Chiefs Babb: It's almost the middle of October. Too early to start thinking about the draft - Page 4

**Tribal Warfare** · 10-13-2009, 12:42 PM

It's almost the middle of October. Too early to start thinking about the draft?

Things I believe:

- The Chiefs have made progress in their first five games, all of which have been losses (and some of them ugly).
- It will benefit the team for having played three terrific teams -- Baltimore, the Giants and Philadelphia -- early in the season, as disheartening as those losses were.
- Matt Cassel has at least some of the skills necessary to be Kansas City's quarterback of the future, at least based on one stunningly impressive drive at the end of regulation Sunday.
- The Chiefs' remaining holes will hold back any significant progress until the team and general manager Scott Pioli have time to address them.

Think about that last one. That one nullifies the first three, and it makes everyone's job at Arrowhead Stadium a lot tougher than it should be. Here's one more thing I believe:

- The Chiefs will win no more than three games in 2009. That means that, for the third consecutive year, they'll probably have a top-five pick in the NFL draft.

So with that in mind, and the growing frustration among many of you, I have found myself looking past what will continue to be a season in which progress, and not necessary victories, is the objective. I have found myself looking toward next year's draft, when the Chiefs will have many chances to upgrade some positions that badly need them.

Not that the list starts and stops here, but here are the positions that I think the Chiefs absolutely must upgrade -- and have those upgrades work out, immediately -- in the draft, if not during free agency:

1. Offensive line
2. Wide receiver
3. Safety
4. Linebacker

Yeah, that's a lot. But the Chiefs will have lots of picks, including the additional second-rounder they received in exchange for Tony Gonzalez. That might not be an especially high pick, considering Atlanta looks pretty solid, but at this point, the Chiefs will take as many chances as they can get to improve a team that possesses more questionable position groups than reliable ones.

As usual, the question becomes this: If you have to choose, do you draft for need or for talent? This could be an issue next April. Safety is a need, sure, but it's not the top need. So, Tennessee safety Eric Berry at, say, No. 3, or reach for an offensive lineman? What about grabbing a star wide receiver with that top pick?

Some of you might disagree with this, but I think the Chiefs absolutely must -- as unsexy as it might be -- address their offensive line with the first pick. This should not be a debate, now or in the draft room. The Chiefs passed this year on signing a marquee lineman, and now they're paying for it. And it's not just that the line is suspect; a porous wall of blockers renders your running backs useless and your quarterback terrified. Neither Cassel, Larry Johnson nor Jamaal Charles will ever be as good as they could have been this season because of the weak offensive line they have blocking for them. That in turn puts more pressure on the Chiefs' wide receivers and, even on down the line, makes the defense's job tougher because the offense can't move the ball and give defenders a break. That happened against Baltimore, and it might have been the reason the Chiefs couldn't get a stop when they badly needed one. Also, Pioli was an offensive lineman in college. I'd have to think it's giving him recurring stomach cramps to watch the Chiefs' blockers.

It's in such turmoil that I think the Chiefs, who curiously waited until the fifth round to address their line, should use at least two of their top four picks on offensive linemen.

With the (first?) pick in the 2010 NFL draft, the Kansas City Chiefs select ...

... Russell Okung, offensive tackle out of Oklahoma State. Look, the name might change. We'll keep Okung there for now as a placeholder. But the position should not change. And I'll admit it now: I argued against taking a tackle at No. 3 overall this year because of Branden Albert. But after watching Albert struggle at times this year, I think the Chiefs need to make tackle the priority of the offseason. Whether that means moving Albert to right tackle or keeping him at the left side, at least the Chiefs would have options. When Albert left the game Sunday against Dallas, I wondered on Twitter if Albert was the Chiefs' most valuable player. Not the team's MVP but rather valuable in the more literal sense: What the heck would the Chiefs do if he was lost for the season? There's just nobody -- and don't give me Wade Smith -- whom the Chiefs should trust at that position. This makes it a clear choice with the first pick.

I'd probably draft a wide receiver or safety with the Chiefs' second-rounder, or even consider taking the best available player. Nose tackle, linebacker, cornerback, running back -- whomever's there, sell me on him. The Chiefs have that many needs. But I have to tell you: I'm going into that pick thinking about a wideout or a safety to replace Mike Brown.

With the Gonzalez pick, which could be somewhere in the bottom third of the second round, I'm going guard. Mike Goff hasn't been the Chiefs' answer at right guard, and you can get a terrific guard in the third. Center, too. I just think that, as much a liability as the Chiefs' line has been, it requires this kind of emphasis. Now, I'd expect Pioli to address the line in free agency, too, but I'd prefer to sign receivers or linebackers* and address the offensive line in the draft. If I'm building for the future, I'm drafting my elite linemen instead of signing them.

