A case for Tyler Thigpen

[MMXcalibur]

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/08/27/a-ca...tyler-thigpen/

Thursday, August 27 2009
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Jason La Canfora
A case for Tyler Thigpen
Posted: August 27th, 2009 | Jason La Canfora | Tags: Baltimore Ravens, Ben Roethlisberger, Brodie Croyle, Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, Jacksonville Jaguars, Joe Flacco, Kansas City Chiefs, Matt Cassel, Matt Ryan, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, trades, Tyler Thigpen, Wildcat

I have a question for you guys: Name a first-year starting quarterback who accounted for more touchdowns than Super Bowl-winning veteran Ben Roethlisberger or standout rookies Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan last season? Here’s another one: Of all the players who ran the ball at least 50 times last season, who led the NFL in yards per carry?

OK, so the title of this blog makes the answer pretty much a dead giveaway. I think we all know who I’m talking about here (for the record, he averaged 6.2 yards per carry on 62 rushes). But I’m going to say it (read: type it): I like Tyler Thigpen. I’m not afraid to admit it, and I know some savvy NFL scouts/executives who value him, too.

I like Thigpen’s guts and competitiveness. I love his athleticism. I think he’s a playmaker who’s still quite raw (a 25-year-old who became a starter for a lame-duck staff last season, out of Coastal Carolina of all places) and has some warts but a ton of upside. He’s a kid who flashed some real talent, yet was surrounded by an Amy Winehouse-thin roster in Kansas City last season (having no defense and no running game did him no favors).

And it’s clear that the new Chiefs regime prefers Matt Cassel and Brodie Croyle to him — because Thigpen is being shopped — but if I’m running the average NFL team (which means I probably have 1.5 capable QBs on my roster, and, yeah I’m going to use a lot of parenthesis in this post), I’m making a play for this kid, even if it costs me more than a fifth-round draft pick (the current asking price).

So, let’s go back to the beginning here, a very good place to start.

Thigpen was thrust into duty after the Chiefs’ other quarterbacks went down with season-ending injuries. He ended up accounting for 22 touchdowns (18 passing, three rushing and one receiving) in just 11 starts for a 2-14 team that had some deep flaws. Roethlisberger, a $100 million QB, won a Super Bowl with help from the game’s best defense and accounted for 19 TDs (17 passing, two rushing) in 16 starts.

So Thigpen, as a second-year pro with no prior experience and a last-place roster around him, threw for 2,608 yards and 18 TDs with 12 interceptions in the first 11 starts of his career. And Roethlisberger, already fully polished and with a Super Bowl-quality roster around him, threw for 3,301 yards and 17 TDs with 15 interceptions in 16 games. Hmm, interesting. And Roethlisberger had as many turnovers as Thigpen did scores.

OK. In no way am I trying to say Thigpen is remotely the QB and playmaker than Big Ben is (nor could anyone expect him to be), but tell me this kid might not be worth a shot at being better than most teams’ current backup passer. (Personally, I think he’s a heck of a lot better than Croyle, for one, but I’m obviously not running any NFL teams). Hang with me here.

Ryan, the third overall pick in the 2008 draft, won the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year award, had the league’s best running game and a stout Falcons defense behind him, and he accounted for 17 total TDs in 16 starts. Flacco also was a first-round pick in 2008, started 16 games for a Ravens team with the league’s second-best defense and a robust running attack, and he accounted for 16 total TDs.

Let’s take it a little deeper. Well, Jason, you dope, the Chiefs stunk and Thigpen just put up a bunch of meaningless numbers while chasing teams in the second half of games, right?

Not so fast. The Chiefs either led entering the fourth quarter, led in the fourth quarter or were tied entering the fourth quarter in seven of Thigpen’s final 10 games. If anything, questionable play-calling, a horrid running game and an atrocious defense conspired against the young QB.

