Bill Simmons on Tom Brady/Matt Cassel

[Hootie]

The Montreal Screw-Job Award for "Most Shocking Turn on a Beloved Figure"

I didn't call my father during the first half of the Baltimore beating. There was nothing to say. When you give up an 83-yard run to start a game against a team you know wants to run 40 times, you kinda know how it's going to turn out. We all knew the 2009 Patriots had a playoff stink bomb in them; just not in Round 1 at home. Anyway, I was too depressed to call him at halftime. After another Brady interception in the third quarter, my cell phone started vibrating. Yup, it was a text from my dad.

"We never should have traded Cassel."

(Ouch.)

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BCD

Do you really wanna be held in the same light as Hootie?

If the alternative is be lumped in with a group that thinks Brady is comparable or even better than Payton Manning? I'll live with it.

'Cause it isn't close.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

If 8 games in '09 were enough to shellshock Cassel, he's an unbelievable pussy.

He needs another viable weapon, and then he needs to perform. No excuses.

I wouldn't put it that way on the first point, but the line is no excuse. That I agree with. He had good enough protection in the second half of the season and a hell of a lot better than Aaron Rodgers gets.

On the second point, that's something I also agree with. As I watched the Colts play last night, I realized that Peyton Manning actually throws to the back of his receivers quite a bit. He's not always perfect at leading his receivers. And as I watched the Saints, Brees throws a ton of passes to the receivers' back shoulder. The Saints' receivers are actually really remarkable about making in-pass adjustments to the ball. i remember a TD pass where I think it was Devery Henderson pretty much did a full 180 to make the proper adjustment to the ball on a fleaflicker. And if you watch Philip Rivers today, what you will see is probably the deadest, worst thrown ball I've ever seen in the NFL. But his receivers catch them. Of course I'm not implying that Cassel is even close to being in any of those guys' league. But I have seen the excuse thrown around that he cripples his receivers, but the more I watch playoff football, the more I realize that receivers just don't have any excuse for not catching a ball that isn't within reasonable reaching distance of their hands. Good receivers make adjustments. Chambers has done that a lot. My opinion of Bowe has taken a complete nosedive throughout this season.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by JD10367

They're not yanking Cassel after one season. Especially not before seeing what Weis can do, and what Cassel looks like with a year of the Chiefs under his belt.

But I'd disagree with "especially after the year he had here". Yeah, he didn't look great. But he still did some things. He was 20th in passing yardage, better than Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez, and some other QBs who might be considered "better than Cassel". His TD/INT ratio was dead even (as was Matt Hasselbeck's); Cutler's was one TD better than even, and Stafford and Sanchez had way more INTs than TDs.

His QB rating was 25th. Sucks, huh? But look at the 24 guys above him.

100+ to 90:
1. Brees
2. Favre
3. Rivers
4. Rodgers
5. Roethlisberger
6. P. Manning
7. Schaub
8. Romo
9. Brady
10. Warner
11. E. Manning
12. McNabb

90 to 80:
13. Flacco
14. Orton
15. Campbell
16. Palmer
17. Garrard
18. Young
19. Smith

80 to 70:
20. Ryan
21. Cutler
22. Henne
23. Hasselbeck
24. Bulger
25. Cassel (69.9)

I think it's safe to say that the top group of 13 are clearly pretty elite QBs. The rest could be mixed-and-matched IMO and the difference in their numbers can be attributed to the talent around them, the teams they played, and the bounce of the ball. I don't think David Garrard or Chad Henne are that much better than Cassel, just as I don't think Flacco, Orton, or Campbell are necessarily better than Carson Palmer.

For a guy with his first year with a new team, with a new coach (who is new at his job), and a shaky cast of characters, IMO Cassel did about what I expected. Sure, there were many games and plays he could've done better. Doesn't mean he's a bust.

The thing is, in NE he showed he has the ability to play well in the right system, with a lot of surrounding talent.

In KC, he showed he doesn't have to ability to raise the level of talent around him, and in some ways drag the talent down.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I wouldn't put it that way on the first point, but the line is no excuse. That I agree with. He had good enough protection in the second half of the season and a hell of a lot better than Aaron Rodgers gets.

