To the Herm haters.

[kcbubb]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The Chiefs ****ed up 10 years of drafts before Herm Edwards came in, leaving Herm Edwards no homegrown talent under the age of 30

The Chiefs ****ed up 5 years of free agency under Vermeil, leaving Herm with a bunch of expensive players who played like shit

Herm Edwards told his GM that the team needed to be hit with a wrecking ball and rebuilt from the ground up. The GM refused and instead kept a bunch of shitty, old veterans on the roster and even signed crappy stopgaps like Damion McIntosh and Napoleon Harris in an effort to "win now."

While this is debatable, I would still argue that Herm Edwards was forced to keep Solari and Gun on board because the GM had a loyalty issue


So you tell me how any coach given a team with primarily 30+ year old players, no young players in the program, and a GM who refused to admit that the team needed to be rebuilt has any chance at winning. Herm should have been allowed to rebuild immediately. He should have been given more power to choose his own coordinators. He shouldn't have been forced to start an old stopgap veteran QB who was there to milk a few wins right away at the expense of developing a young QB. And frankly, while we're being honest, the fact that Carl Peterson hired his friend (Herm Edwards) as a head coach without interviewing anybody else is just another point of proof about how horrible of a GM he was.

Wow.

Just remember....that Herm took Vermeil's leftovers to the playoffs....until he got his chance to rebuild.....and then he won 6 games in 2 seasons. Yeah....Herm was GREEEEEAAAAATTTTTTTT.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Bwana

Sure Carl was as much to blame as Herm. Thank God they are both down the road. Now we may have a chance in the next 5 years.

"As much"?

Carl Peterson ****ed this team up well before Herm ever came into town. Herm didn't do a great job of coaching, but Carl Peterson did a horrendous job in general management. Peterson deserves the majority of the blame. It amazes me that people actually struggle to see how bad of shape Peterson left this team after Vermeil left. No coach could have turned this team into a winner in those three years.

[Hammock Parties]

STOP...TALKING...ABOUT....HERM!!!!!!!!!

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Wow.

Just remember....that Herm took Vermeil's leftovers to the playoffs....until he got his chance to rebuild.....and then he won 6 games in 2 seasons. Yeah....Herm was GREEEEEAAAAATTTTTTTT.

You're wrong on multiple levels

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You're wrong on multiple levels

No, he's really not.

[luv]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

"As much"?

Carl Peterson ****ed this team up well before Herm ever came into town. Herm didn't do a great job of coaching, but Carl Peterson did a horrendous job in general management. Peterson deserves the majority of the blame. It amazes me that people actually struggle to see how bad of shape Peterson left this team after Vermeil left. No coach could have turned this team into a winner in those three years.

I don't think anyone struggles to see that. What we also do not struggle to see is that Herm sucked, Peterson or no Peterson.

[keg in kc]

Thank you for keeping the tradition of really stupid threads alive.

[Mecca]

I wonder if people are going to say Todd Haley sucks because this team still has a very poor overall talent level.

[Buzzsaw]

When you look at a head coach, you start with asking yourself "Can this guy win a Championship?". Herman Edwards can't even manage a game clock. The end.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You're wrong on multiple levels

Point out where I'm wrong then.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

When you look at a head coach, you start with asking yourself "Can this guy win a Championship?". Herman Edwards can't even manage a game clock. The end.

Clock management is one of the worst handled things in the NFL. You'd almost think these guys should play Madden for a couple hours and they might figure it out. When a Madden player can manage the clock better than an NFL coach, that's a problem.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

No, he's really not.

His claim was that Herm had a chance to rebuild and only won 6 games in 2 seasons.

The truth is, Herm wanted to rebuilt immediately and especially after the first season and Peterson outright refused to listen. And so, in 2008, it was two years too late and the team was in complete disarray. This is pretty much common knowledge right now. And to make matters worse, our GM did ZERO due diligence on the entire coaching staff and hired the two coordinators from within instead of at least looking at outside options.

The truth is, Herm inherited a shitty team and was never given much opportunity to make it his own. I don't know how anyone can claim otherwise, no matter what you think about his coaching style.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You're wrong on multiple levels

Why is your rep still green?

[JuicesFlowing]

Mike Solari as O.C. was one of the worst decisions I have ever seen.

[Mecca]

Herm is a really horrendous coach that talks a big game.

I think zilla is trying to make the point that Herm Edwards was in a no win situation. He was left with no young core pieces and a GM who did not want to rebuild. That's Herms fault for taking the job seeing as he knew what he was getting himself into.

But at the same time I see the point he took over an aging declining team and wanted to build through the draft when you change styles to that degree there will be some very bad years.