* They'll need several of these; I'm beginning to consider Derrick Johnson's return, if he indeed becomes a free agent [the collective bargaining agreement makes this complicated, and I won't bore you with it here], is becoming an enormous long shot. Corey Mays and Demorrio Williams are decent, but they're not outstanding inside linebackers. Mike Vrabel is aging and might be slowing. But hey, the Chiefs have Tamba Hali! One out of four ain't bad.

So, if they follow my advice, as they did when trading for Matt Cassel but ignored when they passed on Aaron Curry, this is one way the Chiefs' line could look next season:

LT: Okung (or whomever is the best left tackle come draft day)
LG: Brian Waters (He's slowing down, but he's good for another season or two)
C: Rudy Niswanger
RG: Second-round pick
RT: Albert

Suddenly, that line doesn't look so bad, does it? And that automatically improves the play of the Chiefs' quarterback, running backs, receivers, defense -- everybody.

Yes, it's early. But it's not too early to consider how much better the Chiefs would have been in 2009 if they entered last offseason with an emphasis on improving the line.

They didn't, and the Chiefs are suffering. I don't believe it'll get better in Kansas City until the line undergoes a massive overhaul.

Mecca · 10-13-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

For anyone who thinks Albert can play guard in the NFL, did you watch him in college? Did you see how he was used? He does NOT fit the type of OL that Haley appears to be building. If he plays inside it would have to be similar to what Vermeil ran. Smaller/finesse players like Weigman could excel in it, but when asked to maul they couldn't. It isn't a matter of just putting him inside because he played inside at Virginia.

So are you saying if he can't play at LT Todd Haley is to stubborn to put a player in the best position to succeed?

Mr. Laz · 10-13-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

For anyone who thinks Albert can play guard in the NFL, did you watch him in college? Did you see how he was used? He does NOT fit the type of OL that Haley appears to be building. If he plays inside it would have to be similar to what Vermeil ran. Smaller/finesse players like Weigman could excel in it, but when asked to maul they couldn't. It isn't a matter of just putting him inside because he played inside at Virginia.

So just cut his worthless ass and move on

Chiefnj2 · 10-13-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

So are you saying if he can't play at LT Todd Haley is to stubborn to put a player in the best position to succeed?

You don't build your philosophy and system around a single player.

Mecca · 10-13-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

You don't build your philosophy and system around a single player.

I've heard many coaches say you put players in the best position to succeed by playing to their strengths. I heard Saunders talk about this numerous times in relation to the Chiefs OL and how they played differently with Holmes than LJ..

If you're telling me a coach is so set in his ways that he can't play to what his players do well that is a major problem.

Chiefnj2 · 10-13-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

So just cut his worthless ass and move on

Did I say cut him? Did I say he can't cut it at LT? You can't simply plug people into different systems and think they can handle it. As great of a QB that Joe Montana was, he wouldn't have won all those rings if he was asked to run the system Peyton Manning runs.

Chiefnj2 · 10-13-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I've heard many coaches say you put players in the best position to succeed by playing to their strengths. I heard Saunders talk about this numerous times in relation to the Chiefs OL and how they played differently with Holmes than LJ..

If you're telling me a coach is so set in his ways that he can't play to what his players do well that is a major problem.

How do you know Albert is "his" player?

Mecca · 10-13-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

How do you know Albert is "his" player?

He's on the team he's coaching right?

If you ask players to do things they can't do, that makes you a shitty coach.

Chiefnj2 · 10-13-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

He's on the team he's coaching right?

If you ask players to do things they can't do, that makes you a shitty coach.

Just because he's on the team this year doesn't mean he's Haley's player.

I don't even know what you are arguing at this point. I said he doesn't fit as a interior lineman on a mauling type team.

Assuming he can't cut it at left tackle, are you suggesting Haley design a system specifically around Albert so he succeeds at left guard and isn't a wasted draft pick?

Was Vermeil supposed to change the entire offense around to suit Larry Johnson when he was drafted? If Timmons doesn't develop well for Pittsburgh, should the Steelers scratch their system to build around Timmons?

Mecca · 10-13-2009, 08:12 PM

Why would a team that wants mauling lineman want all their guys to lose weight?

That makes no god damn sense.

Chiefnj2 · 10-13-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Why would a team that wants mauling lineman want all their guys to lose weight?

