Lilja & Wiegmann: More Questions Than Answers

[Hammock Parties]

http://kan.scout.com/2/955591.html

Think back a few weeks, to a point before free agency started. Can you imagine someone telling you that the Chiefs would be able to land a recent Pro Bowl center and a 28-year-old guard who played in two of the last four Super Bowls? And that they would do it before St. Patrick’s Day?

How would you have reacted? With excitement? Jubilation? The thought of such major upgrades finally being made to KC’s offensive line would have thrilled just about any Chiefs fan.

As we all know, those additions have actually happened in the form of two ex-Chiefs who’ve returned to Kansas City. One of them – Casey Wiegmann – was a starter here from 2001-2007. The other – Ryan Lilja – was originally a Chief during the summer of his rookie season before he was cut and claimed off waivers by the Indianapolis Colts.

Instead of providing us with some certainty about the offensive line, though, these new signings have actually left us here at Warpaint Illustrated with more questions than answers about where the line is headed.

Casey Wiegmann

Perhaps the most unusual thing about Wiegmann’s return to the Chiefs is that the team chose to bring in a veteran center over 35 and it wasn’t former Tennessee Titan Kevin Mawae.

It’s been obvious over the last year that Scott Pioli and Todd Haley put a premium on players they have prior experience with. Wiegmann has strong ties to the Chiefs’ franchise, but he has no history with the new regime. On the other hand, Pioli and Haley, plus numerous other members of the Chiefs’ staff, were with the New York Jets in 1998 when Mawae began his eight-year stay there.

Like Wiegmann, Mawae is a smaller center, adept at pulling and zone blocking. He’s about a year and a half older than Wiegmann, but the fact that he’s coming off two straight Pro Bowls suggests his tank isn’t empty quite yet. If the Chiefs wanted to sign an aging center, Mawae seemed like a perfect fit.

So what made the team sign Wiegmann instead? That answer may shed some light on what the team has in mind for him.

The decision could have come down to money, of course. Perhaps Mawae was asking for more than the Chiefs wanted to pay a player of his age. On the other hand, Mawae’s agent has made no secret of the fact that his client is looking for a starting job. Maybe that’s what took the Chiefs out of the running.

In other words, maybe the team wasn’t looking to sign a new starter. With backup center Wade Smith leaving for Houston in free agency, perhaps the Chiefs were simply looking to add some depth.

Many have already penciled Wiegmann into the starting lineup, but we have to consider the possibility that starting Wiegmann over Rudy Niswanger might not actually be in the team’s plans.

Why didn't the Chiefs sign Kevin Mawae? Getty

But let’s assume they do plan to start him. In that case, Wiegmann would presumably line up between Lilja and Brian Waters. That means two-thirds of the Chiefs’ interior line would weigh less than 300 pounds.

Does the team really plan to go that small? Couldn’t that pose a problem on the goal line and in short-yardage situations?

The Patriots, with Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, and Stephen Neal, don’t have an interior that small. The Cardinals, with Reggie Wells, Deuce Lutui, and Lyle Sendlein, have a considerable amount of beef in the middle. If the Chiefs do plan to line up such a slim interior, it would be a departure from the norm for both Pioli and Haley.

Then there’s the upcoming draft, which is another factor to keep in mind. It’s been far too long since the Chiefs addressed the center position by drafting a young player. Given his obvious connection to Charlie Weis, there has been speculation around Notre Dame center Eric Olsen, but by no means is he the only prospect worth looking at.

If the Chiefs draft a center this year, it’s hard to imagine them keeping three. So who becomes the odd man out? If the idea is to groom a young player, then having a veteran like Wiegmann around makes sense.

But what happens with Niswanger? Would the team pull their RFA tender, making him a free agent? Would they move him back to guard, where he saw his first action with the Chiefs?

There are plenty of questions, but few answers.


