Chiefs Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? - Page 4

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-20-2009, 11:17 PM

Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Loyalty? Fairness?

You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited.

On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs.

Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse.

It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory.

“When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns.

“When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch.

“When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium.

That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense.

It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray.

We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too.

You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates.

Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants.

Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat?

You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel.

Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands.

Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley?

What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach?

I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind.

Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver.

Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse.

I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.

**Bane** · 12-21-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

Mr. irrelevant doesn't get paid shit either, def. the team MVP along with Charles

I just think its bad when the one position you don't have to worry about is the one you filled with the very last pick of the draft.

**DeezNutz** · 12-21-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbucks24

To Whitlock's point, what coaches are going to work for haley next year? Let's forget how he treats people for now. For all we know, he might treat people well to their face and only goes taz devil on the sidelines. But if you were a coach from another team, would you come here knowing that Haley is on the hot seat and if he fails, he will be canned as well as you? Is it worth moving for what could very possible be one and done? If you were the QB coadh for the Cowboys and Haley offered you the OC position, would you take it, knowing full well you could be unemployed in a year?

Yeah, these are good questions. In short, if you have a lame duck coach, you should fire him and move on, period.

DBOSHO · 12-21-2009, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And got rid of a guy just as good as him in Conner Barth.

The Succop pick yields 0 points for Pioli.

Why keep 2 kickers? Expecially one with a weaker leg?

DJ's left nut · 12-21-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Yeah, these are good questions. In short, if you have a lame duck coach, you should fire him and move on, period.

It's an especially thin limb for guys like Crennel and Weiss.

If Cassel is truly as bad as he's shown this season and we aren't able to completely rebuild our LB corps (seeing as how dicksmoke wasted the entire 2009 offseason), we're still a 5 win team at best, and then if Haley goes, Crennel and Weiss are guys coming off repeat failures w/ Bill Belichick on their resume.

The Belichick tag is quickly becoming the 'Tedford QB' tag of NFL coordinators and staff. McDaniels may or may not be Aaron Rodgers, but I'm pretty sure that we drew Trent Dilfer in Scott Pioli, I'm not exactly looking for Joey Harrington and Akili Smith.

DJ's left nut · 12-21-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBOSHO

Why keep 2 kickers? Expecially one with a weaker leg?

My point being that all we did in drafting Succop was replace the guy we cut.

And no, Barth does not have a weaker leg, as evidenced by Barth's 3 50+ makes a few weeks back.

Had we never made the Succop pick, we'd still have Barth and we'd still be the exact same club. In other words, all Succop's success has done is mask the fact that he cut a pretty good kicker in his own right.

The Chiefs are no better off because Ryan Succop was drafted.

DBOSHO · 12-21-2009, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

My point being that all we did in drafting Succop was replace the guy we cut.

And no, Succop does not have a weaker leg, as evidenced by Barth's 3 50+ makes a few weeks back.

Had we never made the Succop pick, we'd still have Barth and we'd still be the exact same club. In other words, all Succop's success has done is mask the fact that he cut a pretty good kicker in his own right.

The Chiefs are no better off because Ryan Succop was drafted.

Wait...succop doesnt have a weaker leg because barth made 50+ kicks?

I get what you are saying, but im ok with drafting a stud kicker with the last pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-21-2009, 12:26 AM

People will do anything to bash Whitlock.

He's making a pretty common rhetorical move. Rather than state your case, have the other side state theirs. What evidence is there that Todd Haley deserves to coach this team next year? What has he done to prove that he's qualified to do anything other than work as a trainer on The Biggest Loser?

I asked a similar question earlier today about Pioli. What has he done in KC to show you that he knows anything about personnel evaluation?

Sure-Oz · 12-21-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

People will do anything to bash Whitlock.

He's making a pretty common rhetorical move. Rather than state your case, have the other side state theirs. What evidence is there that Todd Haley deserves to coach this team next year? What has he done to prove that he's qualified to do anything other than work as a trainer on The Biggest Loser?

I asked a similar question earlier today about Pioli. What has he done in KC to show you that he knows anything about personnel evaluation?

I hope he isn't our football version of Dayton Moore, not a good 1st year

Mecca · 12-21-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

People will do anything to bash Whitlock.

He's making a pretty common rhetorical move. Rather than state your case, have the other side state theirs. What evidence is there that Todd Haley deserves to coach this team next year? What has he done to prove that he's qualified to do anything other than work as a trainer on The Biggest Loser?

