Chiefs Patrick Mahomes Might Force Chiefs Hand In 2017 - Page 5

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 12:10 PM

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...-hand-in-2017/

Patrick Mahomes might force Chiefs hand in 2017

The much-lamented quarterback class of 2017 is looking pretty good all of a sudden. Mitchell Trubisky is pushing the Bears decision-making process as much as John Fox can be pushed, Deshaun Watson is going to make Bill O'Brien at least think about his Week 1 status and, most interestingly, Patrick Mahomes has found himself in a perfect situation and is turning heads early.
Do you love Mahomes and consider him the most upside-riddled quarterback of this draft class? Congratulations! You are not actually a special snowflake. Everyone does. Mahomes has a cannon. It's unfair for Alex Smith, a genuinely nice human being who is an average-to-above average quarterback, that he finds himself once again squaring off against a young physical marvel on the depth chart. The good news for Smith is he looks really good this preseason. The bad news is so does Mahomes. Before we get to that, though, how much pressure can this guy actually put on Andy Reid? History tells us there is a good deal Mahomes could do to press Reid into playing him.

Reid waited a while to hand the starting job to the the first quarterback he ever drafted, Donovan McNabb, after taking the Syracuse product No. 2 overall in 1999. And when he finally did, in Week 10, the Eagles were out of the playoff race, sitting at 2-7. After letting McNab take his lumps in a relief role, it was time to see what the highly-drafted rookie had to offer as a full-time starter. McNabb got a rough welcome to the NFL when he made his NFL debut against the Bucs in Week 2, getting sacked six times by the eventual NFC Central champions (remember that this Bucs team was the basis for the eventual Super Bowl championship defense). In a fun twist of fate, the guy McNabb replaced as the starter was Doug Pederson, who is the current Eagles coach and former offensive coordinator for Alex Smith.

Andy Reid waited until Week 10 of Donovan McNabb's rookie season before naming him the starter. Two years later, Reid selected A.J. Feeley in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft. That's not notable for Feeley being a guy who might have taken playing time, but he is another quarterback in a long list of Reid protégés who ended up being traded for a high draft pick. The point being, when Andy Reid latches onto a quarterback in the draft, people take notice. Reid went a long time between taking McNabb early and grabbing another quarterback. Again, notable. If Reid is spending high draft capital on a quarterback, there should be a belief he can win with said quarterback for a long time. He also probably thinks that quarterback is capable of winning and/or playing early. Patrick Mahomes was the 12th player drafted.

Kevin Kolb was the second quarterback taken by Reid with a high pick in his Eagles tenure. Kolb was taken out of Houston with a second-round pick in 2007 (the Eagles actually traded down out of the first round with the Cowboys who took Anthony Spencer). He didn't replace McNabb immediately, but Kolb is also a clear-cut historical marker in terms of Reid making sure he has quarterback insurance. McNabb was battling injuries during that stretch, coming off the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots, and would be gone after 2009.

That year featured a storm of controversy, too, with Michael Vick and Kolb nipping on McNabb's heels for playing time. Ultimately it was McNabb's team, but with Vick and Kolb on the roster, there were plenty of people chirping to see the other options. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town, and that's been the case for Andy Reid's teams in the past.
Vick and Kolb ran the team in 2010 after McNabb left and then Kolb was traded. The "Dream Team" of 2011 followed, but it wouldn't be long before a draft pick caused trouble on the roster again. Nick Foles, taken in the third round of the 2012 NFL Draft, was firmly entrenched in Reid-style controversy within his first year. Foles started six games for Reid in 2012 and that led to serious concern about who should start in 2013, when Foles went 8-2 as a starter under Chip Kelly.

Ultimately what you see from Reid is a history of high draft picks playing early. McNabb was under center three quarters of the way through the season in his rookie year. Kolb was held at bay, but McNabb aged better than Reid expected and it still ended in McNabb being dealt to the Redskins. The Michael Vick thing was a different animal. Er, situation. Foles played quickly, starting multiple games his first year. Which brings us back to Mahomes, who has looked just absolutely tools-y this preseason. Mahomes, who played in Kliff Kingsbury's system at Texas Tech, is going to require some refinement. But he has everything you would want to see in a quarterback from a physical perspective. If you buy into Reid developing quarterbacks -- and why wouldn't you? -- Mahomes is a fascinating prospect. He has underrated speed and is strong enough too take hits and still make throws.

