Chiefs 2018 NFL midseason awards - Page 4

Msmith · 11-05-2018, 11:46 AM

Interesting take in comparing Brees and Mahomes;

"Let's work through these two together, since they stand apart for me. The most obvious difference is the touchdown total. Mahomes has 29 touchdown passes. Twenty-nine! Brees has 18. Andrew Luck has 23, and nobody else in the league tops 20. The second-year sensation Mahomes is throwing for touchdowns on 9.1 percent of his passes, the second-highest mark in the league behind Ryan Fitzpatrick. The only passer to hit 9 percent in a 500-attempt season is Aaron Rodgers in 2011. Tom Brady didn't do it in 2007. Dan Marino didn't do it in 1984. This is a big advantage for Mahomes.

And then, when you start working through the rest of the categories, Brees picks up advantages, some significant. The veteran has thrown one interception on 279 pass attempts. Mahomes has thrown seven in 317 tries, although his pick on Sunday was essentially a Hail Mary after poor Chiefs clock management. Mahomes is completing 66.2 percent of his passes. Brees is completing 76.3 percent of his throws. Just as Mahomes is challenging the touchdown record, Brees is threatening to take the completion percentage record and jump it from 72.1 percent by more than 4 percentage points. Completions can be overrated, but 40.9 percent of Brees' completions go for first downs, which is well above the league average of 36.3 percent.

Mahomes is averaging nearly a full yard more per pass than Brees, but a lot of that comes from his receivers' work on screens. Strip them out and Brees is completing 74.9 percent of his passes and averaging 8.7 yards per attempt. Mahomes is completing 61.9 percent of his non-screen passes while averaging ... 8.7 yards per attempt. Both marks are great. You don't need me to tell you Brees' is better.

Of course, while both teams have excellent weapons, there's a reason I ranked the Chiefs' weapons as the scariest in football before the season. Brees' top two receivers are Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara. Pretty terrifying. Mahomes gets to work with Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt. Also scary. After that, though, Mahomes' next two guys up are Travis Kelce and Sammy Watkins. Brees is working with Benjamin Watson and either Ted Ginn Jr. or rookie Tre'Quan Smith, depending on when you're judging the arsenals. Brees has Mark Ingram to help in pass protection and a better offensive line given the injuries on the interior for the Chiefs, but Mahomes has more with which to work.

I'm not exactly the QB wins type, but the Saints are 7-1 and the Chiefs are 8-1. The Saints' lone loss came in a game against the Bucs in which Brees put up 40 points and his defense allowed 48 points. The Chiefs' lone loss came in a game in which Mahomes scored 40 points and his defense allowed 43 points to the Patriots. The only thing I might mention is that Mahomes left a couple of would-be touchdowns on the table with bad throws in the first half. It would be foolish to say Mahomes played badly, but it also would be naive to pretend he couldn't have played better given the opportunities at hand.

The case for Mahomes outside of the touchdowns isn't as obvious, at least to me. He has thrown 38 more passes than Brees, the product of not yet having his bye week. Mahomes offers far more with his legs than Brees, as the Texas Tech product has 144 rushing yards and two touchdowns on 25 carries once you remove those pesky kneel-downs from his totals. Brees, ceding touches in the running game to Taysom Hill, has turned nine carries into 34 yards, although he also has two scores on sneaks, which mitigates some of the gap between the two.

At the end of the day, there just isn't much between these two. Brees has a passer rating of 120.6 and a Total QBR of 84.5. Mahomes has a passer rating of 116.7 and a Total QBR of 85.4. They're 1-2 in each category. Maybe I lean toward Brees because the sentimental, sappy side of me wants to see the 39-year-old Brees finally win league MVP before he retires. If you prefer Mahomes, I can't fault you. If Mahomes gets to 56 passing touchdowns and breaks the league record in his first full year as a starter, I'll join you on that side of the fence. For now, though, very narrowly, I lean toward Brees."

Link:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...-rookies-plays

KChiefs1 · 11-05-2018, 09:50 PM

Brees would be better than giving it to Gurley over Mahomes.

Gotta hope for a couple of bad games for Brees.

KChiefs1 · 11-05-2018, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I dunno there is this huge push to give it to Brees cause people feel bad he's never won one.