On the second point, that's something I also agree with. As I watched the Colts play last night, I realized that Peyton Manning actually throws to the back of his receivers quite a bit. He's not always perfect at leading his receivers. And as I watched the Saints, Brees throws a ton of passes to the receivers' back shoulder. The Saints' receivers are actually really remarkable about making in-pass adjustments to the ball. i remember a TD pass where I think it was Devery Henderson pretty much did a full 180 to make the proper adjustment to the ball on a fleaflicker. And if you watch Philip Rivers today, what you will see is probably the deadest, worst thrown ball I've ever seen in the NFL. But his receivers catch them. Of course I'm not implying that Cassel is even close to being in any of those guys' league. But I have seen the excuse thrown around that he cripples his receivers, but the more I watch playoff football, the more I realize that receivers just don't have any excuse for not catching a ball that isn't within reasonable reaching distance of their hands. Good receivers make adjustments. Chambers has done that a lot. My opinion of Bowe has taken a complete nosedive throughout this season.

We're on the same page. But, honestly, I don't know how else to put it when I hear talk about Cassel's development being stunted because of the line. It was really bad in a handful of games. Fine. But not a problem in the second half.

What are you supposed to call a QB who can't overcome this mental obstacle?

Also, notice that Manning uses all of his options, distributing the ball to anyone, including no-name limp dicks. Magically, they catch passes and make plays. Why is this? Superior talent? Or...

I don't think Cassel throws a very catchable ball.

[philfree]

[QUOTE=milkman;6452424]The thing is, in NE he showed he has the ability to play well in the right system, with a lot of surrounding talent.

In KC, he showed he doesn't have to ability to raise the level of talent around him, and in some ways draf the talent down.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he did? LOL They were so bad you just couldn't tell.


PhilFree

[Mosbonian]

Originally Posted by milkman

****ing idiot.


Oh....sorry.
Instinctive reaction..

OK..that made me laugh.

Originally Posted by milkman

Seriously, I'd be surprised to see anyone talking Pioli into trading Cassel this year, especially after the year he had here, making his value far less than what we gave up for him.

I'd also be surprised if Weis could even talk him into draftong Clausen even without a trade simply to hedge his bet.

It would surprise me too....but I would be surprised at nothing.

I do see us taking a QB somewhere, considering the fact that it's pretty evident that Croyle is not even fit to be a backup.

mmaddog
*******

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I wouldn't put it that way on the first point, but the line is no excuse. That I agree with. He had good enough protection in the second half of the season and a hell of a lot better than Aaron Rodgers gets.

On the second point, that's something I also agree with. As I watched the Colts play last night, I realized that Peyton Manning actually throws to the back of his receivers quite a bit. He's not always perfect at leading his receivers. And as I watched the Saints, Brees throws a ton of passes to the receivers' back shoulder. The Saints' receivers are actually really remarkable about making in-pass adjustments to the ball. i remember a TD pass where I think it was Devery Henderson pretty much did a full 180 to make the proper adjustment to the ball on a fleaflicker. And if you watch Philip Rivers today, what you will see is probably the deadest, worst thrown ball I've ever seen in the NFL. But his receivers catch them. Of course I'm not implying that Cassel is even close to being in any of those guys' league. But I have seen the excuse thrown around that he cripples his receivers, but the more I watch playoff football, the more I realize that receivers just don't have any excuse for not catching a ball that isn't within reasonable reaching distance of their hands. Good receivers make adjustments. Chambers has done that a lot. My opinion of Bowe has taken a complete nosedive throughout this season.

I think there's a difference between a poorly placed ball and a poorly thrown ball (though I would also argue that a couple of the passes you allude to here, like the Henderson catch, were actually perfectly placed throws given the coverage, but that's another debate).

Some of the drops by the Chiefs were both poorly placed and poorly thrown.

A drop by Bowe was a ball so wobbly it damn near looked like an end over end punted ball.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by mmaddog

I know when I ask you, I'll get an informed answer rather than a barrage of posts about how stupid I am....so I pose this question to you:

With Weis' knowledge of Clausen would they trade Cassel (even though he probably doesn't have any value to anyone but McDaniels in Denver) and draft Clausen instead?

We have so many more pressing needs, but my concern is that someone might talk Pioli/Haley into seeing Clausen as the QBOTF and trade Cassel for an extra draft pic.

mmaddog
*******

The thing is, you aren't going to get 10cents on the dollar with Cassel. You really can't deal him at this point because there is absolutely no market for him.

I think Clausen is going to go #1 to the Rams, so it's a mute point.