Mahomes is faster and stronger than just about everyone on the field. As a quarterback that is an undeniable advantage. He can shrug off blitzers but he can also deftly evade people coming at him on the rush. And if he needs to, Mahomes can whip a quick throw on short notice. All that is well and good, but the downside of Mahomes is he's not harnessed right now either. He can be, and it's easy to see Reid figuring out how. Mahomes might be a stronger, slightly slower, more twitchy version of McNabb with a better arm. Alex Smith is on notice, although he knew that coming into the preseason. The guess here, two weeks into the season, is that Smith won't lose his job as long as the Chiefs are winning.

If Kansas City falters or the offense looks flat, don't be surprised to see Mahomes. Reid's history makes it clear he is willing to run with a young talent he trusted in the draft. He believes in his quarterback development almost as much as he believes in his talent evaluation. Maybe more.

BryanBusby · 08-21-2017, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What? DJ's not been the same player since 2015 and the Chiefs don't value the ILB position. Plus, they've drafted Ramik and Eligwe, traded for KPL and have March as well.

RNR is your NT if Logan isn't re-signed, a punter should be a undrafted Free Agent and the Chiefs have Ford and Houston as their starters, with Nicolas in development.

They're not spending massive amounts of money in Free Agency. Any replacements will be through the draft.

They're not going on some $40 million dollar shopping spree, even if they do release Smith. They'll use that dough to lock up Peters and others.

March is on his way to being a cut and Ramik Wilson will be a UFA next year. KPL is a FA too.

RNR is a FA next year.

They will have to add someone behind Ford, and ideally find his replacement if they aren't certain they will lock him up long term.

staylor26 · 08-21-2017, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

March is on his way to being a cut and Ramik Wilson will be a UFA next year. KPL is a FA too.

RNR is a FA next year.

They will have to add someone behind Ford, and ideally find his replacement if they aren't certain they will lock him up long term.

I'm pretty sure RNR isn't a free agent till 2019.

**Baby Lee** · 08-21-2017, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazod

I'll say this - there's only one way the Chiefs will ever win the Super Bowl - that's with a charismatic, stud gunslinger QB who garners national attention. One who not only wins games, but captures the imagination, and jersey-sale dollars, of all those soulless bandwagon scumbags who fawn over whoever ESPN tells them to. When Mahomes can line up with the likes of Manning, Brady and Roethlisburger, that's when shit will start to fall in place. That's when those crushing phantom calls and obvious non-calls that nobody cares about but us start going against the other guys. That's when we start being an elite team and stop being a shiny red doormat for the elite teams. Seriously, if Manning can win it all in ****ing shithole Indianapolis, Mahomes can do it in Kansas City.

But Alice can't. He will NEVER be that guy. And every game he starts just delays the future that much more. Get him the **** out of here now while we can get real value for him and jump start the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

Yep.

We need a star to get the breaks.

There's a Miss America pageant on network TV every year, if that's more your speed.

BryanBusby · 08-21-2017, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I'm pretty sure RNR isn't a free agent till 2019.

Overthecap says 2017 is his last year under contract.

**SAUTO** · 08-21-2017, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico

To me, one of the most interesting things about Smith going from Smith/Kaepernick to Smith/Mahomes is that in Colin Kaepernick's rookie preseason, he threw for 0 TD's, 5 INT's. In his 2nd year, he threw for 2 TD's 0 INT's.

I think it's safe to say that Mahomes has fared better than Kaep when it comes to challenging Smith for the spot in the preseason...even if starting him is considered out of the question by the Chiefs' staff.

mahomes is better right now than kap ever was or will be

**notorious** · 08-21-2017, 02:55 PM

I have no idea what that means Baby Lee.

**Ming the Merciless** · 08-21-2017, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I can almost guarantee that the Chiefs aren't going after some high priced WR free agent, especially after moving up for Conley and Chesson along with drafting DAT, Robinson and Hill.

Those "holes" are hardly "massive".

More like a pin hole.

I agree to disagree here. WR isnt important right now because aslex dfoesnt even throw to WR's ....But the crew that we have now hardly has a prototype WR1 stud in it. I think next season we will try to draft a WR and if we dont we most certainly would try and get a FA stud. Why wouldnt we?

