Is America a Christian nation?

[JimNasium]

Good read

A Nation of Christians, Not a Christian Nation

Is America a "Christian nation?" The question is not as simple as might first appear. Better to say that this is a nation whose citzens are overwhelmingly Christian. This is a distinction with a difference.

Is America a "Christian nation?" The question is not as simple as might first appear. Some Christians imagine a version of history in which the republic was established as a Christian nation in something like a constitutional sense. An honest look at the historical record indicates that this was not the case. Christianity has never been an established religion in any official sense at the national level. The establishment clause of the First Amendment forbids a national church.

Yet, even at the time of the ratification of the Constitution, some states still had established churches. Congregationalism was the established church of Connecticut until 1818. Furthermore, several of the colonies and settlements had been established with explicitly Christian identities.

The founders were themselves a mixture of devoted Christians, apparent Deists, and some freethinkers. An honest look indicates that some, like Jefferson, were fairly radical in their skepticism. Others, like Franklin, were eccentrics of one sort or another. Washington was probably a committed Christian marked by some reticence to speak of his personal beliefs. Others included explicitly evangelical Christians.

Nevertheless, the worldview shared by the founders and the colonists was explicitly and unquestionably Christian. The plausibility structures that made the world sensible to Americans -- the intellectual principles and moral habits that guided their actions -- were clearly based in the Christian tradition and the Bible. In fact, this truth was stated clearly, openly, and honestly by American presidents, political leaders, jurists, and others until recent decades.

America is not a Christian nation by constitution or charter. There has never been a time when all Americans were Christians or that Christian identity could be assumed as evangelical.

But, American citizens are overwhelmingly Christian. This has always been so, and is so now. This is why G. K. Chesterton would refer to America as the "nation with the soul of a church." The American experiment in religious liberty has produced a nation that, unlike most of Europe, has resisted complete secularization.

The vast majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians. This simple fact points to the "Christian" character of the nation. America is not Christian by constitutional provision or creedal affirmation -- but its people are overwhelmingly Christian by self-affirmation. Thoughtful evangelicals will not overestimate the convictional character of this self-identification. Secularists ought not to overestimate its superficiality.

It is manifest nonsense to act as if the vast majority of Americans do not share a common Christian identification. This is certainly apparent at Christmas, when most Americans celebrate a specifically Christian holiday. When such an overwhelming majority of citizens celebrate a common holiday, the presence of imagery and symbolism does indeed saturate the country. It could not be otherwise.

The allergic reaction of some cannot nullify the rights of the many. As America recognizes and respects the diversity of the beliefs of its citizens, we should expect to see more symbolism representing different religions rather than less. Christians should not be offended by the public display of the Menorah at Hanukkah or the display of other religious symbols at other occasions. Religious liberty means liberty for all.

Should America be a Christian nation? No. Not in a constitutional or creedal sense. But, as a believer in Jesus Christ, my hope is that every American would come to a saving knowledge of Christ. My hope could be nothing less. But that would mean a nation of Christians, not a Christian nation.

According to the Bible, the Kingdom of God will include believers in Christ from every tongue and tribe and people and nation. There will be no American section in Heaven. Faith does not come to nations, but to individuals. Yet, nations are shaped by the faith and worldview of their citizens.

Is America a Christian nation? No. But it is a nation with a majority of its citizens identifying themselves as Christians. This is a distinction with a difference.

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Believer

America isnt mentioned in the Bible.

Nobody is saying it is.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by SB06CHARGERS

WE USED TO BE UNTIL THE LIBERALS STARTED CHIPPING AWAY

NO WE NEVER WERE YOU'RE A DUMBASS

[Believer]

Originally Posted by (Zach)

Nobody is saying it is.

Bingo! this is what set you off. I knew it wasnt a need for me to talk football.

was that so hard?

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Believer

Bingo! this is what set you off. I knew it wasnt a need for me to talk football.

was that so hard?

Not at all,this post was made after we began our conversation in DC.

This doesn't change that you went on the defense in this post about a point that was never made. Pretty interesting IMO.

[Believer]

Originally Posted by (Zach)

Not at all,this post was made after we began our conversation in DC.

This doesn't change that you went on the defense in this post about a point that was never made. Pretty interesting IMO.

on the contrary, I made my own point about how so many Americans get wrapped up in this idea that somehow this country is special to God.

enjoy your headgames. I regret being diverted by this. Have a good evening checking up on other people's posting patterns.

Im not particularly fond of you right now but God loves you.

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Believer

on the contrary, I made my own point about how so many Americans get wrapped up in this idea that somehow this country is special to God.

enjoy your headgames. I regret being diverted by this. Have a good evening checking up on other people's posting patterns.

Im not particularly fond of you right now but God loves you.

Enjoy PulpitPlanet.com

[HolyHandgernade]

I've stated before there is a difference between the cultural makeup of the nation and the social structure of the nation which is too often confused as the same thing. To that point, I thought it was a good article. There were some things I could nit pick, kowever:

Originally Posted by JimNasium

The establishment clause of the First Amendment forbids a national church.

That is not in the establishment clause, it can be included within the context of the establishment clause, but nowhere does it specifically and exclusively designate a national church. It says religion is not to be established, not a religion or a national church or a state religion, but religion in general. One cannot substitute the phrase a national church for religion in the establishment clause and still make the First Ammendment make grammatical sense. How does one freely express a national church if they just prohibited themselves from establishing one?