That makes no god damn sense.

Stamina? Muscle/fat?

We aren't running a zone scheme or asking them to pull and move a lot are we?

milkman · 10-13-2009, 08:25 PM

Babb is a ****ing moron.

He wanted to trade for Cassel and draft curry last year, and this year he'd pass on a playmaker and take a spread LT?

Let's go ahead and give up on Albert.

I sure hope Cleveland gives up on Joe Thomas also.

JFC

Simply Red · 10-13-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I swear, people just assume that offensive linemen can play anywhere.

In the pros, he's a LT. Period.

He's not big enough, nor a talented enough run blocker to play inside against DT's/NT's and he's not the road grader necessary at RT either.

Did i ever tell you ty for your rapid response on my FFB question 3 weeks ago? Anyway, 'big-ups'

ChiefsCountry · 10-13-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Babb is a ****ing moron.

He wanted to trade for Cassel and draft curry last year, and this year he'd pass on a playmaker and take a spread LT?

Let's go ahead and give up on Albert.

I sure hope Cleveland gives up on Joe Thomas also.

JFC

If Cleveland wants to trade us Joe Thomas, I would put Albert's butt at guard then. It would be about the only way I would do it though.

**Easy 6** · 10-13-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I honestly think that while he may not be a long term solution, Wade Smith would be a drastic improvement over Niswanger, and Alleman would be the same at RG replacing Goff.

Count me in.

DumbHillbillies · 10-13-2009, 10:00 PM

This article is a fail. I hope babb doesn't have any inside information on the chiefs potential draft decisions. No way we should draft okung, it doesn't make sense to move albert and too high of a pick for a RT. I'm still wondering why albert looks so crappy this season and he was solid last year. That baffles me. Too bad we reached on jackson last year, suh actually looks like he is worth a top 3 pick. So, we can't go d-line with the first pick. My vote is mays or berry, whoever grades out higher. The more decisions pioli makes the more confirmation i get that belichek/mcdaniels were the real brains behind the patriots way.

