Chiefs Believe it or not, Veach isn’t don’t yet. - Page 6

Direckshun · 07-06-2020, 09:20 PM

So the rocky two years we’re looking at, cap wise, are 2020 and 2021.

But Mahomes just opened up everything by taking a $500m deal that’s still, somehow, a sweetheart deal for those two years, cap-wise.

We are basically at the cap right now assuming our draft picks swallow up the 6m in cap space we have post-Mahomes.

Jones’ deal, if he were extended, could open up about 10m in 2020. And we could have the cap space in 2021 if we do some smart finangling like effectively replace Fisher with Niang and/or extend Tyrann Matthieu and Travis Kelce. All sorts of options on the table there.

Of course, Jones being traded still makes the most sense, given the Chiefs apparent inaction towards him. That would net us 16m, and give us additional draft ammunition to replace Watkins or Jones or Hitchens or any of our starting corners in 2021/2022.

Of course, Jones could simply be traded for a player we could use, like Ngakuoe or Brandon Scherff + draft capital, both options would cost the team less than the Jones megadeal, which would allow us to sign Snacks, or some such player.

Or Jones could be extended and the defense could get further fortified if some free agent studs like Clowney bring their price down.

Give Veach some credit here: if your goal was to get a Jones deal by the deadline, or a well-valued trade for him to get some assets or players in return, then you needed to knock this massive domino down. And not only did Veach do that, he did it in such as way as it gives the team endless flexibility with Mahomes’ contract through at least 2027.

We ain’t done yet, folks. This is the golden era of Chiefs football.

Direckshun · 07-08-2020, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Where was the "reputable reporting" when it came to Mahomes contract?

There's been NO reporting on Chris Jones because there's been nothing to report, yet it doesn't stop you from constantly speculating.

There are so many head scratching ideas in this contradictory pair of sentences that it deserves it own post for dismantling.

Alright, so:

1a. The reporting on the contract situation surrounding Mahomes has no bearing on the contract situation surrounding Chris Jones.

1b. You seem to be implying there was no reputable reporting surrounding the Mahomes contract situation? NFLN reported the negotiations would begin after the draft (they did). The KC Star reported the talks had begun in earnest in May (they had). There was plenty of reporting, though none of it to my knowledge hit the incredible contract extension on the head. But, so it goes with highly sensitive negotiations behind closed doors.

1c. You seem to be implying that because there was no reputable reporting on the Mahomes contract ahead of time (there was), that we can't take a lack of Jones contract reporting too seriously. But even the best reporting isn't ironclad; it's intended to be used as a signpost for news followers to use in their own educated guesses.

1d. You know all of this! You literally cited reporting in this very thread on Clowney's contract offers from teams to help you draw conclusions about Clowney's future. Which is what normal humans do.

2a. There has been reporting on Jones. NFLN has reported the Chiefs have talked to him about contracts. NFLN and other sources have repeatedly reported that he has received no contract offers from us at any time. Louis Reddick said a couple days back that they're talking to Jones now. There has been some reporting that Covid19 kept us from making any negotiations with him -- which is reporting I don't buy, by the way (just to show that I don't take reporting mindlessly at face value).

2b. How do you know "there's nothing to report"? You literally told me we have no idea what's going on. There could be tons to report.

2c. You're of course saying there's nothing to report because you believe the reporting that we've seen (that you're now saying doesn't exist?): talks have been minimal, no contracts (at the very least prior to Pat's deal) have been offered. Jones is demanding $20m+ and the Chiefs probably want to keep him but they're struggling to square that circle.

2d. If you're arguing there's been nothing to report on Jones anyway, then you're agreeing with the initial premise I started with (that you had disagreed with) that there had been inaction with the Chiefs and Jones.

I think in your rush to keep hope alive and/or throw shade at me may have gotten your ideas all jumbled up, because these two sentences don't make a lot of logical sense, and they are factually incorrect.

Direckshun · 07-08-2020, 01:00 PM

Also, for the record, we gotta say Dorsey, so far, has been the far superior drafter to Veach. Veach's track record is smaller, but he did have the disastrous 2018 draft. And it's doubtful, due to Dorsey's incredible 2017 draft, that Veach can overtake him.