Originally Posted by JimNasium

Washington was probably a committed Christian marked by some reticence to speak of his personal beliefs.

Why is this probable? Washington never took communion although he was always respectful towards the established Church of Virginia. One had to be a vestryman of the Church if one wanted to have a social and political stake, the position did not confer an overly religious nature. This is an assumption most Christians hope is true because of the demi-god status Washington holds for the nation.

Originally Posted by JimNasium

Nevertheless, the worldview shared by the founders and the colonists was explicitly and unquestionably Christian. The plausibility structures that made the world sensible to Americans -- the intellectual principles and moral habits that guided their actions -- were clearly based in the Christian tradition and the Bible. In fact, this truth was stated clearly, openly, and honestly by American presidents, political leaders, jurists, and others until recent decades.

Christianity was indeed the cultural background from which most came, but the author should be careful in taking such a liberty. It was in large part due to the horrors of Christianity and its close association with European governments that spurred a sectarian constitutional government. The last line is just weird, I can't think of one President who did not use his religious affiliation, to one degree or another, to build sentiment for his candidacy. It sounds like romaticism to me. According to most historians, the majority of the young nation's population did not attend church or consider themselves overly religious. I think it ought to be a warning when a public official uses his religion to gain political sympathy. Isn't that exactly the kind of thing Jesus taught against saying we should pray to God in private and not use it as a means of popularity?

Originally Posted by JimNasium

This is certainly apparent at Christmas, when most Americans celebrate a specifically Christian holiday.

I always cringe at this argument because it attempts to take away celebrating Christmas from us non-Christians. The only thing inherantly and originally Christian about Christmas is the name itself. Tree trimming, hanging greens, feasting, and gift giving were all winter solctice celebrations long before the Christian era assumed them under the name of Christmas. Even the supposed birthdate of Jesus, Dec. 25th, was used by many various god-men before being ascribed to Jesus. I think any holiday that promotes "peace on earth and goodwill towards men" ought to be celebrated and be able to be celebrated by all men, not just Christians. So when this gets pointed out they wonder why people get wrankled about wishing someone a "Merry Christmas" is because Christians try to take the holiday as all their own, as if they invented it rather than being the latest popular cultural way of expressing it. I wish lots of people a Merry Christmas, but my wish has nothing to do with Christianity in my mind, nor do I plan on attending a Christ's Mass.

I understand the author's point, but most of the dispute isn't among citizens, its between sides concerning religion mixed with government, not culture. Too many people get confused on this issue, like the recent one with the airport. An airport is not a government facility, it should be able to display whatever the administration of the airport want to display. If it was a courthouse, then there is a dispute on Constitutional grounds, but not an airport. So the radicals on the secular side try to overextend the governmental self prohibition while the sectarian radicals attempt to introduce religion in governmental venues. That's why there is conflict. As a citizen, I've never been offended by anyone who wishes me good tidings, no matter what religious or secular sense they want to wrap it in.

-HH

[Imon Yourside]

Originally Posted by Believer

America isnt mentioned in the Bible. Israel is.
While all Nations are God's, its Israel that is the apple of his eye. Christians who know their Bible understand this.

Oh America is in the Bible, The Lion(Britain), The Bear(Russia), The Leopard(Nazi Germany) and Diverse fourth beast (guess who). Also noted that the Lion Plucked forth Eagles wings coincidence? methinks not. Israel is SPIRITUAL Israel not the country born in 1947.

[StcChief]

Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN

Oh America is in the Bible, The Lion(Britain), The Bear(Russia), The Leopard(Nazi Germany) and Diverse fourth beast (guess who). Also noted that the Lion Plucked forth Eagles wings coincidence? methinks not. Israel is SPIRITUAL Israel not the country born in 1947.

Yep.

And the Muslim horde attacking Isreal from the North is yet to come.

[KC-TBB]

Is Thanksgiving (a day set aside by Geo. Washington to give thanks to GOD) a violation to you 'seperation of church and state' types?
How about Christmas? I am a Govt. Employee and get both days off...hmmmmmmm

[HolyHandgernade]

Originally Posted by KC-TBB

Is Thanksgiving (a day set aside by Geo. Washington to give thanks to GOD) a violation to you 'seperation of church and state' types?
How about Christmas? I am a Govt. Employee and get both days off...hmmmmmmm

The Thanksgiving we celebrate annually today came from the Lincoln in response to the toll of the Civil War, not Washington. There were three or four earlier "days of thanksgiving" proclaimed by various Presidents, but such proclomations do not reference a specific God, nor that it had to be observed. It should be noted that Lincoln was criticized because he was believed not to be a Christian and it was his son-in-law who penned the words to the Thanksgiving Proclomation. So, Thanksgiving is not specifically religious, one can give thanks or be grateful without a deity.

Because Christianity was the religion of the majority of the culture, most government employees would return home for the Christmas season. There was no mass transportation at the time and not enough members to hold session anyway. So the holiday arose out of necssity, not because the Government adopted Christianity.

I'm a government employee too.

-HH

[burt]

Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN

Oh America is in the Bible, The Lion(Britain), The Bear(Russia), The Leopard(Nazi Germany) and Diverse fourth beast (guess who). Also noted that the Lion Plucked forth Eagles wings coincidence?

Asumption and speculation.