Ryan Lilja

As a member of the Colts, Lilja lined up at left guard. In Kansas City, Brian Waters has that spot occupied. Will the Chiefs simply move Lilja to the right side of the line? That obviously seems like the easiest solution, but we can’t ignore that Waters has been the subject of trade rumors since his unpleasant meeting with Chiefs’ brass last year.

How does Lilja’s arrival impact Branden Albert? If Lilja and Waters are entrenched at guard, then it casts doubt on the mainstream theory that has the Chiefs drafting a left tackle with their first-round pick. After all, unless you put stock into the strange reports about a possible move to right tackle, Albert would then have nowhere to move.

However, the biggest questions aren’t about Lilja’s position – they’re about his health.

According to a Tweet from Scout.com’s own Adam Caplan, Lilja was cut by the Colts after failing a physical. For a player who missed the entire 2008 season because of three surgeries on his knee, that’s no small detail.

However, it’s fair to say that some have been skeptical of that report. They point to the fact that Lilja started 21 games for the Colts last year – two in the preseason, all 16 games of the regular season, and Indy’s three postseason contests. Only once in that span did Lilja appear on the Colts’ injury report, when he was listed as probable for the Super Bowl with a sore back.

Then there’s the fact that Lilja presumably passed his physical with the Chiefs. He was also in good enough shape for the team to give him a three-year contract, rather than the one-year deals signed by Wiegmann, Mike Vrabel, Shaun Smith, and others.

But that takes us back to the Colts’ decision to release Lilja in the first place. It’s been widely reported that Indy plans to utilize larger offensive linemen now that longtime line coach Howard Mudd has retired. But would that alone prompt them to release one of their starters? Particularly when, according to many Colts fans, there doesn’t seem to be an obvious replacement for Lilja?

As one of the league’s best-run franchises, the Colts aren’t in the habit of making foolish personnel decisions. Knowing that, logic would suggest some additional factors behind Lilja’s release, apart from their shift in philosophy. They paid Lilja a scheduled roster bonus before releasing him, so financial reasons don’t seem to apply. Injury concerns are one of the only reasons that make sense.

We’ve already covered the size issue, but if Lilja’s injuries have in any way limited his ability, it only exacerbates those concerns. More information on his health status will surely come out, but once again, it’s a situation where the questions outnumber the answers.

Until we get a better idea of the Chiefs’ plans, it may be awhile before we can discuss the offensive line with any certainty. In fact, when it comes to these new additions, it seems like the only thing we know for sure is that we don’t know anything for sure.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I would think that when people take off their homer goggles, they see that Mawae is a better center than Casey at this point in their careers.

The point being, that if you're going to sign an older, veteran stopgap, why not sign (or attempt to sign) the more talented of the two?

Maybe I'm a homer, but I don't think that there's enough difference between the two to say that one would be materially better nor worse than the other. Mawae is older and will earn more. I'll take Wiegmann, but I think you're pretty much talking about two guys who are too similar to really take a strong opinion either way.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Maybe I'm a homer, but I don't think that there's enough difference between the two to say that one would be materially better nor worse than the other. Mawae is older and will earn more. I'll take Wiegmann, but I think you're pretty much talking about two guys who are too similar to really take a strong opinion either way.

You're a homer.

If I were post a poll at another teams board that had no affiliation with KC, Denver or Tennessee and asked who is the better center, I'd be flat-out shocked if Weigmann took 30% of the votes.

JMO

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You're a homer.

If I were post a poll at another teams board that had no affiliation with KC, Denver or Tennessee and asked who is the better center, I'd be flat-out shocked if Weigmann took 30% of the votes.

JMO

No doubt Mawae has had the better career. At this point the question is whether Mawae is actually that much better or is the significant difference in reputation based on past history more than current talent level.

I really don't know. I am not confident that at this point in their careers there is a huge gap in talent level. Reputation yes, actual talent?

