Like Old Times

[KChiefs1]

http://missouri.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=910207

Gabe DeArmond
PowerMizzou.com Publisher

There are a million possible punchlines. Ask a Missouri fan, "Why do you hate Kansas?" and there is really no limit to the number of responses you're going to get. But, if you get down to it, there's really only one answer: You hate them because they're good. Really good. Pretty much always have been, and as much as you hate to hear it, probably pretty much always will be.

Yeah, I know that's a terrible way to start off a commentary on a Missouri fan site. Frankly, 75% of you probably quit reading already. But I promise you there's a method to my madness. See, when I ask why you hate Kansas, and when you answer, you know I'm talking about basketball. Kansas football? Until the last two years, who's ever hated them? I mean, you hate them because it says KU on the helmet, and there is that whole thing about the mascot being a made up bird, but honestly, you don't really hate Kansas football that much. Even when Missouri was awful—and I mean one or two wins a year awful—the Tigers were pretty competitive with Kansas.

Not as much in basketball. Anyone who watches college hoops knows you only have to name five or six schools--and if I'm being honest, probably fewer than that--on the "Greatest Programs of all time" list before you get to the Beaks.

So anyway, I've now spent three paragraphs buttering up the thing most of you hate more than anything in the world. Why did I do it? Because on Monday night, things are once again going to be right with the world.

To explain, I grew up in Kansas City, the dead solid center of Kansas vs. Missouri. You didn't like them both. Or if you did, you didn't know one damn thing about sports, or really, about life in general. I grew up there in the 1980's. Kansas made a couple of Final Fours that decade, they (or so I have been told, I seem to have blocked it out of my memory) won a national title (supposedly in my home town). You know, they were good. Like I said, always have been.

But the thing is, when I was growing up, so was Missouri. There was the 1989 season when the Tigers and Jayhawks batted No. 1 back and forth between themselves in the Oklahoma Sooners in an all-Big Eight game of keepaway. There was Derrick Chievous and then Doug Smith and then Anthony Peeler. There was 1994 with the unbeaten conference season. That was my senior year in high school.

And through all that, there was the Border War. Every game then was big. But none were as big as the two games a year against Kansas. I remember Anthony Peeler dropping 40-plus in a loss. I remember Smith leading the way in a No. 1 vs No. 2 showdown on ESPN that will very likely be replayed at sometime during the day on the Ocho or one of ESPN's other "family of network" stations. I remember Mark Randall and Kevin Pritchard and Pekka Markinnen (I don't think I spelled his name right but I really don't care) and Adonis Jordan and Alonzo Jamison and Jerod Haase and 47 other basketball players that cast their lot with the Evil Empire. Man, people got amped for those games.

Then we went through what I'll call the "Upset Era." In Norm Stewart's last few years, the years I was in college at Mizzou, the Tigers really weren't very good. They had teams led by guys like Tyron Lee and Jeff Hafer and L. Dee Murdock. They played hard, but they really weren't that good. But for one game a year, man they were tough. Four times the Jayhawks came to Columbia ranked in the nation's top three in my college career. Three times, they left losers to the unranked Tigers. There was Corey Tate from the free throw line, there was double overtime for the only regular season loss for Pollard and Pierce and Vaughn and LaFrentz (I still think it was the best Kansas team I ever saw). You know, Missouri wasn't really good, but they won that game.

And since then, well, there hasn't been much. Quin Snyder split his first four games with Kansas. Since then, the Tigers have lost 14 of the 19 times they've played. Mike Anderson hasn't beaten KU. Missouri mostly has been mired in seasons so poor that even beating Kansas didn't give fans anything but a momentary respite from the abyss that was now their program.

But as you wake up and read this, all is right with the college basketball world in these parts. The Tigers and the Jayhawks are both ranked (or at least they will be by tipoff). That's the first time that has happened since February 3rd, 2003. They're both almost certainly going to play in the NCAA tournament. And this game on Monday night, it means something. It could solidify the Jayhawks as the only real threat to Oklahoma. It could put the Tigers in a sudden three-way discussion for the league championship. It gives somebody the upper hand when it comes to a seed in the Big 12 tournament and the NCAA tournament. It's on Big Monday. And it's freaking Kansas.

There's a generation or two of students at Missouri who don't know what this is like. This is the biggest game they've ever seen. And while that's great, it's also kind of sad. See, this game used to happen twice a year when I was growing up. Kansas, they were always good. But when I became a fan, so was Missouri. Monday night would have been just another game back then. Not now. Hasn't been that way for a while. This isn't Big Monday. This is Show-the-Country-Your-Program-is-Back Monday. At least to Mizzou fans.

But more simply, what this is, is the way things should be. It's Ryan Robertson being bombarded with boos. It's the Antlers in dresses. It's Norm and Roy and Dooling's (non) charging foul and Tate's jumper and the best rivalry in this part of the country. And it's back, folks. Enjoy it. This is how it was in the good old days. Let's hope it stays this way for a while.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by doomy3

This is hilarious. What's sad is not that "this generation doesn't know what this feels like," but that this is MU's National Championship game. KU plays for the real ones.

And to say that MU and KU were anywhere near equal in basketball at any point in history like this article makes it sound is absolutely hysterical.

I take it you're like 12 years old.

From 1980 up until the Big 12 conference started in 1996, which is the era Gabe is referring to in this piece, Missouri had 7 conference championships, Kansas had 6, and Oklahoma had 4. For all practical purposes, those three teams WERE Big 8 basketball.