That’s what will win it for him.

KChiefs1 · 11-05-2018, 10:13 PM

David Carr
https://youtu.be/YBztXSSqVTo

Bump · 11-05-2018, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Bullshit to penalize someone because of the assets at their disposal.

People act like Nathan Peterman would be leading this offense to a #1 seed too. It's absolutely ridiculous. Mahomes is making everyone around him better, just like he did in college. The only difference is some of the guys around him were already great.

seriously, we are +1 Sammy Watkins when you compare this year to last year.

Mahomes is MVP right now, he completely elevated this offense to a level that only he could have elevated it to.

Rasputin · 11-05-2018, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bump

seriously, we are +1 Sammy Watkins when you compare this year to last year.

Mahomes is MVP right now, he completely elevated this offense to a level that only he could have elevated it to.

Watkins didn't even contribute more than 1 or 2 catches a game first five games..

Basileus777 · 11-06-2018, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Last week people were saying Gurly was the MVP over Mahomes.

Hunt is gaining on him- 16 total TD's to Hunt's 13 Total Td's

So the L A Lambs lose and now it is Brees over Mahomes-lol

Brees is having a fine year, but Mahomes is redefining the QB position.

It's settled in that Gurley has no chance at Tomlinson's TD record and he's no longer on an undefeated team, so his chances are pretty much shot.

Brees is getting too much love right now because he's coming off a huge win on national TV and if you don't look at the Saints future schedule it looks like they could be a the top seed in the NFC. But the Saints will drop a few games and the narrative will change.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-06-2018, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Nah, **** all that. I'll argue that Aaron Rodgers' 2010 postseason continuing into his 2011 regular season was the best stretch any QB's played in NFL history. Brees' season was great but he was only even mentioned because of volume stats. He put up 5,400 yards to Rodgers' 4,600 but it took him 150 more attempts to do so. Rodgers literally averaged a full yard more per attempt. They both threw for 45 TDs but Rodgers only threw 6 INTs to Brees' 14.

Rodgers' 2011 legitimately shits on Brees'.

2009 is a better argument. Brees was statistically better than Peyton but Manning took that team to 14-0 before he sat out and they finally lost a game.

Even if you contend that Brees should have won, it's hardly a snub. That was also the year that CJ2k went over 2,000 and Brett Favre went off as well.

I wasn't saying there was a snub. I'm saying he's had plenty of seasons where he had every right to be an MVP. He's lost plenty of MVPs in a virtual toss-up. There's the 2 years I mentioned. There's 2006 and 2010 losing to Brady (repeat MVP winners have incredibly high bars to climb to win. Otherwise Lebron & MJ would have far more MVPs). Arguably Tomlinson in 2006.

It's ridiculous Brees doesn't have an MVP by now. And I think years of not giving him the nod will bite us. I'm biased and would pick Mahomes, but it's really hard for anyone to make a credible argument for why Brees is any less qualified.

Basileus777 · 11-06-2018, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I wasn't saying there was a snub. I'm saying he's had plenty of seasons where he had every right to be an MVP. He's lost plenty of MVPs in a virtual toss-up. There's the 2 years I mentioned. There's 2006 and 2010 losing to Brady (repeat MVP winners have incredibly high bars to climb to win. Otherwise Lebron & MJ would have far more MVPs). Arguably Tomlinson in 2006.

There's zero argument for Brees over Tomlinson in 2006. 31 TDs and 2300 yards from scrimmage on the best team in the league, it's arguably the best season a RB has ever had. Brees had a fine year, but Tomlinson's was far more impressive and historic.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-06-2018, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basileus777

There's zero argument for Brees over Tomlinson in 2006. 31 TDs and 2300 yards from scrimmage on the best team in the league, it's arguably the best season a RB has ever had.

In an era loaded with tons of RBs gaining around 2000 all purpose yards. Even LJ was way above 2000 that year. And we all know that RBs need to be really outstanding to beat a QB.

Meanwhile Brees turned around a 3-13 team, led them to their first playoff in a gajillion years (with an average supporting cast), and he led the league with 4400 passing yards (which is pretty much equivalent to 5000+ yards passing today).

