting burned by short passes because they had to back off. I think getting beat short came first. I saw it as teams trying to negate the pass rush by getting the ball out quick and the defense rarely having an answer. With the cherry on top that when they did go deep, it would work too because Lewis was garbage.

Our defensive backfield just isn't very good.

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Our defensive backfield just isn't very good.

Yup. Could you imagine what it would have looked like without Cooper last year?

[ct]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I think we're quick to blame the coaches around here, and I'm as guilty as anybody.

I'm really not sure what happened last year. It was weird as heck. We went from having a world-beating defense to a defense that was almost Greg Robinson-esque in ineptness. (There I go blaming the coaches again, but ... spinner defense. That was all Robinson.) And at the same time our offense went from being completely inept to being a world beater. That was totally weird.

On the defense, I think it's no coincidence that our defense went from good to bad about the same time that our schedule got tougher. It implies that our defense was good enough to shut down weak teams, but that it had a weakness (also known as a "Kendrick") that could be easily exploited by good teams. Or as implied in the initial post, maybe 9 weeks was enough time for opponents to figure out the Achilles heel of our system or our personnel.

The change in the offense was the bigger mystery. What started going right? Was it all Geoff Schwartz and Donald Stephenson (aka Russell Wilson)? That and Fasano's return were the only notable personnel changes. Or was it the offense learning the new system well enough that they started dominating via their amazing talent and system?

That's funny shit right there! Add that to the lexicon along w/ another suggestion, KLewlis

I'm strongly in the camp our FS weakness and injuries to our pass rushers killed the defense. I'm on board with Abdullah, think he's a fine player, very upgradeable, but a fine player, and should have been starting all year. So I'm not terribly worried about our safety play this year, should be much improved, but an upgrade prospect should definitely be selected at some point, I'm not counting on Commings long term until he shows he can stay on the field.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Originally Posted by milkman

Hilton was doubled teamed.

By the invisibles ?????

[milkman]

Originally Posted by BigRock

The problem with that is the underneath stuff didn't need loosening. Houston ran pretty much their entire offense from the shotgun with a lot of 2 second passes. Clearly trying to negate the pass rush. They only threw deep twice in the first half. Well, technically three times, but one was a hail mary at the end of the half that wouldn't count towards Sutton adjusting to anything.

I don't think one deep pass attempt per quarter is going to cause any great adjustments to a defense. And in the meantime they gave up over 120 yards on short passes in that first half. They looked totally unprepared for a team to counter the pass rush with a short, quick passing attack. Which is troubling because that seems to be a fairly obvious strategy against a great pass rush.

I just don't see a cause and effect where they were being taken advantage of deep and then started getting burned by short passes because they had to back off. I think getting beat short came first. I saw it as teams trying to negate the pass rush by getting the ball out quick and the defense rarely having an answer. With the cherry on top that when they did go deep, it would work too because Lewis was garbage.

I may be confused about which teams, but there were a couple of games mid season that teams really exploited Lewis, which forced Sutton to back off the corners.