Chiefs Players: Don't Blame Herm

[KCJohnny]

Chiefs Players: Don't Blame Herm

• Among the players lobbying for Herm Edwards’ retention as Chiefs coach was QB Tyler Thigpen, whom Edwards has identified as his anticipated starter in 2009 should he be around to make that decision.

“I hope we’re not playing for his job,” said Thigpen, who saw the Chiefs build the “Pistol” offense around his spread-quarterback abilities at midseason.

“We’ve had some tough ones this year, but I don’t think his job should be in jeopardy,” Thigpen added. “He’s done what he should have done this year. Don’t blame him at all. If anyone wants to say that, come take it up with me.”

• Added Pro Bowl G Brian Waters, who was selected to his fourth Pro Bowl last week:

“Herm, without a shadow of a doubt, is the most resilient person in this organization. He understands the cards he was dealt when he got here (in 2006), and he understands what he has to deal with this season.

“If anybody leads by example, it’s him. He comes to work every day with the same energy, and he has not let this situation affect him one way or another. I don’t know of many coaches that could hold it together through the things we’ve had to go through for the past three years. I think a lot of coaches in that situation would be looking for the door.”

Reading the tea leaves, if Edwards is retained, Thiggy could be his guy. With Quinn Gray as a similarly styled athletic shotgun QB, the mold could be set for Pistol II. Chan Gailey is somehow omitted from the article, the true architect of the KC Pistol. I am wondering if Gailey's style of offense is ultimately welcome in Herm's scheme of maneuver. The low TOP figures (a mere 25 minutes last Sunday) and low rushing attempts (just 15 carries for RBs) are not BucBall.

I think that if Herm is retained (as some players seem to support) that Gailey should be given a blank check and maybe even some more weapons. Clearly, the emerging strength of the team is it's offense. Makes you wonder what a new GM/HC tandem might do with the Chiefs' roster...

[Hammock Parties]

On the flip side of the equation, when you have bums like Tamba Hali questioning the coaches, something is wrong.

Brian Waters also never says anything negative about the organization.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

So there's no question he has gone for it more, because we only have won 2 games..... but we should go for it more because we are the 2nd worst team in the NFL?

What I am saying is we suck so Herm choosing not to be so conservative doesn't matter because there is nothing on the line.

I guarantee you if this team was fighting for a playoff spot Herm would go back into ultra-conservative mode and screw this team just like he did early in the season when he decided to put the game in the D's hands.

Does that make sense?

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

And anyone that expected more than 3 wins from a team that just traded its best player and is playing 17 rookies was fooling themselves.

I guess the owner was fooling himself then because he is the one that said we need to be competing for a playoff spot.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

For the record, I won't blame Herm. He was put in a no-win situation. Carl gave him the job, and the players. Herm chose to accept the job as it was presented.

My problem with Herm is I just don't think he's a good NFL head coach. Also, I want the new GM to name his own guy. We don't need to keep anything from this good ol' boy network that Carl built around him,to suit the players good feelings.

If Herm is lost as collateral damage, so be it.

Thank you, William. I know you've been tough on Herm, and this is exactly the kind of rational response I was looking for. It's amazing that so few people can even give that small amount of understanding.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

What I am saying is we suck so Herm choosing not to be so conservative doesn't matter because there is nothing on the line.

I guarantee you if this team was fighting for a playoff spot Herm would go back into ultra-conservative mode and screw this team just like he did early in the season when he decided to put the game in the D's hands.

Does that make sense?

Makes sense except for the part where you speak for what someone else might do...

But there is no rule anywhere that says you have to play differently when the odds are against you. Just because we're out of the playoffs doesn't mean we have to play like nothing matters.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I guess the owner was fooling himself then because he is the one that said we need to be competing for a playoff spot.

Surely you didn't think that with the roster we had that this was possible.

This was not a good roster. And most of that blame can be placed at the feet of Carl Peterson. Yes, the Chiefs have had three drafts between 2006-2008 to resolve that problem. But #1 - given reports of the power struggle in KC, it sounds like Peterson was overruling Herm on a lot of personnel decisions; and #2 - It is a huge expectation to expect a coach to completely turn around a team with only 3 years of draft picks (2 of those picks being #20 or lower) and no elite free agent acquisitions.

This is the absolute definition of trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Makes sense except for the part where you speak for what someone else might do...

But there is no rule anywhere that says you have to play differently when the odds are against you. Just because we're out of the playoffs doesn't mean we have to play like nothing matters.

You honestly believe that if the Chiefs were competing for a playoff spot Herm wouldn't go back into his conservative shell?

You and I both know he would because that is just who he is.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Surely you didn't think that with the roster we had that this was possible.