[CrazyHorse]

This will be the second time I know of that Wiegman lost his job to a power run game. When Priest was here he enjoyed a sweep or perimeter run game where the oline pulled. When PH left and LJ was the starter we soon went to the power run game and Casey wasn't built for it. He had a bad season because of it. So he was let go. Not because he was done. He goes to Denver who runs a zone scheme and immediately goes to the probowl. After Shanny leaves, the Donks get away from the zone scheme, Casey has a bad season. Out the door he goes for the second time.

Hopefully, there's a little left in the tank. Centers last a long time, but he is 37, right? A 1 year contract will tell the story. But the answer is, we are moving back to a more diverse running attack. I welcome it.

As for Lilja. .If the Colts are going bigger, then he should be let go. That's the answer. If you are at the end of your contract, and you dont fit the scheme, you get let go. If he passed a physical for us, and played every game last season, then the question is, who said he failed a physical. I remember Turley passing a physical though, that he probably had no business passing. Either way, we aren't on the hook for much on the deal and he stands to help us over what we have. Even if he's no better than mediocre.

The question is, will these guys help this team get better?

The answer is, it's a break even or win proposition. I'll take that every time.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You're a homer.

If I were post a poll at another teams board that had no affiliation with KC, Denver or Tennessee and asked who is the better center, I'd be flat-out shocked if Weigmann took 30% of the votes.

JMO

Mawae is currently a better player. But did you also factor in that he's 2.5 years older and might have been a tougher sell to bring into the city of Kansas City? Wiegmann's old. But Mawae is 39. That's scary.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Mawae is currently a better player. But did you also factor in that he's 2.5 years older and might have been a tougher sell to bring into the city of Kansas City? Wiegmann's old. But Mawae is 39. That's scary.

If it's for one year, what's the difference?

Give me the better player.

Now, KC being a tough sell I agree with completely. But it doesn't appear that they even attempted to bring him in.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

If it's for one year, what's the difference?

Give me the better player.

Now, KC being a tough sell I agree with completely. But it doesn't appear that they even attempted to bring him in.

I think the point being it's not like we're talking like two players on completely different talent levels. We're talking about a better player who is going to turn 40 by the end of the season, vs. a slightly younger player who isn't a ton worse than the other guy.

If Mawae is better, it's not by a whole ton, when you factor in age. I think it's just making a mountain out of a mohill.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Remember when Kendrell Bell "passed" the Chiefs' physical....

Bell wasn't lousy because he failed a physical. He was lousy because he wasn't very good outside of Pittsburgh.

Gunther trying to turn a bullrushing 3-4 LB into a versatile 4-3 LB reeks of fail.

[milkman]

What's a mohill?

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think the point being it's not like we're talking like two players on completely different talent levels. We're talking about a better player who is going to turn 40 by the end of the season, vs. a slightly younger player who isn't a ton worse than the other guy.

If Mawae is better, it's not by a whole ton, when you factor in age. I think it's just making a mountain out of a mohill.

Unfortunately, that's where we are right now. What does it say about your franchise when people are debating whether we should have signed the 37 year old center or the 39 year old center?

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Bell wasn't lousy because he failed a physical. He was lousy because he wasn't very good outside of Pittsburgh.

Gunther trying to turn a bullrushing 3-4 LB into a versatile 4-3 LB reeks of fail.

Yeah, calling BS.

He couldn't even raise his hands over his shoulders.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by milkman

What's a mohill?

They are in the southeast part of the state.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

They are in the southeast part of the state.

Which state?

Is it anything like the town in Ireland?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Unfortunately, that's where we are right now. What does it say about your franchise when people are debating whether we should have signed the 37 year old center or the 39 year old center?

It definitely doesn't say a lot. But I think it does say a lot when people are using this as a basis to complain.

I'm more upset about passing on Dansby, Rolle, and maybe Walter. I can understand getting mad about not signing long-term options. But these guys are clearly brought in to be stopgaps.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by milkman

Which state?

Is it anything like the town in Ireland?

You may want to ask MoHillbilly.