Alex Smith's 2nd year looks alot like Trent Green's 2nd yr w/Chiefs

[cmh6476]

stat-wise and Because we are the Chiefs and DKTM

Trent Green 2002 (32 years old)
287/470 - 61.1% 3,690 yards 26 TDs 13 INTs

Alex Smith 2014 (30 years old)
303/464 - 65.3% 3,265 yards 18 TDs 6 INTs

Well sans the TDs but Green only had 17 in 2001 and Smith had 23 in 2013.

[Pablo]

You're allowed to say the line sucked; or that our WR corps is sad. Those things are true.

It doesn't change the fact that Alex isn't worth his contract, isn't going to lead this team anywhere and is the face of this franchise. Your QB will always receive undue praise as well as undue criticism. It comes with the position and the salary. Alex cashed the checks. He knew what he was working with coming into this season and decided to take that pay-day. Now Chiefs fans expect him to produce. That isn't so crazy, is it?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Like when he blew the 18 pt lead to Philly??

Or when when we lost at Buffalo to an inferior Bills team??

Don't kid yourself; Trent looked liked shit with Jordan Black at LT. It ended Priest's career in San Diego, and that's when we really saw that Trent alone would not get it done. You know it as well as I do. That whole team was built around a HOF O-line, a smart RB that could read and set up blocks, and a heady QB with average arm strength and mobility that would do exactly what his coaches tell him and doesn't make many mistakes...

Trent Green blew an 18 point lead? That's interesting; this whole time I figured it was a defense that gave up 368 passing yards.

I also seem to remember him leading a team that depantsed the Patriots and beat the Broncos (the #2 seed) and put up 37 on another AFC playoff team. Shit, the 2005 Chiefs played six games against playoff teams and won four of them.

Alex Smith has played six playoff teams this year and won twice.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I'm as tired as everyone of mediocrity.

But you guys are trying to act like Alex Smith was a HORRIBLE QB this year. He wasn't. I don't like the brand of football we play, it's 2014, we have to throw the ball down the field.

But let's stop pretending like Alex is a bottom-tier QB. He isn't. He's just average. I, myself, am tired of average.

But this board constantly overreacts.

Trent ALWAYS had the same issues when our offense became obvious. Always. As soon as the defense knew we had to pass, Trent was ineffective. Trent Green is probably my 3rd or 4th favorite Chief ever ... but to act like he is HEAD AND SHOULDERS better than Alex Smith is hilarious to me.

Trent was good. Alex is good. Neither were good enough.

In a vacuum Trent isn't remarkably better than Smith, no.

But Vermeil was spot on in knowing that Trent was the type of guy that could put an offense in position to win in the postseason. Had the '03 Chiefs had any semblance of a defense they could have at least wound up in the AFC title game playing the Patriots.

Smith, however, is a terrible fit as a starter in *any* system. He handicaps (what I strongly believe to be) the flawed Reid version of the WCO because defenses know he'll never present a downfield threat in an offense scheme that prefers short throws but still needs the ability to go deep to keep the secondary honest.

Alex Smith wouldn't start on a good 60% of NFL teams next season.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Pablo

You're allowed to say the line sucked; or that our WR corps is sad. Those things are true.

It doesn't change the fact that Alex isn't worth his contract, isn't going to lead this team anywhere and is the face of this franchise. Your QB will always receive undue praise as well as undue criticism. It comes with the position and the salary. Alex cashed the checks. He knew what he was working with coming into this season and decided to take that pay-day. Now Chiefs fans expect him to produce. That isn't so crazy, is it?

It's kind of like the ouroboros.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

In a vacuum Trent isn't remarkably better than Smith, no.

But Vermeil was spot on in knowing that Trent was the type of guy that could put an offense in position to win in the postseason. Had the '03 Chiefs had any semblance of a defense they could have at least wound up in the AFC title game playing the Patriots.

Smith, however, is a terrible fit as a starter in *any* system. He handicaps (what I strongly believe to be) the flawed Reid version of the WCO because defenses know he'll never present a downfield threat in an offense scheme that prefers short throws but still needs the ability to go deep to keep the secondary honest.

Alex Smith wouldn't start on a good 60% of NFL teams next season.

60% of 32 is what?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I'm as tired as everyone of mediocrity.

But you guys are trying to act like Alex Smith was a HORRIBLE QB this year. He wasn't. I don't like the brand of football we play, it's 2014, we have to throw the ball down the field.

But let's stop pretending like Alex is a bottom-tier QB. He isn't. He's just average. I, myself, am tired of average.

But this board constantly overreacts.