I asked a similar question earlier today about Pioli. What has he done in KC to show you that he knows anything about personnel evaluation?

The answers to these questions are...nothing.

However we'll see answers that involve things like process, time, yadda yadda.

DJ's left nut · 12-21-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBOSHO

Wait...succop doesnt have a weaker leg because barth made 50+ kicks?

I get what you are saying, but im ok with drafting a stud kicker with the last pick.

But Succop's not really a 'stud' kicker. He's just another kicker in a sea of decet kickers. He looks great by comparison because the rest of our draft is dogshit.

Break his #s down, he's making his bones off of chip shots.

He's 8 for 8 on kicks shorter than 30 yards.

He's 2-5 on kicks greater than 49.

In other words, on the gimme kicks that he damn well oughta be good; he is. On the long kicks where the true 'studs' show themselves to be difference makers, he's below average.

Even his game winner against Pitt was a 22 yarder, I'm hardly going to start on his Canton bust just yet on account of a glorified XP.

I wouldn't go calling us set at kicker just yet. I think we had a better one in Barth.

(and you're right, my first post didn't make much sense, it had a typo. I meant to say that Barth does not have a weaker leg)

Titty Meat · 12-21-2009, 12:30 AM

Cam Cameron was fired after 1 season and the team did pretty good when he was fired

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-21-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's an especially thin limb for guys like Crennel and Weiss.

If Cassel is truly as bad as he's shown this season and we aren't able to completely rebuild our LB corps (seeing as how dicksmoke wasted the entire 2009 offseason), we're still a 5 win team at best, and then if Haley goes, Crennel and Weiss are guys coming off repeat failures w/ Bill Belichick on their resume.

The Belichick tag is quickly becoming the 'Tedford QB' tag of NFL coordinators and staff. McDaniels may or may not be Aaron Rodgers, but I'm pretty sure that we drew Trent Dilfer in Scott Pioli, I'm not exactly looking for Joey Harrington and Akili Smith.

I think it's closer to Penn State running back.

DJ's left nut · 12-21-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

People will do anything to bash Whitlock.

He's making a pretty common rhetorical move. Rather than state your case, have the other side state theirs. What evidence is there that Todd Haley deserves to coach this team next year? What has he done to prove that he's qualified to do anything other than work as a trainer on The Biggest Loser?

I asked a similar question earlier today about Pioli. What has he done in KC to show you that he knows anything about personnel evaluation?

I asked that question 5 months ago.

And again 3 months ago.

The answer is evidently that I'm not a GM and should therefore

.

Titty Meat · 12-21-2009, 12:31 AM

It's also worth mentioning the team that shit canned their GM and will fire the coach put up records aginst the Chiefs.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-21-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

I hope he isn't our football version of Dayton Moore, not a good 1st year

That's exactly what it is, it couldn't be any more evident.

Second in command from a successful team comes in, makes a series of baffling moves, while the organization constantly stresses "players" over talent.

Is there really any difference between "The Right 53" and "25 Ross Gloads"? Of course not.

This is the same group who before the season said they thought they had the Right 53.

Guys like Larry Johnson
Bobby Engram
Monty Beisel
Mike Goff
Sean Ryan
Jake O'Connell

What a crock of shit.

12-20-2009, 11:17 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-2997187	Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? By JASON WHITLOCK The Kansas City Star I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back. Loyalty? Fairness? You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited. On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs. Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse. It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory. “When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns. “When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch. “When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium. That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense. It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray. We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too. You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates. Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants. Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat? You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel. Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands. Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back. Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley? What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach? I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind. Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver. Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse. I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.
Posts: 43,454

12-21-2009, 12:26 AM	#52
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	People will do anything to bash Whitlock. He's making a pretty common rhetorical move. Rather than state your case, have the other side state theirs. What evidence is there that Todd Haley deserves to coach this team next year? What has he done to prove that he's qualified to do anything other than work as a trainer on The Biggest Loser? I asked a similar question earlier today about Pioli. What has he done in KC to show you that he knows anything about personnel evaluation? __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

12-21-2009, 12:30 AM	#56
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $-1182442	Cam Cameron was fired after 1 season and the team did pretty good when he was fired
Posts: 78,150

12-21-2009, 12:31 AM	#59
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $-1182442	It's also worth mentioning the team that shit canned their GM and will fire the coach put up records aginst the Chiefs.
Posts: 78,150