Chiefs Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense. - Page 3

oaklandhater · 10-13-2015, 02:55 PM

http://www.kctv5.com/story/30240072/...-older-players

Chiefs starting to face questions about older players

Posted: Oct 12, 2015 8:31 AM PDT
Updated: Oct 12, 2015 10:47 AM PDT
Posted by Chris Oberholtz, Multimedia ProducerCONNECT

Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)
Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -
Andy Reid and John Fox have been around the NFL long enough to see hundreds of players come and go, some of them only after age has rendered their once-potent ability ineffective.

MORE
Loss of Charles a possible dagger in the Chiefs season

At the start of the second half the Kansas City offense was driving down the field, poised to extend their lead to 24-3 over Chicago.

Then near the goal line on a Jamaal Charles carry, the Chiefs season outlook suffered a big loss.

Continue reading >>
Related Links
Chiefs lose Charles to potentially season-ending knee injury
Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense.

The Chiefs are actually among the youngest teams in the NFL, the product of several seasons spent picking early in the draft.

But they also have a pair of starting linebackers in Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali that are among the oldest in the NFL, raising the question: Has the game started to catch up to two of the best to ever wear a Chiefs uniform?

"I don't see that decline from our older players right now. I don't think that's the issue," Reid said. "I think they're playing hard and doing the things they've done before."

Reid also acknowledged that the tape — and numbers — rarely lie.

In the case of Hali, the formerly feared pass rusher has just six tackles and one sack through four games. That puts Hali on pace for the fewest stops of his 10-year career, and the fewest sacks since he had three in 2008, his third season in the league.

More importantly, the fact that the four-time Pro Bowl selection has been less effective has had a spillover effect on the rest of the defense.

Teams are more easily able to double-team Justin Houston on the other side, or help with nose tackle Dontari Poe. And if a quarterback has more time to throw, it puts additional strain on the defensive backfield.

The result is the league's 29th-ranked defense, allowing nearly 400 yards per game, and one that is tied with this week's opponent, the Chicago Bears, for most points allowed.

"We've got a good group," Chiefs defensive coordinator Bob Sutton said. "You have to be very careful not to let your emotion, the highs of winning and the lows of losing, affect you."

Yet emotion is exactly what often forces coaches to leave unproductive players on the field too long. They remember what a player has done in the past rather than take stock of what he is capable of doing in the present, their image of him clouded by sentimentality and time.

Hali, who has not been available to reporters this week, has certainly made it difficult to view him as anything other than a star. He has 80 1/2 sacks in his career, trailing only Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith for most in franchise history. He had 14 1/2 during the 2010 season, which still stands as the fifth-best mark in the Chiefs record book.

He also has proven invaluable in tutoring Houston, now one of the NFL's top pass rushers, and Dee Ford, a first-round pick who is being groomed as Hali's successor.

"One of the foundations of being successful is the loyalty you have to people," said Fox, who is in his first season leading the Bears but got plenty of questions about whether Peyton Manning was washed up during his time coaching the Denver Broncos.

"It can be a tough call," Fox said. "I've had some very tough ones along the way. We're a performance-based business and as a coach or general manager or decision-maker, those are tough calls — how they fit in your system, how capable and reliable they are through time."

Hali, who took a significant pay cut to stay in Kansas City this season, has clearly been reliable. He has rarely been hurt, often playing through the pain of nicks and bruises.

Perhaps all of those are finally catching up to him.

"You know, a lot of them have accomplished a lot for you, so it makes it difficult," Fox said of the challenges that coaches face when it comes to aging players. "It's a tough thing to do."

Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

scho63 · 10-13-2015, 04:37 PM

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

oaklandhater · 10-13-2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

one is on its way to being historically bad the other just suck's with a historically bad QB.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/bb/showthread.php?t=295100

Dayze · 10-13-2015, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

would you rather get punched in the nose or kicked in the nuts?

that's always been the one I've used.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 10-13-2015, 04:48 PM

It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over.

When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up.

"Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.

**Baby Lee** · 10-13-2015, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over.

When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up.

"Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.

reeruned. The Ravens' defense was better in 98 and 99 when they were 4-12 and had ABSOLUTELY no offense, than they were even when they carried their team to the SB.

**Rain Man** · 10-13-2015, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over.

When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up.

"Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.

I dunno. I would think that the best players want to be on the field.

Maybe I'm abnormal, and admittedly my playing days stopped at ... umm ... pickup games in high school. But if the offense turned the ball over, I'd be all wagging my tail like a labrador saying, "I get to go on the field again!"

Sweet Daddy Hate · 10-13-2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

reeruned. The Ravens' defense was better in 98 and 99 when they were 4-12 and had ABSOLUTELY no offense, than they were even when they carried their team to the SB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I dunno. I would think that the best players want to be on the field.

Maybe I'm abnormal, and admittedly my playing days stopped at ... umm ... pickup games in high school. But if the offense turned the ball over, I'd be all wagging my tail like a labrador saying, "I get to go on the field again!"

The Chiefs deplete all things good and competitive over time. This is a proven fact.

Reerun_KC · 10-13-2015, 05:47 PM

Reids gonna spin this as the defense is the problem to 'protect him and smith...

Sweet Daddy Hate · 10-13-2015, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Reids gonna spin this as the defense is the problem to 'protect him and smith...

I will shove a cold slab up his ass, and pull it out his throat.

saphojunkie · 10-13-2015, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Chiefs defense is 29th in the league and has given up two leads in final minute out of 5 games, fans think a QB will fix everything.

Your leg is bleeding out.

The house is on fire.

Baby Lee is standing there, defiantly. "Your leg is bleeding profusely, but you think getting out of this house solves everything!"

No.

But if you don't get the **** out of the house, it doesn't matter what other problems you solve.

saphojunkie · 10-13-2015, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over.