This was not a good roster. And most of that blame can be placed at the feet of Carl Peterson. Yes, the Chiefs have had three drafts between 2006-2008 to resolve that problem. But #1 - given reports of the power struggle in KC, it sounds like Peterson was overruling Herm on a lot of personnel decisions; and #2 - It is a huge expectation to expect a coach to completely turn around a team with only 3 years of draft picks (2 of those picks being #20 or lower) and no elite free agent acquisitions.

This is the absolute definition of trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

I didn't but the owner did and he is the one that made the statement.

Go back and read what he said earlier this year. He specifically said if this team doesn't compete for a playoff spot then there would be changes coming. So far he is sticking to his word.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Surely you didn't think that with the roster we had that this was possible.

This was not a good roster. And most of that blame can be placed at the feet of Carl Peterson. Yes, the Chiefs have had three drafts between 2006-2008 to resolve that problem. But #1 - given reports of the power struggle in KC, it sounds like Peterson was overruling Herm on a lot of personnel decisions; and #2 - It is a huge expectation to expect a coach to completely turn around a team with only 3 years of draft picks (2 of those picks being #20 or lower) and no elite free agent acquisitions.

This is the absolute definition of trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

The bull shitter makes chicken shit

[Fish]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

You honestly believe that if the Chiefs were competing for a playoff spot Herm wouldn't go back into his conservative shell?

You and I both know he would because that is just who he is.

I don't agree with that idea at all. He's not going to change what they're doing because they're having success with it. If the offense is being productive, he's not going to change the offensive philosophy simply because "that is just who he is". Herm is dumb, but he's not that dumb.... If that were the case, then he never would have tried something different in the first place. He wouldn't have let Chan run the spread at all if he were indeed as stubborn as you say. He would have went down in flames clinging to over-conservative offense with a team that couldn't run it. Most Herm critics said he'd never run anything but the R2P2 offense, and they've been proven wrong.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

The bull shitter makes chicken shit

This isn't about his public persona. This isn't about his ability to coach. We know that we don't like those things and I can't argue with anyone about those points.

This is the point about a rampant argument that Herm decimated this team and has done nothing to help this team rebuild. And there is too much indisputable evidence that he was handed a lemon and given very few resources to doing it and, from the sound of it, was held back by his GM from doing the things he needed to do.

There is a lot of good reason to hate and blame Herm Edwards. But the extent of the blame he gets for personnel problems ignores the huge pile of evidence that Peterson had a HUGE hand in it.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

I don't agree with that idea at all. He's not going to change what they're doing because they're having success with it. If the offense is being productive, he's not going to change the offensive philosophy simply because "that is just who he is". Herm is dumb, but he's not that dumb.... If that were the case, then he never would have tried something different in the first place. He wouldn't have let Chan run the spread at all if he were indeed as stubborn as you say. He would have went down in flames clinging to over-conservative offense with a team that couldn't run it. Most Herm critics said he'd never run anything but the R2P2 offense, and they've been proven wrong.

You could make the case that at the point that Tyler became the full-time starter the season was lost. They were 1-5 going to NY to play the Jets so they really had nothing to lose by changing it up.

If you look at how they ran the offense prior to the Jets game they ran R2P2.

But if anyone was going to get credit I would give it to Chan because this has his fingerprints all over it. When he was in Pittsburgh he did alot of different things to help Kordell.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Claythan

On the flip side of the equation, when you have bums like Tamba Hali questioning the coaches, something is wrong.

Brian Waters also never says anything negative about the organization.

I won't defend the coaching staff at all but Tamba Hali is a freakin turd. He should question his own talent and effort not the coaching staff. Yes they played him out of position but you would think that a first round draft pick's pure talent alone would keep him from completely disappearing for entire games.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

You could make the case that at the point that Tyler became the full-time starter the season was lost. They were 1-5 going to NY to play the Jets so they really had nothing to lose by changing it up.

If you look at how they ran the offense prior to the Jets game they ran R2P2.

But if anyone was going to get credit I would give it to Chan because this has his fingerprints all over it. When he was in Pittsburgh he did alot of different things to help Kordell.

At the same time, his offensive approach was similar to Herm's R2P2. He always had a 1000+ yard rusher, but few QBs with more than 3,500 yards. Even Aikman.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

You could make the case that at the point that Tyler became the full-time starter the season was lost. They were 1-5 going to NY to play the Jets so they really had nothing to lose by changing it up.

If you look at how they ran the offense prior to the Jets game they ran R2P2.

But if anyone was going to get credit I would give it to Chan because this has his fingerprints all over it. When he was in Pittsburgh he did alot of different things to help Kordell.

They changed the offense because it wasn't working. Which still doesn't give any credence to your idea that they would change it back in spite of it's success.

And it doesn't matter when you think the season was lost. I strongly disagree that the team shared that idea. Regardless, that still doesn't change the fact that they changed from something that wasn't working, to something that works much much better. The head coach isn't going to switch back to a failed offense because he hates TDs. You can still hate Herm, but concentrate on things he's actually done instead of what your hatred tells you he might do........