Overall, could Thigpen be better in the fourth quarter? Sure, he had a 62.0 rating and completed just 50 percent of his passes (four fourth-quarter TDs to four fourth-quarter interceptions isn’t that bad, though). This was a kid from a small school thrust into emergency starts with little coaching, and as we know, inexperienced passers tend to have issues late in games. Thigpen also was sacked 11 times on just 123 fourth-quarter pass attempts, so a suspect offensive line and lack of any sort of competent defense didn’t make things any easier on him.

Well, what about Thigpen completing just 55 percent of his passes and throwing 12 interceptions in just 14 games? Neither is ideal, no doubt. But let’s look at his offensive weapons. Dwayne Bowe and Devard Darling were his starting receivers. It wasn’t exactly the sure-hands crew. Besides having perennial Pro Bowl TE Tony Gonzalez, this kid was on his own.

As I said, Thigpen is raw and has some flaws, so coach him up (he was the first quarterback in Coastal Carolina history for goodness sake, with the program starting in 2003) and help him with film study and fundamentals. There is plenty to work with there.

This kid is incredibly fast — on his runs, he was almost never tackled by someone in the front seven. You can’t tell me he’s not one of the 64 best QBs out there, and given his skills and speed, he definitely could be someone who could help in the Wildcat. At 6-foot-1 and 224 pounds, Thigpen can take a hit.

As for the interceptions, that’s pretty common with young QBs. And the first came in a mop-up role in his first appearance of 2008, and three more came in his first NFL start, against the eventual NFC South champion Falcons, when you’d expect him to be nervous.

In the final 10 games, all starts, Thigpen threw 16 touchdown passes to eight interceptions. Not too shabby. And that’s far beyond anything the first-round bonus babies (JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn) from Thigpen’s draft year (2007) have accomplished.

Well, sure, those are decent numbers, but come on, the dude was in a shotgun most of the time and not a traditional offense?

Yep, the Chiefs, in desperation, got a bit gimmicky last season and spread things out. But a lot of teams are going more that route, and you guys tell me that Tom Brady (and last year, Cassel) and Flacco and Roethlisberger aren’t back there quite a bit, too.

Wow, I never thought I’d write this much about Tyler Thigpen, but, alas, it has happened. But how can you not like the kid? Never invited to the combine, seventh-round pick by the Vikings, claimed off waivers by the Chiefs in September 2007, tore his medial collateral ligament that rookie season and then ended up starting 11 games the next year when no one expected it, and, best as I can tell, did some pretty nice stuff.

And now, someone, if they’re smart, will meet the Chiefs’ price and trade for Thigpen. Sure, a third- or fourth-round pick is considerable, but when you look at what the kid has done, how valuable his position is and how few quality alternatives exist (let alone talented 25-year-olds), to me, a fourth-round pick is surely worth the shot.

The Jaguars have expressed the most interest to this point, and that’s one of several teams with a significant need for a backup QB. The Bills, Bears, Packers and Saints also have been closely monitoring the QB market. And people I talk to around the league don’t discount the Patriots making a move for a QB, too — particularly one who could provide a Wildcat element. The Ravens seriously considered trading for Thigpen before ultimately opting to sign Cleo Lemon a little while back, league sources said.

Some team will come away with a solid prospect in Thigpen, and frankly, I’m not quite sure why the Chiefs didn’t give him more of a look before locking in on Cassel.

Thigpen overload lately.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Here's another scenario. As most scouts predicted, Sanchez was underprepared for the NFL. Like most first-year rookie QBs thrown immediately into the starting position, he struggles as he learns to read complex blitz packages (which he has not yet seen in the preseason).

After the third game, the boo birds come out. And in New York, it's not just the fans, it's the media, the national TV coverage, everything. His face is plastered on every NY newspaper and he's surrounded by cameras that insult him for not being a star right away. How do you respond to that? In Leaf's case, you get angry and you stop listening to your coaches. In Harrington's case, your confidence gets rattled and you never recover. Or in Matt Leinart's case, you start living off your unearned money and don't commit to the game as you should. Or in Jamarcus Russel's case, you learn that the work ethic was never there. Or in Leftwich and Alex Smith's case, you learn that their skills don't translate on the NFL level.