That's not throwing shade at Veach, by the way. There are few GMs that have had a hotter five years than the 2013-2017 drafts Dorsey trotted out. Those drafts are, by far, the biggest reason of several as to why we just won a Super Bowl.

Every one of Dorsey's first picks became Pro Bowlers and some of them became All Pros. Just for absolute starters. And while Veach rooted for it to happen, Dorsey was the trigger man on the trade up for Mahomes.

Respect where it's due. The guy was incredible in the draft. I'm actually pretty stunned he's not a GM right now, which may speak to how maddening he might be to work with.

Sassy Squatch · 07-08-2020, 01:10 PM

He doesn't have a job because he sounds like a massive **** to work for and lacks pretty much every skill that's needed to be a GM outside of being an excellent scout and acquiring talent. He'd be an excellent second fiddle to a top tier HC but his ego won't let that happen and he proved in Cleveland left to his own devices things don't exactly go smoothly.

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-08-2020, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Also, for the record, we gotta say Dorsey, so far, has been the far superior drafter to Veach. Veach's track record is smaller, but he did have the disastrous 2018 draft. And it's doubtful, due to Dorsey's incredible 2017 draft, that Veach can overtake him.

You're out of your freaking mind

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-08-2020, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think in your rush to keep hope alive and/or throw shade at me may have gotten your ideas all jumbled up, because these two sentences don't make a lot of logical sense, and they are factually incorrect.

JFC, this is a ridiculous post.

First off, the Chiefs didn't reveal anything about Mahomes deal. Sure, there were people speculating that a deal would get done (Duh!) but there was no concrete evidence of anything until the deal was announced.

Clowney has refused every offer to date, whether it's a $12 million dollar base salary from the Browns to the Seahawks offer of more than $17 million so there is very, very little chance that Clowney would sign with the Chiefs or any other team for $10 million, even if it's just for one season.

It was reported in the past week that the Chiefs have had NO discussions with Jones or his agent. So anything that you put out there is pure speculation, with none of it based in reality.

--------

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-rumors-...022408397.html

From June 8th:

The three-time Pro Bowl selection has turned down multiple free-agent contract offers worth at least $15 million per year this season, Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio reported Monday.

"My understanding is the Seahawks have been in the range of $15 million on a one-year deal for Jadeveon Clowney," Florio said on 106.7 The Fan's Chad Dukes vs. The World (h/t 247Sports.com). "The Seahawks have been led to believe that the Browns offered 18 (million), and he has yet to take that."

Sassy Squatch · 07-08-2020, 01:18 PM

As far as getting Mahomes here, that was a joint effort spearheaded by Veach and Steinberg.

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-08-2020, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

As far as getting Mahomes here, that was a joint effort spearheaded by Veach and Steinberg.

Dorsey never met with Mahomes, nor did he meet with the Mahomes family, nor did he ever visit Texas Tech nor did he ever met with Kliff Kingsbury.

Dorsey couldn't manage the salary cap and his drafts were average at the very best and awful at worst.

There are only three players left from the 2015 draft and two players (Kpassognon and Mahomes) left from the 2017 draft.

Kiimo · 07-08-2020, 01:25 PM

The fact that Dorsey is currently unemployed should tell you everything you need to know. The myth that Dorsey was the draft guru has been debunked many times over at this point.

RunKC · 07-08-2020, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

2018 isn't the greatest draft in Chiefs history, but even then time has shown that it wasn't the worst, either.

Derrick Nnadi is a pretty damn good player. He's started every single game as a pro, and he earned all of those starts by winning the job under two entirely different coaching staffs. Daly and Spags didn't owe Nnadi jack shit in 2019-- he had to earn that starting spot at NT, which he did.

We got a starter out of the draft, and we're going to get 4 complete seasons of cheap yet solid play out of him. No redshirt years.

You usually hope to get more out of that in any particular draft, and while it's true that Speaks, Watts, and O'Daniel could all get cut this offseason, it's more likely we'll get 2 of them to stick around and at least provide some depth (not sure about O'Daniel at this point).