Trent ALWAYS had the same issues when our offense became obvious. Always. As soon as the defense knew we had to pass, Trent was ineffective. Trent Green is probably my 3rd or 4th favorite Chief ever ... but to act like he is HEAD AND SHOULDERS better than Alex Smith is hilarious to me.

Trent was good. Alex is good. Neither were good enough.

Here's the difference:

Alex is able to affect the appearance of mediocrity by not taking chances. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's even average, but that he never puts himself in positions to get exposed (and on the rare occasions it does happen, he's shitiful).

You can say that Green was exposed when he was forced to pass, but if you look at his ability to lead 4th quarter drives, that criticism doesn't hold up.

I can say that I'm an elite driver because I've never gotten in a wreck, but if I've never gotten on an interstate and take back streets everywhere while never going above 30, how good am I? I've avoided the potential of a wreck, but I can't get you to the destination before the doors close.

The most deceptive part of Smith is that you can look at his stats and claim that he's an average or above average QB, but to me that's like looking at Cassel's inflated 2010 TD stats and saying he's a gunslinger when the reality is everyone sold out to stop the run and he tossed a bunch of 1 yard PA TDs to Bowe.

Smith is a stat whore just like Peyton Manning. The only difference is that his stats are INTs and completion percentage rather than things that matter, like yards and touchdowns.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Dude, the KC offensive line and WR corps are substandard by ANY NFL teams standards.

Even Jacksonville has a better receiving corps than Alex Smith has.

If it were me making decisions, I don't throw deep to AJ Jenkins either. I don't trust him. While that happens, neither guard blocks their man and I'm buried under an avalanche of LBS and DLs.

The sacks aren't 'head-scratching'; The line is terrible and the wide receivers cant even make it to the end zone when there's nothing but green to 6 and ball in hand.

You're welcome to your opinion. I'm of the opinion that elements of his game make both the line and the receivers worse. That is not to say that the line is good. It's not. Or at least the left guard wasn't. But he doesn't help his line out in any way.

And the idea that Alex Smith doesn't have anybody to throw the ball is one of the worst long-running fallacies here. Dwayne Bowe starts on literally any team in the league, and is probably a 1000-yard receiver with 2/3 to 3/4 of the other starting quarterbacks. (And personally I think he's a better receiver than Eddie Kennison ever was.) Jamaal Charles is the discussion of best receiving back in the league. Travis Kelce just posted a 67 reception, 864 yard season, virtually identical to Tony Gonzalez in the year in question. DeAnthony Thomas should develop into a better offensive player than Dante Hall. Smith is missing a second starting receiver. Call it a one, call it a two, whatever. However you want to frame it that's pretty much it. The cupboard is no where close to bare.

The lineplay is an issue. There's no question about that. Brian Waters and Will Shields would make a huge difference now. Not to mention Willie Roaf. But this continued idea that Smith didn't have anybody to throw to needs to die. Enough already. They were trying to find one starter to replace the oft-injured Avery, not an entire crew of receivers.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Trent Green, blew an 18 point lead? That's interesting; this whole time I figured it was a defense that gave up 368 passing yards.

I also seem to remember him leading a team that depantsed the Patriots and beat the Broncos (the #2 seed) and put up 37 on another AFC playoff team. Shit, the 2005 Chiefs played six games against playoff teams and won four of them.

Alex Smith has played six playoff teams this year and won twice.

Those two teams you mention are the #1 seeds in both conferences, correct??

Tomato/tomato, the end result has been the same.

I was a Trent Green fan, and I see Alex Smith as being very similar.

Trent didn't give up the 368 passing yards you mention in the Philly game...but, he did throw an INT that lead to a 14 point swing.

How much he relied on Priest became evident in Dallas, when Trent got blindsided by Scott Fajita after LJ whiffed on a block, Green doesn't see it, gets blinded, fumbles, 14 pt swing, we lose, no playoffs...why?? Because Chiefs.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by Pablo

60% of 32 is what?

New England
Miami
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Indianapolis
Denver
San Diego
Oakland
Dallas
Philadelphia
New York
Detroit
Green Bay
Minnesota
Atlanta
Carolina
New Orleans


He could start for:
KC (obviously)
Jacksonville
Tennessee
Tampa Bay
Chicago
Washington
New York
Buffalo
Cleveland
St. Louis
Arizona

But notice three of those teams listed latter will be picking in the top eighth of the draft this year, while Arizona, St. Louis, New York, Chicago and Washington have guys under contract that are hurt or aren't performing up to par in their current offensive schemes.

So sorry. Smith doesn't start for 56% of teams in the NFL next season.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You're welcome to your opinion. I'm of the opinion that elements of his game make both the line and the receivers worse. That is not to say that the line is good. It's not. Or at least the left guard wasn't. But he doesn't help his line out in any way.