PAChiefsGuy · 08-21-2017, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

Disagree

I do think there will be a fire under him for the obvious reasons plus he wants to showcase himself to get the best pay day /offer that he can in the future

That being said, it will probably mean he will throw a few more picks and incomplete passes as he might try to force things here and there instead of being safe.

This could actually work to our favor as long as the pressure doesn't get to him and he doesnt fall apart.

I agree with this. I think that pass to Kelce in preseason last game was very unSmith-like and certainly not a "safe," throw and I expect to see more throws like this during the regular season.

Man, you can't ask for a better throw than this. Alex has looked good throwing the ball down the field this preseason in a small sample size pic.twitter.com/dH37s6a03d
— Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) August 20, 2017

No doubt in my mind he will be more aggressive this year. How much more aggressive is the question.

**Baby Lee** · 08-21-2017, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

I have no idea what that means Baby Lee.

If you want to win the SB on the basis of the refs thinking your QB is cute, maybe try a beauty pageant instead of a sports competition.

**notorious** · 08-21-2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

If you want to win the SB on the basis of the refs thinking your QB is cute, maybe try a beauty pageant instead of a sports competition.

So the greats never get breaks in big games?

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

March is on his way to being a cut and Ramik Wilson will be a UFA next year. KPL is a FA too.

RNR is a FA next year.

Ramik Wilson was drafted in 2015, same as RNR. Neither will be eligible for UFA until 2019.

KPL was injured and spent most of his rookie season on IR, so I don't think he'll have enough credited years to become an UFA in 2018.

Again, the Chiefs don't value the ILB position so I'd expect Veach to draft a guy in the late rounds again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

They will have to add someone behind Ford, and ideally find his replacement if they aren't certain they will lock him up long term.

The Chiefs have used the 5th year option on Ford, so he's a Chief until the end of 2018. If he plays well this year, I'd imagine they'll extend him at some point but regardless, they aren't hitting the free agency and dumping $12-15 million on a guy opposite of Houston.

Coochie liquor · 08-21-2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

I think they will find ways to get Patrick on the field even if it is some trickery play against the Donkies on a Monday Night. Andy Reid loves doing those kinds of things.

Andy is gonna make VaJona look stupid.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

Overthecap says 2017 is his last year under contract.

He was drafted in 2015. Guys drafted late in the draft sign only 3 year contracts but they're under Club Control for 4 years.

Frazod · 08-21-2017, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

There's a Miss America pageant on network TV every year, if that's more your speed.

In the past 15 years, only twice have there have been AFC quarterbacks in the Super Bowl not named Manning, Brady or Roethlisberger.

Twice. Do you see any sort of ****ing pattern there?

Not sure at this point who the next generation's going to include, but I'd rather be one of the few, because being one of the many sucks. And I'd rather they started ASAP, because I'm not getting any younger.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

I agree to disagree here. WR isnt important right now because aslex dfoesnt even throw to WR's ....But the crew that we have now hardly has a prototype WR1 stud in it. I think next season we will try to draft a WR and if we dont we most certainly would try and get a FA stud. Why wouldnt we?

Tyreek Hill isn't a #1 receiver?

And no, I do not believe that under any circumstance, the Chiefs are paying $12 million to a free agent WR again.

I think they've learned their lesson, especially since that in the WCO, the #1, TE and RB are the primary receivers with the #2 and #3 way down the list of importance.