Many young ku fans have been a bit spoiled by the huge success Self's teams have had in recent years and think that's just how it always has been, but old time ku fans know that's not the case (even if they might not admit it now).

Thanks for reminding me why I hate ku fans.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

as many times as you want my friend.

OK.

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Grew up in KC metro area where it's pretty much 50-50 KU MU. Played bball most of my life studying the KU transition offense, went to the KU Team camps, met great KU legends, love Roy Williams as a coach, the history.....etc Whats there not to like about KU bball with the exeception of Sasha Kaun?

Now, MU football, I've liked since I really started to watch college football. I actually got into pro football long before I got into college football. Never really cared for KU football, but then again never really hated it either.

However I never really took in the whole KU MU rivalry outside of just bball. I will not root for MU basketball and it all starts with my hatred towards Norm Stewart, the Marty Schottenheimer of the NCAA, never could advance to a final four in one million years of coaching. He's the best mediocre coach in NCAA history. That's just how I grew up.

Then a decision was made to go to MU for school because it was the better school, better town, period. With the exception of the Phog, I absolutely hate the KU campus, and downtown Lawrence has nothing on downtown Columbia.

Hey Ive gotten a lot of shit for being a KU bball fan going to MU. still isn't gonna change who I root for though. When it comes to NCAA bball, I bleed crimson and blue.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...9&postcount=51

[Mosbonian]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

You're ****in reeruned.

Could you maybe use a different word....

mmaddog
*******

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

I take it you're like 12 years old.

From 1980 up until the Big 12 conference started in 1996, which is the era Gabe is referring to in this piece, Missouri had 7 conference championships, Kansas had 6, and Oklahoma had 4. For all practical purposes, those three teams WERE Big 8 basketball.

Many young ku fans have been a bit spoiled by the huge success Self's teams have had in recent years and think that's just how it always has been, but old time ku fans know that's not the case (even if they might not admit it now).

Thanks for reminding me why I hate ku fans.

Actually I am much older than that. I didn't realize existence didn't begin until 1980, as I was referring to the rivalry as a whole. Congrats on that decade though!!

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by kcpasco

Basketball?

Is that the game played indoor with a round ball?

Ah, now THAT sounds more like an MU fan!!

[Mosbonian]

Originally Posted by kcpasco

Basketball?

Is that the game played indoor with a round ball?

No...that's indoor soccer...

mmaddog
*******

[kcpasco]

Originally Posted by doomy3

Ah, now THAT sounds more like an MU fan!!

Sorry

MU could beat KU by 30 tommorrow or KU could beat MU by 30

And I still wouldn't care either way

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by doomy3

Actually I am much older than that. I didn't realize existence didn't begin until 1980, as I was referring to the rivalry as a whole. Congrats on that decade though!!

So is this your roundabout way of admitting this statement:

And to say that MU and KU were anywhere near equal in basketball at any point in history like this article makes it sound is absolutely hysterical.

was completely wrong?

Gotcha.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

So is this your roundabout way of admitting this statement:



was completely wrong?

Gotcha.

No, that statement is completely correct.

You think that anyone in the world looked at KU and MU on the same level in basketball because of those years, even during those years?

That's like saying that because Gonzaga has had more success than Indiana for the last few years that anyone in the world looks at them as anywhere near the same level.

[kcpasco]

Kinda like a Royals fan trying to put them on the same level as the Cardinals when it comes to history

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by doomy3

No, that statement is completely correct.

You think that anyone in the world looked at KU and MU on the same level in basketball because of those years, even during those years?

That's like saying that because Gonzaga has had more success than Indiana for the last few years that anyone in the world looks at them as anywhere near the same level.

Of course they did. You act like KU was seen as the Wooden UCLA teams during at that time. KU had one legit championship, and that was during the 50's.

No one outside of Lawrence saw you as some monster program; a good program, yes, but hardly as dominant as you seem to think you were.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Of course they did. You act like KU was seen as the Wooden UCLA teams during at that time. KU had one legit championship, and that was during the 50's.

No one outside of Lawrence saw you as some monster program; a good program, yes, but hardly as dominant as you seem to think you were.

Oh, so it is only since 1996 that KU has moved up into the upper echelon of college basketball programs. Gotcha. It's crazy to think that only in the last 12 years that KU has gone from being "a good program" into being one of the universally believed top 5 programs in college basketball history.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by doomy3

Oh, so it is only since 1996 that KU has moved up into the upper echelon of college basketball programs. Gotcha. It's crazy to think that only in the last 12 years that KU has gone from being "a good program" into being one of the universally believed top 5 programs in college basketball history.

Honestly, do you think you're going to get a fair shake for KU from a Mizzou fan? Pointless argument.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by doomy3

That I will agree with. I thought it felt like the article was trying to make it seem like in the good old days, back when KU and MU were equals at basketball...

It's never been like that. Probably never will be.

That's what I thought. Yes, Mizzou has won a few games but they are on the short end of a 166-93 series. Not close. Mizzou won't catch up in my lifetime.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by doomy3

Oh, so it is only since 1996 that KU has moved up into the upper echelon of college basketball programs. Gotcha. It's crazy to think that only in the last 12 years that KU has gone from being "a good program" into being one of the universally believed top 5 programs in college basketball history.

Do programs stay in the "upper echelon" forever once they make it? Is Navy still a top tier football program in your mind? What about Nebraska?

KU is just like many programs - you have peaks and valleys. You are at a peak right now thanks to Self. Enjoy it, but don't act like you've been this good for decades and that you've always been better than Mizzou, because it makes you look like an absolute moron.