These are things that New York will learn in a hurry about their QB.

Yeah, the New York fans can be impulsive and irrational, but their entire football community is not defined by the loud-mouthed goons who go to Radio City every year.
The Jets fans by and large know what they've got. And similar to KC fans, they now understand that quick fixes like Favre aren't going to get it done. Ryan's running a different kind of show with the media up there; he's invited them in. He's had the main movers and shakers of the local press come in and watch film with him as he explains what happened, why it happened, and if it's bad; what he'll do to make it right.

They're going through as big a transition as we are, and the old-timers who've led the call for heads to roll are now willing to hear the franchise out and exercise some patience.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

Yeah, the New York fans can be impulsive and irrational, but their entire football community is not defined by the loud-mouthed goons who go to Radio City every year.
The Jets fans by and large know what they've got. And similar to KC fans, they now understand that quick fixes like Favre aren't going to get it done. Ryan's running a different kind of show with the media up there; he's invited them in. He's had the main movers and shakers of the local press come in and watch film with him as he explains what happened, why it happened, and if it's bad; what he'll do to make it right.

They're going through as big a transition as we are, and the old-timers who've led the call for heads to roll are now willing to hear the franchise out and exercise some patience.

It's still a tougher media and fan base than most markets, even if they've wisened up. You don't need a loud market to be surrounded by pressure. Harrington and Leaf played in very forgiving markets, but just buckled under pressure. Lots of QBs have done that, in fact. The point being that there are going to be a lot of mental challenges. I'm not saying Sanchez won't get through it, but it's just something you'll never know about the kid until he hits the national stage.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Pooch

All I keep hearing about is what draft picks can we get for him. Who cares, we draft like crap anyways!! Look at how long it has been since we drafted a pro bowler. Everyone acts like a draft pick is a sure thing. I am tired of getting all hyped up for the draft and then get nothing out of it. Thigpen earned a spot, maybe a chance to become better maybe not. But what does it hurt to keep him.

Why are you posting this on a message board when not one person has anything to do with keeping him..

Its up to Pioli and Haley, they can see that if the dude blows or not...

All you little thiglettes are going to be crushed with our new GM and HC when they keep taking out Herms trash....

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Working backwards:

The odds aren't in his favor.

Second, I underestimated your ability to take past posts of mine and apply them to this conversation.

I would have worded my earlier statement better by saying that both Manning's, and Roethlisberger have PROVEN they deserve the franchise QB status. (I'm leaving Brady out of the conversation based on the fact that he was a needle in a haystack - let's talk about guys that were drafted or signed with the intention of being a franchise QB)

So, that leaves the following - guys that I consider franchise QB's based on their draft status, physical tools and intangibles - guys that were drafted with the expectation of being "the guy" for 10+ years and leading their team to a championship or more.

Rivers, Cutler, Ryan, Rodgers, Flacco, Stafford, Sanchez.

They just haven't proven it yet, but have many years to do so. They are all still young.

NcNabb was drafted to be a franchise QB, but as we've seen, can't win the big game. That drops him out of the conversation in my book.

Other than that, Quinn was the only other guy drafted with the intention of getting a franchise QB, and the jury is still out - though I think he'll be solid, but not capable of putting a tema on his back and winning a SB.

I'm not sure how anyone can look at the Cassel situation and say he was just brought in to be "a guy". This was the guy they wanted, and they passed up others to do so - not to mention paid him what they would have paid a franchise QB in the draft.

The rest of the guys I listed can stay as already described - none of them were drafted or signed thinking they would be a franchise QB, IMO.

what the **** does draft status have to do with being a franchise QB? that is just a stupid thing to say

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Wow, talk about disingenous.

Did Trent Dilfer play to the level expected of a franchise QB his entire career?

Or did he fall ass-backwards into the perfect spot, with the perfect team?