When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up.

"Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.

Said as much monday morning to a friend. Next around the corner is the defense completely giving up and this team going 3-13.

Hammock Parties · 10-13-2015, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Next around the corner is the defense completely giving up and this team going 3-13.

RED TEAM GOIN' DOWN! DOWN DOWN DOWN!

Hog's Gone Fishin · 10-13-2015, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63

This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit.

That's not an argument . Dog shit is horrible . Horse shit smells good.

rtmike · 10-13-2015, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayze

he does.
though it's the subsequent steps where he runs directly into the waiting arms of a LT/RT, or somehow otherwise takes himself out of a play completely, that he needs to work on.

He's damn good at pacing and running parallel with the opposing team's QB.

Next up, Hali's gonna teach Ford how to position himself so all the TV cameras show how the other team is holding.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 10-13-2015, 06:35 PM

10-13-2015, 02:55 PM
oaklandhater future chiefs fans Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: oakland california Casino cash: $5798993	Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense. http://www.kctv5.com/story/30240072/...-older-players Chiefs starting to face questions about older players Posted: Oct 12, 2015 8:31 AM PDT Updated: Oct 12, 2015 10:47 AM PDT Posted by Chris Oberholtz, Multimedia ProducerCONNECT Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel) Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel) KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) - Andy Reid and John Fox have been around the NFL long enough to see hundreds of players come and go, some of them only after age has rendered their once-potent ability ineffective. MORE Loss of Charles a possible dagger in the Chiefs season At the start of the second half the Kansas City offense was driving down the field, poised to extend their lead to 24-3 over Chicago. Then near the goal line on a Jamaal Charles carry, the Chiefs season outlook suffered a big loss. Continue reading >> Related Links Chiefs lose Charles to potentially season-ending knee injury Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense. The Chiefs are actually among the youngest teams in the NFL, the product of several seasons spent picking early in the draft. But they also have a pair of starting linebackers in Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali that are among the oldest in the NFL, raising the question: Has the game started to catch up to two of the best to ever wear a Chiefs uniform? "I don't see that decline from our older players right now. I don't think that's the issue," Reid said. "I think they're playing hard and doing the things they've done before." Reid also acknowledged that the tape — and numbers — rarely lie. In the case of Hali, the formerly feared pass rusher has just six tackles and one sack through four games. That puts Hali on pace for the fewest stops of his 10-year career, and the fewest sacks since he had three in 2008, his third season in the league. More importantly, the fact that the four-time Pro Bowl selection has been less effective has had a spillover effect on the rest of the defense. Teams are more easily able to double-team Justin Houston on the other side, or help with nose tackle Dontari Poe. And if a quarterback has more time to throw, it puts additional strain on the defensive backfield. The result is the league's 29th-ranked defense, allowing nearly 400 yards per game, and one that is tied with this week's opponent, the Chicago Bears, for most points allowed. "We've got a good group," Chiefs defensive coordinator Bob Sutton said. "You have to be very careful not to let your emotion, the highs of winning and the lows of losing, affect you." Yet emotion is exactly what often forces coaches to leave unproductive players on the field too long. They remember what a player has done in the past rather than take stock of what he is capable of doing in the present, their image of him clouded by sentimentality and time. Hali, who has not been available to reporters this week, has certainly made it difficult to view him as anything other than a star. He has 80 1/2 sacks in his career, trailing only Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith for most in franchise history. He had 14 1/2 during the 2010 season, which still stands as the fifth-best mark in the Chiefs record book. He also has proven invaluable in tutoring Houston, now one of the NFL's top pass rushers, and Dee Ford, a first-round pick who is being groomed as Hali's successor. "One of the foundations of being successful is the loyalty you have to people," said Fox, who is in his first season leading the Bears but got plenty of questions about whether Peyton Manning was washed up during his time coaching the Denver Broncos. "It can be a tough call," Fox said. "I've had some very tough ones along the way. We're a performance-based business and as a coach or general manager or decision-maker, those are tough calls — how they fit in your system, how capable and reliable they are through time." Hali, who took a significant pay cut to stay in Kansas City this season, has clearly been reliable. He has rarely been hurt, often playing through the pain of nicks and bruises. Perhaps all of those are finally catching up to him. "You know, a lot of them have accomplished a lot for you, so it makes it difficult," Fox said of the challenges that coaches face when it comes to aging players. "It's a tough thing to do." Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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10-13-2015, 04:37 PM	#31
scho63 Politically Incorrect Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Casino cash: $-990000	This offense vs defense argument is like arguing between which smells worse, dog shit or horse shit. __________________ *"The only difference between sex for free and sex for money is that sex for free costs you a WHOLE LOT more!"* ~Redd Foxx~ ~~2018 2019 2020 20212022 2023~~ 2024 Adopt a Chief - Clark Hunt and Brett Veach "The men who drafted Patrick Mahomes"
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10-13-2015, 04:48 PM	#34
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	It's not stats, nor time on the field. I've seen this 1000000 times over. When you have a craptastic offense, in this case spearheaded by a couple of morons, one on the field and one on the sideline, the defense gives up. "Oh yeah, let me get you a pick sick or a sack/strip so I can watch you shit yourself for 40 seconds of clock time before my happy ass is back on the field again; coming right up"! Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright. __________________ 1. Merciless, severe. 2. Given freely and generously. 100% refusal to overrate 20 year Head Coaches with ZERO **ing rings as a Head Coach. CP's Official Professor of 'Dem Blues for 2019/2020!**
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10-13-2015, 05:47 PM	#38
Reerun_KC Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7231160	Reids gonna spin this as the defense is the problem to 'protect him and smith...
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10-13-2015, 06:35 PM	#45
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1559523	nlm
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