And the idea that Alex Smith doesn't have anybody to throw the ball is one of the worst long-running fallacies here. Dwayne Bowe starts on literally any team in the league, and is probably a 1000-yard receiver with 2/3 to 3/4 of the other starting quarterbacks. (And personally I think he's a better receiver than Eddie Kennison ever was.) Jamaal Charles is the discussion of best receiving back in the league. Travis Kelce just posted a 67 reception, 864 yard season, virtually identical to Tony Gonzalez in the year in question. DeAnthony Thomas should develop into a better offensive player than Dante Hall. Smith is missing a second starting receiver. Call it a one, call it a two, whatever. However you want to frame it that's pretty much it. The cupboard is no where close to bare.

The lineplay is an issue. There's no question about that. Brian Waters and Will Shields would make a huge difference now. Not to mention Willie Roaf. But this continued idea that Smith didn't have anybody to throw to needs to die. Enough already. They were trying to find one starter to replace the oft-injured Avery, not an entire crew of receivers.

Jason Avant came in off the street and started proving how shitty every other receiver on this team is.

Including Bowe.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Green relied on Priest because Johnson missed a block? Put Ronnie ****ing Cruz back there and that never happens. That's a vapid criticism.

And you can't throw a pick six that is a 14 point swing if the interception is only a 40 yard return.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Those two teams you mention are the #1 seeds in both conferences, correct??

Tomato/tomato, the end result has been the same.

I was a Trent Green fan, and I see Alex Smith as being very similar.

Trent didn't give up the 368 passing yards you mention in the Philly game...but, he did throw an INT that lead to a 14 point swing.

How much he relied on Priest became evident in Dallas, when Trent got blindsided by Scott Fajita after LJ whiffed on a block, Green doesn't see it, gets blinded, fumbles, 14 pt swing, we lose, no playoffs...why?? Because Chiefs.

Or.. You know.. The 2005 Chiefs miss the playoffs because the defense refused to tackle Tiki Barber...

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

New England
Miami
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Indianapolis
Denver
San Diego
Oakland
Dallas
Philadelphia
New York
Detroit
Green Bay
Minnesota
Atlanta
Carolina
New Orleans


He could start for:
KC (obviously)
Jacksonville
Tennessee
Tampa Bay
Chicago
Washington
New York
Buffalo
Cleveland
St. Louis
Arizona

But notice three of those teams listed latter will be picking in the top eighth of the draft this year, while Arizona, St. Louis, New York, Chicago and Washington have guys under contract that are hurt or aren't performing up to par in their current offensive schemes.

So sorry. Smith doesn't start for 56% of teams in the NFL next season.

I didn't figure you were far off.

Thanks for the extra effort though, it make sense.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

New England
Miami
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Indianapolis
Denver
San Diego
Oakland
Dallas
Philadelphia
New York
Detroit
Green Bay
Minnesota
Atlanta
Carolina
New Orleans


He could start for:
KC (obviously)
Jacksonville
Tennessee
Tampa Bay
Chicago
Washington
New York
Buffalo
Cleveland
St. Louis
Arizona

But notice three of those teams listed latter will be picking in the top eighth of the draft this year, while Arizona, St. Louis, New York, Chicago and Washington have guys under contract that are hurt or aren't performing up to par in their current offensive schemes.

So sorry. Smith doesn't start for 56% of teams in the NFL next season.

I take Smith over :
Cam
Dalton
Bridgewater
Ryan
Stafford
Eli
Flacco
Phyllis
&
Tannehill

Absolutely, Alex Smith is in the top 40% of NFL QBs.

[dls6501]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The most deceptive part of Smith is that you can look at his stats and claim that he's an average or above average QB, but to me that's like looking at Cassel's inflated 2010 TD stats and saying he's a gunslinger when the reality is everyone sold out to stop the run and he tossed a bunch of 1 yard PA TDs to Bowe.

Smith is a stat whore just like Peyton Manning. The only difference is that his stats are INTs and completion percentage rather than things that matter, like yards and touchdowns.

This is the EXACT point I have been trying to argue since we got Alex Smith. You just articulated it much better than I could.

Alex Smith doesn't lose games the conventional way. The way he loses games is hard to quantify for some. Alex deciding not to throw to a wide open WR for a touchdown, affects a game just as much as Jay Cutler throwing an interception....but because a missed non throw isn't measured statistically like an interception, fans are fooled into thinking that Alex is playing good football.

Yes our OLine sucks. Yes our WRs are subpar. But so is our QB. And for Alex fans, it seems as if the third cannot be true if the first two are. They are all true.