Again, I'm not saying he was snubbed. But Brees was most definitely a viable MVP candidate in 2006.

Basileus777 · 11-06-2018, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

In an era loaded with tons of RBs gaining around 2000 all purpose yards. Even LJ was way above 2000 that year. And we all know that RBs need to be really outstanding to beat a QB.

Meanwhile Brees turned around a 3-13 team, led them to their first playoff in a gajillion years (with an average supporting cast), and he led the league with 4400 passing yards (which is pretty much equivalent to 5000+ yards passing today).

Again, I'm not saying he was snubbed. But Brees was most definitely a viable MVP candidate in 2006.

A viable candidate in another year perhaps, but not against a historic season that still no one has come close to replicating. QBs throw for a lot of yards every year, it's just not in the same realm as what Tomlinson did, especially on a team markedly worse.

Brees has had an amazing career, he's just never had a single year where he was the best player in the league.

TwistedChief · 11-06-2018, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Whenever I think of Drew Brees, I think of this commercial more than anything on the football field, and this commercial is horrific. I had never heard of "hot yoga" at the time, so I thought his hot yoga line was an incredibly awkward flirting thing.

I couldn't vote for Brees for MVP solely because of this commercial. You just don't do that kind of thing.

That's odd. I felt this commercial only enhanced Derek Carr's MVP odds yet his career has seemingly fallen off a cliff since it was released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8R17ja7nEs

thegame214 · 11-06-2018, 04:23 AM

Mahomes gets num 1 seed he's MVP locked.

Brees still has panthers twice, the reg season record will come into play unless Mahomes hits 50 TDs, then it's a lock.

Brady won with 30 something lol

**HemiEd** · 11-06-2018, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Brees is going to get this award because of sentimentally, it's ****ing stupid and lame.

We have seen this show before. The QB swan song. Elway had it and so did Peyton Manning. Thankfully, Eli is sucking so bad we won't have too deal with that one.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-06-2018, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basileus777

A viable candidate in another year perhaps, but not against a historic season that still no one has come close to replicating. QBs throw for a lot of yards every year, it's just not in the same realm as what Tomlinson did, especially on a team markedly worse.

Brees has had an amazing career, he's just never had a single year where he was the best player in the league.

LT was definitely the frontrunner. But just so we're clear, Tomlinsons rushing/receiving records have been beaten several times. The title belongs to Chris Johnson, who does not have an mvp. His td record hasnt been matched, but Alexander beat the TD record the year before and priest the year before that. Hindsight is 20/20... Lt was an obvious choice at the time, but knowing what we know now about RBs in that era, it's more of a toss up than you think. 4400 yards with a mediocre supporting cast in that time was an elite season.

Sannyasi · 11-06-2018, 08:07 AM

I think if either:
-Mahomes breaks one of the big counting records, yards or touchdowns, or
-the Chiefs finish 15-1, becoming the "story" of the NFL regular season

then Mahomes wins the MVP. I understand the sentimentality argument but excitement for something new can be just as big of an emotion. People are going to happily vote for Mahomes if he can give them some big reason to do it. Either of those scenarios gets him the award.