08-21-2017, 12:10 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Patrick Mahomes Might Force Chiefs Hand In 2017 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...-hand-in-2017/ Patrick Mahomes might force Chiefs hand in 2017 The much-lamented quarterback class of 2017 is looking pretty good all of a sudden. Mitchell Trubisky is pushing the Bears decision-making process as much as John Fox can be pushed, Deshaun Watson is going to make Bill O'Brien at least think about his Week 1 status and, most interestingly, Patrick Mahomes has found himself in a perfect situation and is turning heads early. Do you love Mahomes and consider him the most upside-riddled quarterback of this draft class? Congratulations! You are not actually a special snowflake. Everyone does. Mahomes has a cannon. It's unfair for Alex Smith, a genuinely nice human being who is an average-to-above average quarterback, that he finds himself once again squaring off against a young physical marvel on the depth chart. The good news for Smith is he looks really good this preseason. The bad news is so does Mahomes. Before we get to that, though, how much pressure can this guy actually put on Andy Reid? History tells us there is a good deal Mahomes could do to press Reid into playing him. Reid waited a while to hand the starting job to the the first quarterback he ever drafted, Donovan McNabb, after taking the Syracuse product No. 2 overall in 1999. And when he finally did, in Week 10, the Eagles were out of the playoff race, sitting at 2-7. After letting McNab take his lumps in a relief role, it was time to see what the highly-drafted rookie had to offer as a full-time starter. McNabb got a rough welcome to the NFL when he made his NFL debut against the Bucs in Week 2, getting sacked six times by the eventual NFC Central champions (remember that this Bucs team was the basis for the eventual Super Bowl championship defense). In a fun twist of fate, the guy McNabb replaced as the starter was Doug Pederson, who is the current Eagles coach and former offensive coordinator for Alex Smith. Andy Reid waited until Week 10 of Donovan McNabb's rookie season before naming him the starter. Two years later, Reid selected A.J. Feeley in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft. That's not notable for Feeley being a guy who might have taken playing time, but he is another quarterback in a long list of Reid protégés who ended up being traded for a high draft pick. The point being, when Andy Reid latches onto a quarterback in the draft, people take notice. Reid went a long time between taking McNabb early and grabbing another quarterback. Again, notable. If Reid is spending high draft capital on a quarterback, there should be a belief he can win with said quarterback for a long time. He also probably thinks that quarterback is capable of winning and/or playing early. Patrick Mahomes was the 12th player drafted. Kevin Kolb was the second quarterback taken by Reid with a high pick in his Eagles tenure. Kolb was taken out of Houston with a second-round pick in 2007 (the Eagles actually traded down out of the first round with the Cowboys who took Anthony Spencer). He didn't replace McNabb immediately, but Kolb is also a clear-cut historical marker in terms of Reid making sure he has quarterback insurance. McNabb was battling injuries during that stretch, coming off the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots, and would be gone after 2009. That year featured a storm of controversy, too, with Michael Vick and Kolb nipping on McNabb's heels for playing time. Ultimately it was McNabb's team, but with Vick and Kolb on the roster, there were plenty of people chirping to see the other options. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town, and that's been the case for Andy Reid's teams in the past. Vick and Kolb ran the team in 2010 after McNabb left and then Kolb was traded. The "Dream Team" of 2011 followed, but it wouldn't be long before a draft pick caused trouble on the roster again. Nick Foles, taken in the third round of the 2012 NFL Draft, was firmly entrenched in Reid-style controversy within his first year. Foles started six games for Reid in 2012 and that led to serious concern about who should start in 2013, when Foles went 8-2 as a starter under Chip Kelly. Ultimately what you see from Reid is a history of high draft picks playing early. McNabb was under center three quarters of the way through the season in his rookie year. Kolb was held at bay, but McNabb aged better than Reid expected and it still ended in McNabb being dealt to the Redskins. The Michael Vick thing was a different animal. Er, situation. Foles played quickly, starting multiple games his first year. Which brings us back to Mahomes, who has looked just absolutely tools-y this preseason. Mahomes, who played in Kliff Kingsbury's system at Texas Tech, is going to require some refinement. But he has everything you would want to see in a quarterback from a physical perspective. If you buy into Reid developing quarterbacks -- and why wouldn't you? -- Mahomes is a fascinating prospect. He has underrated speed and is strong enough too take hits and still make throws. Mahomes is faster and stronger than just about everyone on the field. As a quarterback that is an undeniable advantage. He can shrug off blitzers but he can also deftly evade people coming at him on the rush. And if he needs to, Mahomes can whip a quick throw on short notice. All that is well and good, but the downside of Mahomes is he's not harnessed right now either. He can be, and it's easy to see Reid figuring out how. Mahomes might be a stronger, slightly slower, more twitchy version of McNabb with a better arm. Alex Smith is on notice, although he knew that coming into the preseason. The guess here, two weeks into the season, is that Smith won't lose his job as long as the Chiefs are winning. If Kansas City falters or the offense looks flat, don't be surprised to see Mahomes. Reid's history makes it clear he is willing to run with a young talent he trusted in the draft. He believes in his quarterback development almost as much as he believes in his talent evaluation. Maybe more.
Posts: 88,960

08-21-2017, 02:55 PM	#66
notorious Supporter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Who knows? Casino cash: $-1034116	I have no idea what that means Baby Lee.
Posts: 88,597