I think Weis is probably one of the best groomers of QBs in the NFL. The guy knows talent and knows how to elevate talent. If Cassel can't progress with him, then we are ****ed. Plain and simple.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

The thing is, you aren't going to get 10cents on the dollar with Cassel. You really can't deal him at this point because there is absolutely no market for him.

I think Clausen is going to go #1 to the Rams, so it's a mute point.

I think Weis is probably one of the best groomers of QBs in the NFL. The guy knows talent and knows how to elevate talent. If Cassel can't progress with him, then we are ****ed. Plain and simple.

If he doesn't progress this year is done as he will not see the big roster bonus for 2011.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

I think there's a difference between a poorly placed ball and a poorly thrown ball (though I would also argue that a couple of the passes you allude to here, like the Henderson catch, were actually perfectly placed throws given the coverage, but that's another debate).

Don't get me wrong. Perfectly thrown balls. And what makes Brees so amazing is he is flawless at knowing how to throw passes that only the receiver can get to. Cassel doesn't have that. The point is, there are a ton of catches in the game where I saw Brees throw to a receiver's back shoulder and the receiver makes an in-route adjustment. I almost never see Bowe do that. I have seen Chambers do that on a number of occasions, and he's only been here half a year.

This is definitely not saying Brees is inaccurate. It's merely ripping into our receivers, namely Bowe, for never doing anything in-route to adjust to the ball.

Some of the drops by the Chiefs were both poorly placed and poorly thrown.

Some of them were. Unfortunately, a pretty good chunk of them were imperfect but very catchable passes. Like I said, if you actually watch the placement of a lot of Peyton's passes, they end up at the receiver's back hip. Sometimes that's intentional, but regardless, it's not a pass in stride and the receiver makes a necessary adjustment. Apart from Chambers and once a game (at the most) Bowe, our receivers can't catch the ball unless it is a perfect pass thrown exactly in stride. That's an enormous problem.

A drop by Bowe was a ball so wobbly it damn near looked like an end over end punted ball.

Sometimes. But I would argue that on most passes, Cassel's ball looks a hundred times better than Rivers' ball. And Chargers' receivers never drop a thing.


I'm not making excuses for Cassel. He's got to get better and he can't do 1/20 of the things yesterday's QBs did. But the more I watch the playoffs, the more I realize how much our receivers suck. And it's not just the Fitzgeralds of the world doing this. It's the Colliers, the Devery Hendersons, and the Doucets. The more I watch these guys the more I question if Bowe is any good at all.

[DeezNutz]

Given how well Arizona's other receivers stepped up in the playoffs, I'm going to be somewhat surprised if KC doesn't make a pretty hard push for Boldin.

Might likely be saying goodbye to one of our seconds, in addition to something else.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

We're on the same page. But, honestly, I don't know how else to put it when I hear talk about Cassel's development being stunted because of the line. It was really bad in a handful of games. Fine. But not a problem in the second half.

What are you supposed to call a QB who can't overcome this mental obstacle?

Also, notice that Manning uses all of his options, distributing the ball to anyone, including no-name limp dicks. Magically, they catch passes and make plays. Why is this? Superior talent? Or...

I don't think Cassel throws a very catchable ball.

I don't buy that.

Chambers hasn't had much problem catching the ball. And Rivers throws the absolute worst ball in football.

Our receivers just aren't very good. And Chris Chambers, a good not great receiver, who performed extremely well in the worst of circumstances is living proof of that.

[DBOSHO]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Given how well Arizona's other receivers stepped up in the playoffs, I'm going to be somewhat surprised if KC doesn't make a pretty hard push for Boldin.

Might likely be saying goodbye to one of our seconds, in addition to something else.

Idk if id want anquan for a 2nd. Hes 30 and is getting injured often

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don't buy that.

Chambers hasn't had much problem catching the ball. And Rivers throws the absolute worst ball in football.

Our receivers just aren't very good. And Chris Chambers, a good not great receiver, who performed extremely well in the worst of circumstances is living proof of that.

Rivers' mechanics are ugly, but his passes are not the worst balls in football.

He throws a very catchable ball.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Given how well Arizona's other receivers stepped up in the playoffs, I'm going to be somewhat surprised if KC doesn't make a pretty hard push for Boldin.

Might likely be saying goodbye to one of our seconds, in addition to something else.

Mort reported on ESPN this morning that Arizona is going to be "very aggressive" in moving him - to the point of only taking a 3rd and 5th.