11-05-2018, 11:46 AM
Msmith Veteran Join Date: Jan 2004 Casino cash: $8148035	2018 NFL midseason awards Interesting take in comparing Brees and Mahomes; "Let's work through these two together, since they stand apart for me. The most obvious difference is the touchdown total. Mahomes has 29 touchdown passes. Twenty-nine! Brees has 18. Andrew Luck has 23, and nobody else in the league tops 20. The second-year sensation Mahomes is throwing for touchdowns on 9.1 percent of his passes, the second-highest mark in the league behind Ryan Fitzpatrick. The only passer to hit 9 percent in a 500-attempt season is Aaron Rodgers in 2011. Tom Brady didn't do it in 2007. Dan Marino didn't do it in 1984. This is a big advantage for Mahomes. And then, when you start working through the rest of the categories, Brees picks up advantages, some significant. The veteran has thrown one interception on 279 pass attempts. Mahomes has thrown seven in 317 tries, although his pick on Sunday was essentially a Hail Mary after poor Chiefs clock management. Mahomes is completing 66.2 percent of his passes. Brees is completing 76.3 percent of his throws. Just as Mahomes is challenging the touchdown record, Brees is threatening to take the completion percentage record and jump it from 72.1 percent by more than 4 percentage points. Completions can be overrated, but 40.9 percent of Brees' completions go for first downs, which is well above the league average of 36.3 percent. Mahomes is averaging nearly a full yard more per pass than Brees, but a lot of that comes from his receivers' work on screens. Strip them out and Brees is completing 74.9 percent of his passes and averaging 8.7 yards per attempt. Mahomes is completing 61.9 percent of his non-screen passes while averaging ... 8.7 yards per attempt. Both marks are great. You don't need me to tell you Brees' is better. Of course, while both teams have excellent weapons, there's a reason I ranked the Chiefs' weapons as the scariest in football before the season. Brees' top two receivers are Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara. Pretty terrifying. Mahomes gets to work with Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt. Also scary. After that, though, Mahomes' next two guys up are Travis Kelce and Sammy Watkins. Brees is working with Benjamin Watson and either Ted Ginn Jr. or rookie Tre'Quan Smith, depending on when you're judging the arsenals. Brees has Mark Ingram to help in pass protection and a better offensive line given the injuries on the interior for the Chiefs, but Mahomes has more with which to work. I'm not exactly the QB wins type, but the Saints are 7-1 and the Chiefs are 8-1. The Saints' lone loss came in a game against the Bucs in which Brees put up 40 points and his defense allowed 48 points. The Chiefs' lone loss came in a game in which Mahomes scored 40 points and his defense allowed 43 points to the Patriots. The only thing I might mention is that Mahomes left a couple of would-be touchdowns on the table with bad throws in the first half. It would be foolish to say Mahomes played badly, but it also would be naive to pretend he couldn't have played better given the opportunities at hand. The case for Mahomes outside of the touchdowns isn't as obvious, at least to me. He has thrown 38 more passes than Brees, the product of not yet having his bye week. Mahomes offers far more with his legs than Brees, as the Texas Tech product has 144 rushing yards and two touchdowns on 25 carries once you remove those pesky kneel-downs from his totals. Brees, ceding touches in the running game to Taysom Hill, has turned nine carries into 34 yards, although he also has two scores on sneaks, which mitigates some of the gap between the two. At the end of the day, there just isn't much between these two. Brees has a passer rating of 120.6 and a Total QBR of 84.5. Mahomes has a passer rating of 116.7 and a Total QBR of 85.4. They're 1-2 in each category. Maybe I lean toward Brees because the sentimental, sappy side of me wants to see the 39-year-old Brees finally win league MVP before he retires. If you prefer Mahomes, I can't fault you. If Mahomes gets to 56 passing touchdowns and breaks the league record in his first full year as a starter, I'll join you on that side of the fence. For now, though, very narrowly, I lean toward Brees." Link:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...-rookies-plays
Posts: 2,080

11-05-2018, 09:50 PM	#46
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri Casino cash: $6771021	Brees would be better than giving it to Gurley over Mahomes. Gotta hope for a couple of bad games for Brees. __________________
Posts: 54,038

11-05-2018, 10:13 PM	#48
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri Casino cash: $6771021	David Carr https://youtu.be/YBztXSSqVTo __________________
Posts: 54,038

11-06-2018, 04:23 AM	#57
thegame214 Veteran Join Date: Jun 2017 Casino cash: $9780412	Mahomes gets num 1 seed he's MVP locked. Brees still has panthers twice, the reg season record will come into play unless Mahomes hits 50 TDs, then it's a lock. Brady won with 30 something lol
Posts: 1,473

11-06-2018, 08:07 AM	#60
Sannyasi Veteran Join Date: Jan 2010 Casino cash: $9963714	I think if either: -Mahomes breaks one of the big counting records, yards or touchdowns, or -the Chiefs finish 15-1, becoming the "story" of the NFL regular season then Mahomes wins the MVP. I understand the sentimentality argument but excitement for something new can be just as big of an emotion. People are going to happily vote for Mahomes if he can give them some big reason to do it. Either of those scenarios gets him the award.
Posts: 2,616