In any case, it sure beats Pioli's first draft as GM.

Everybody always forgets Veach’s best move in 2018. Getting Charvarious Ward for a broken down Parker Ehinger was a huge steal. He’s not even getting $1 million a season.

Chris Harris Jr even said last week that he thinks Ward is one of the better young corners in the game.

RunKC · 07-08-2020, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Also, for the record, we gotta say Dorsey, so far, has been the far superior drafter to Veach. Veach's track record is smaller, but he did have the disastrous 2018 draft. And it's doubtful, due to Dorsey's incredible 2017 draft, that Veach can overtake him.

That's not throwing shade at Veach, by the way. There are few GMs that have had a hotter five years than the 2013-2017 drafts Dorsey trotted out. Those drafts are, by far, the biggest reason of several as to why we just won a Super Bowl.

Every one of Dorsey's first picks became Pro Bowlers and some of them became All Pros. Just for absolute starters. And while Veach rooted for it to happen, Dorsey was the trigger man on the trade up for Mahomes.

Respect where it's due. The guy was incredible in the draft. I'm actually pretty stunned he's not a GM right now, which may speak to how maddening he might be to work with.

Need more time. Speaks is Veach’s Eric Fisher, and Veach didn’t benefit from picking 1st overall, even in a weak class.

The 2019 draft is right there with 2017. In a redraft, there is no way in hell GM’s wouldn’t take Hardman and Thornhill in the first rd. Those 2 guys will be multi year pro bowlers. Saunders has also been great too.
Note-Veach swindled the Rams for Peters. That 2nd he got from them netted us Thornhill.

In terms of FA, it isn’t even close. Dorsey got an amazing FA in Schwartz, but Veach got Sammy, Landlord and then traded for Clark proving everybody wrong.

Coaching is the major factor here. Spags and his staff did such an excellent job with personnel and coaching. That truly put us over the top.

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-08-2020, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

In terms of FA, it isn’t even close. Dorsey got an amazing FA in Schwartz, but Veach got Sammy, Landlord and then traded for Clark proving everybody wrong.

Veach also traded Eric Murray for Emmanuel Ogbah, who excelled before his injury and by letting him walk in Free Agency, helped the Chiefs with 2021 draft compensation and their Comp Pick formula.

Dante84 · 07-08-2020, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Also, for the record, we gotta say Dorsey, so far, has been the far superior drafter to Veach. Veach's track record is smaller, but he did have the disastrous 2018 draft. And it's doubtful, due to Dorsey's incredible 2017 draft, that Veach can overtake him.

That's not throwing shade at Veach, by the way. There are few GMs that have had a hotter five years than the 2013-2017 drafts Dorsey trotted out. Those drafts are, by far, the biggest reason of several as to why we just won a Super Bowl.

Every one of Dorsey's first picks became Pro Bowlers and some of them became All Pros. Just for absolute starters. And while Veach rooted for it to happen, Dorsey was the trigger man on the trade up for Mahomes.

Respect where it's due. The guy was incredible in the draft. I'm actually pretty stunned he's not a GM right now, which may speak to how maddening he might be to work with.

Pretty sure that was pushed to Reid by Veach, from Reid up to Hunt mandated down to Dorsey, since Dorsey got the boot a few days later. Speculating, but I think Reid got his request up to Hunt.

Gotta remember that vindictive shit Dorsey pulled with Maclin getting cut by VM, seemingly to poke Reid in the eye to remind him who the GM was.

staylor26 · 07-08-2020, 02:35 PM

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-11-2020, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Thanks to reputable reporting, I do have some idea

You're a ****ing dipshit, Voyager. JFC. Just as I said earlier in this thread:

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2020/...-franchise-tag

Appearing on the network's flagship “SportsCenter” telecast on Saturday, ESPN's Jeremy Fowler said that the Kansas City Chiefs are talking with their defensive tackle Chris Jones.