10-13-2009, 12:42 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-3047187	Babb: It's almost the middle of October. Too early to start thinking about the draft It's almost the middle of October. Too early to start thinking about the draft? Things I believe: - The Chiefs have made progress in their first five games, all of which have been losses (and some of them ugly). - It will benefit the team for having played three terrific teams -- Baltimore, the Giants and Philadelphia -- early in the season, as disheartening as those losses were. - Matt Cassel has at least some of the skills necessary to be Kansas City's quarterback of the future, at least based on one stunningly impressive drive at the end of regulation Sunday. - The Chiefs' remaining holes will hold back any significant progress until the team and general manager Scott Pioli have time to address them. Think about that last one. That one nullifies the first three, and it makes everyone's job at Arrowhead Stadium a lot tougher than it should be. Here's one more thing I believe: - The Chiefs will win no more than three games in 2009. That means that, for the third consecutive year, they'll probably have a top-five pick in the NFL draft. So with that in mind, and the growing frustration among many of you, I have found myself looking past what will continue to be a season in which progress, and not necessary victories, is the objective. I have found myself looking toward next year's draft, when the Chiefs will have many chances to upgrade some positions that badly need them. Not that the list starts and stops here, but here are the positions that I think the Chiefs absolutely must upgrade -- and have those upgrades work out, immediately -- in the draft, if not during free agency: 1. Offensive line 2. Wide receiver 3. Safety 4. Linebacker Yeah, that's a lot. But the Chiefs will have lots of picks, including the additional second-rounder they received in exchange for Tony Gonzalez. That might not be an especially high pick, considering Atlanta looks pretty solid, but at this point, the Chiefs will take as many chances as they can get to improve a team that possesses more questionable position groups than reliable ones. As usual, the question becomes this: If you have to choose, do you draft for need or for talent? This could be an issue next April. Safety is a need, sure, but it's not the top need. So, Tennessee safety Eric Berry at, say, No. 3, or reach for an offensive lineman? What about grabbing a star wide receiver with that top pick? Some of you might disagree with this, but I think the Chiefs absolutely must -- as unsexy as it might be -- address their offensive line with the first pick. This should not be a debate, now or in the draft room. The Chiefs passed this year on signing a marquee lineman, and now they're paying for it. And it's not just that the line is suspect; a porous wall of blockers renders your running backs useless and your quarterback terrified. Neither Cassel, Larry Johnson nor Jamaal Charles will ever be as good as they could have been this season because of the weak offensive line they have blocking for them. That in turn puts more pressure on the Chiefs' wide receivers and, even on down the line, makes the defense's job tougher because the offense can't move the ball and give defenders a break. That happened against Baltimore, and it might have been the reason the Chiefs couldn't get a stop when they badly needed one. Also, Pioli was an offensive lineman in college. I'd have to think it's giving him recurring stomach cramps to watch the Chiefs' blockers. It's in such turmoil that I think the Chiefs, who curiously waited until the fifth round to address their line, should use at least two of their top four picks on offensive linemen. With the (first?) pick in the 2010 NFL draft, the Kansas City Chiefs select ... ... Russell Okung, offensive tackle out of Oklahoma State. Look, the name might change. We'll keep Okung there for now as a placeholder. But the position should not change. And I'll admit it now: I argued against taking a tackle at No. 3 overall this year because of Branden Albert. But after watching Albert struggle at times this year, I think the Chiefs need to make tackle the priority of the offseason. Whether that means moving Albert to right tackle or keeping him at the left side, at least the Chiefs would have options. When Albert left the game Sunday against Dallas, I wondered on Twitter if Albert was the Chiefs' most valuable player. Not the team's MVP but rather valuable in the more literal sense: What the heck would the Chiefs do if he was lost for the season? There's just nobody -- and don't give me Wade Smith -- whom the Chiefs should trust at that position. This makes it a clear choice with the first pick. I'd probably draft a wide receiver or safety with the Chiefs' second-rounder, or even consider taking the best available player. Nose tackle, linebacker, cornerback, running back -- whomever's there, sell me on him. The Chiefs have that many needs. But I have to tell you: I'm going into that pick thinking about a wideout or a safety to replace Mike Brown. With the Gonzalez pick, which could be somewhere in the bottom third of the second round, I'm going guard. Mike Goff hasn't been the Chiefs' answer at right guard, and you can get a terrific guard in the third. Center, too. I just think that, as much a liability as the Chiefs' line has been, it requires this kind of emphasis. Now, I'd expect Pioli to address the line in free agency, too, but I'd prefer to sign receivers or linebackers* and address the offensive line in the draft. If I'm building for the future, I'm drafting my elite linemen instead of signing them. * They'll need several of these; I'm beginning to consider Derrick Johnson's return, if he indeed becomes a free agent [the collective bargaining agreement makes this complicated, and I won't bore you with it here], is becoming an enormous long shot. Corey Mays and Demorrio Williams are decent, but they're not outstanding inside linebackers. Mike Vrabel is aging and might be slowing. But hey, the Chiefs have Tamba Hali! One out of four ain't bad. So, if they follow my advice, as they did when trading for Matt Cassel but ignored when they passed on Aaron Curry, this is one way the Chiefs' line could look next season: LT: Okung (or whomever is the best left tackle come draft day) LG: Brian Waters (He's slowing down, but he's good for another season or two) C: Rudy Niswanger RG: Second-round pick RT: Albert Suddenly, that line doesn't look so bad, does it? And that automatically improves the play of the Chiefs' quarterback, running backs, receivers, defense -- everybody. Yes, it's early. But it's not too early to consider how much better the Chiefs would have been in 2009 if they entered last offseason with an emphasis on improving the line. They didn't, and the Chiefs are suffering. I don't believe it'll get better in Kansas City until the line undergoes a massive overhaul.
Posts: 43,455

10-13-2009, 08:12 PM	#54
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-752950	Why would a team that wants mauling lineman want all their guys to lose weight? That makes no god damn sense.
Posts: 115,387

10-13-2009, 08:25 PM	#56
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	Babb is a ****ing moron. He wanted to trade for Cassel and draft curry last year, and this year he'd pass on a playmaker and take a spread LT? Let's go ahead and give up on Albert. I sure hope Cleveland gives up on Joe Thomas also. JFC __________________
Posts: 70,769

10-13-2009, 10:00 PM	#60
DumbHillbillies He-Haw ! He-Haw ! Join Date: Jul 2008 Casino cash: $10004925	This article is a fail. I hope babb doesn't have any inside information on the chiefs potential draft decisions. No way we should draft okung, it doesn't make sense to move albert and too high of a pick for a RT. I'm still wondering why albert looks so crappy this season and he was solid last year. That baffles me. Too bad we reached on jackson last year, suh actually looks like he is worth a top 3 pick. So, we can't go d-line with the first pick. My vote is mays or berry, whoever grades out higher. The more decisions pioli makes the more confirmation i get that belichek/mcdaniels were the real brains behind the patriots way.
Posts: 1,038