Had Peyton Manning played like Neil Lomax for 8 seasons, and then won a SB, we wouldn't be calling him a franchise QB either.

has eli manning played at a franchise level his WHOLE career?

[sedated]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

If that doesn't explain what a ****ing reerun you are, nothing will.

The guy was only a SBMVP before getting to Arizona...

oh, you mean the kurt warner that became a journeyman backup for a few years after his run in STL ended?

and even when he was in STL, who were his offensive teammates? Faulk, Holt, Bruce, Pace - most likely all hall of famers, or close.



(but warner can't be a "franchise guy" anyway, since he wasn't drafted high enough to fit your criteria)

[sedated]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Emmitt Smith, hands down.

we will have to agree to disagree.

unless I can take the 90's Cowboys offensive line along with Emmitt, I'm taking Barry Sanders, hands down.

[sedated]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

If that doesn't explain what a ****ing reerun you are, nothing will.

calm down there, bro. its just a discussion of opinions. take a deep breath or two before you have an aneurysm.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

None of that shit matters because he's a former Patriot. A product the Great Piolichick. A God among men from New England.

New England; where micro-brews flow through the rivers and streams so fresh and clean, you can dip your bottle in and taste Ambrosia. Where the sewers smell like a Lilly patch, and the turds transform in to chocolate bars as the piss becomes lemonade!
Where $100.00 bills grow from every chloroform-based vegetation as Prime Rib is hand delivered to your front door by Playboy Bunnies!
And where the Greatest Quarterbacks you'll ever be lucky enough to have pawned-off on you, you worthless, ****ing non-New England-ite, shall NEVER be questioned, only Praised and Worshiped.

You infidel.

Are you done being a dick?

Here's the other viewpoint.

Cassel has spent the past few seasons under one of the best HCs ever to be in the NFL, and has studied one of the best QBs ever to be in the NFL.

You don't think he's learned a thing or two from that?

You don't think that experience might count for something?

Or how about the fact that Pioli, who was also a partner in crime with that duo, picked Cassel, knows Cassel, and knows how to best help Cassel?

Some of you are sticking it up Cassel's ass before he's even thrown a pass in the NFL for you. Jesus H. on a f**king raft.

What's Sanchez's pedigree? He's a 22-year old who played for three seasons at USC (the college equivalent to New England, BTW... so let's talk about how much help Sanchez, like Cassel, had in looking good) and came out early. According to Wikipedia, that great fountain of knowledge, the last USC QB to come out early was Todd Marinovich. How'd that work out?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by JD10367

Are you done being a dick?

That was my response to the convoluted, up-down all-around the bend "logic" of Just Peddling Malarkey throughout the debate in this thread.
Back-pedal and goal-post move-age be his name.

[wild1]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

has eli manning played at a franchise level his WHOLE career?

2008 86.4
2007 73.9
2006 77.0
2005 75.9
2004 55.4

[Hammock Parties]

I like Tyler Thigpen. I’m not afraid to admit it, and I know some savvy NFL scouts/executives who value him, too.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

NEWS FLASH:

There is NO ****ING CASE FOR TYLER THIGPEN.

HE SUCKS.

[KCJohnny]

I didn't see the game (I am in Korea) but one bad game does not a football player make. Even if Thigpen was putrid, wasn't he in with the 2nd unit?

Its water under the bridge now, but paying $60 mil for a guy who threw 21 TDs in the same exact offense that Brady rang up 50 with isn't my idea of personnel genius. Thigpen's 22 scores last year were not a fluke, and he did it in 3/4s of a season with a 2-14 team.

If Cassel goes down and Thigpen is in Jax, KC will be in the same exact spot they were in last year (unless Brodie can stay healthy) when the #3 QB had to finish the season. At least Thigpen has experience with Gailey's O.

I don't like Haley, and I never thought the 9-7 Cards were the team to emulate.

[JuicesFlowing]

I'm putting this mother****ing thread on ignore RIGHT NOW.