“I’m told the Chiefs and Jones have begun talking,” said Fowler, “which is a big victory because it’s been quiet for months on that front; they’ve really had no communication. They’ve at least started negotiating. The Chiefs got the Patrick Mahomes deal done. They’d like to move on to Jones, who is considered a top-three defensive tackle, but that’s going to cost them well over $20 million. It’s just unclear how far they’re willing to go at this point, but they want to keep one of their best players.”

Direckshun · 07-11-2020, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You're a ****ing dipshit, Voyager. JFC.

Am... I missing something here?

This is what I said in the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Of course, Jones being traded still makes the most sense, given the Chiefs apparent inaction towards him.

To which you reply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You have no idea where the Chiefs are with the Chris Jones negotiations.

I respond:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Thanks to reputable reporting, I do have some idea.

Then you post reputable reporting that there's been relative inaction regarding Chris Jones for months leading up to the Mahomes deal, and say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You're a ****ing dipshit, Voyager. JFC.

I mean, what the hell. What am I missing.

07-06-2020, 09:20 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	Believe it or not, Veach isn’t don’t yet. So the rocky two years we’re looking at, cap wise, are 2020 and 2021. But Mahomes just opened up everything by taking a $500m deal that’s still, somehow, a sweetheart deal for those two years, cap-wise. We are basically at the cap right now assuming our draft picks swallow up the 6m in cap space we have post-Mahomes. Jones’ deal, if he were extended, could open up about 10m in 2020. And we could have the cap space in 2021 if we do some smart finangling like effectively replace Fisher with Niang and/or extend Tyrann Matthieu and Travis Kelce. All sorts of options on the table there. Of course, Jones being traded still makes the most sense, given the Chiefs apparent inaction towards him. That would net us 16m, and give us additional draft ammunition to replace Watkins or Jones or Hitchens or any of our starting corners in 2021/2022. Of course, Jones could simply be traded for a player we could use, like Ngakuoe or Brandon Scherff + draft capital, both options would cost the team less than the Jones megadeal, which would allow us to sign Snacks, or some such player. Or Jones could be extended and the defense could get further fortified if some free agent studs like Clowney bring their price down. Give Veach some credit here: if your goal was to get a Jones deal by the deadline, or a well-valued trade for him to get some assets or players in return, then you needed to knock this massive domino down. And not only did Veach do that, he did it in such as way as it gives the team endless flexibility with Mahomes’ contract through at least 2027. We ain’t done yet, folks. This is the golden era of Chiefs football.
Posts: 59,693

07-08-2020, 01:00 PM	#77
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	Also, for the record, we gotta say Dorsey, so far, has been the far superior drafter to Veach. Veach's track record is smaller, but he did have the disastrous 2018 draft. And it's doubtful, due to Dorsey's incredible 2017 draft, that Veach can overtake him. That's not throwing shade at Veach, by the way. There are few GMs that have had a hotter five years than the 2013-2017 drafts Dorsey trotted out. Those drafts are, by far, the biggest reason of several as to why we just won a Super Bowl. Every one of Dorsey's first picks became Pro Bowlers and some of them became All Pros. Just for absolute starters. And while Veach rooted for it to happen, Dorsey was the trigger man on the trade up for Mahomes. Respect where it's due. The guy was incredible in the draft. I'm actually pretty stunned he's not a GM right now, which may speak to how maddening he might be to work with.
Posts: 59,693

07-08-2020, 01:10 PM	#78
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $-1380345	He doesn't have a job because he sounds like a massive **** to work for and lacks pretty much every skill that's needed to be a GM outside of being an excellent scout and acquiring talent. He'd be an excellent second fiddle to a top tier HC but his ego won't let that happen and he proved in Cleveland left to his own devices things don't exactly go smoothly.
Posts: 42,083

07-08-2020, 01:18 PM	#81
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $-1380345	As far as getting Mahomes here, that was a joint effort spearheaded by Veach and Steinberg.
Posts: 42,083

07-08-2020, 01:25 PM	#83
Kiimo MVP Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Studio City, CA Casino cash: $1878742	The fact that Dorsey is currently unemployed should tell you everything you need to know. The myth that Dorsey was the draft guru has been debunked many times over at this point.
Posts: 13,929

07-08-2020, 02:35 PM	#88
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-2050960
Posts: 52,905