Flowers and Hali in the running for PFF Defensive Player of the Year

[Hammock Parties]

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...le-has-landed/

2. Tamba Hali (Chiefs, +25.1)
Perhaps the best pure pass rusher in the league this year. League-leading 43 total quarterback pressures, and without a single penalty. He’s not as great in run support, but he’s good enough.

3. Brandon Flowers (Chiefs, +15.8)
So he hasn’t got an island named after himself yet, but Flowers just keeps on making plays. Yet to allow a touchdown with only 39% of passes his way completed, and has a personal passer rating against of 28.8. In 41 targets, he’s only allowed one pass of 20+ yards. Stellar.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

Casshole would have to average 246 yards passing the rest of the year to hit 3500.

Tall order.

Personally I'm waiting for the game where the wheels fall off and he tosses four picks. I know it's out there...somewhere...waiting to melt down the Planet.

He shouldn't have to.

I know there'll be games where Casshole does have to pass, play well, and carry the team to win. I just don't think that number should be anywhere near 50% of the time...

[donkhater]

I'll admit Hali turned into a better pass rusher than I thought he'd become, but best pass rusher in the league?

Using QB pressures as a measure of pass rushing ability is like using pass rating to judge a QB. All it means is that he didn't get to the QB in time. What constitutes a QB 'pressure' anyway? He was around the guy when he passed the ball?

He's a top rusher, I'll give him that. I honestly didn't think he'd be what he's become. but he hasn't turned a game around or dominated a game defensively like other top pass rushers in the league. Most feared pass rusher in the league? I doubt that.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by donkhater

I'll admit Hali turned into a better pass rusher than I thought he'd become, but best pass rusher in the league?

Using QB pressures as a measure of pass rushing ability is like using pass rating to judge a QB. All it means is that he didn't get to the QB in time. What constitutes a QB 'pressure' anyway? He was around the guy when he passed the ball?

He's a top rusher, I'll give him that. I honestly didn't think he'd be what he's become. but he hasn't turned a game around or dominated a game defensively like other top pass rushers in the league. Most feared pass rusher in the league? I doubt that.

It's not that he just gets alot of pressures. He gets a ridiculous amount of heat and hits on the QB. Boss Chiefs post from earlier says it best....


according to that site (from a well respected source), Hali has a higher combined number of sacks, pressures and hits on qbs than any teams top DUO of pass rushers in the NFL.

If that doesn't get one in the discussion for top pass rusher. I don't know what else will.

[donkhater]

Originally Posted by PGM

It's not that he just gets alot of pressures. He gets a ridiculous amount of heat and hits on the QB. Boss Chiefs post from earlier says it best....


according to that site (from a well respected source), Hali has a higher combined number of sacks, pressures and hits on qbs than any teams top DUO of pass rushers in the NFL.

If that doesn't get one in the discussion for top pass rusher. I don't know what else will.

That site also has Charles, Addai and Hillis as their Pro Bowl RB selections.

Something tells me that CJ, Foster, and McFadden might have something to say about that.

[milkman]

I've already owned my mistake on Hali, but most of my observations were when Hali was much heavier.

He lost a lot of weight, added some muscle and is much quicker now even than he was a year ago.

2 years ago and before, in a 43, at LDE, he was a huge liability in run defense.

I admit, while I was happy to get a new staff, and had been hammering ****her and Krumrie for their shortcomings, I still underestimated how much difference an actual real coach would make.

What gets me is how you useless ****ers can't ever get over your butt hurt.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by donkhater

That site also has Charles, Addai and Hillis as their Pro Bowl RB selections.

Something tells me that CJ, Foster, and McFadden might have something to say about that.

That site grades players on everything they do. Complete players get rewarded and will grade higher than guys who put up better "numbers". The actual probowl will select guys like CJ, Foster, and McFadden because of thier good "fantasy football numbers". I assume Charles, Addai, and Hillis grade higher for thier efficiency in the touches they recieve and blocking skills.

[CupidStunt]

Originally Posted by donkhater

but he hasn't turned a game around or dominated a game defensively

He dominated the 49ers and dominated the Colts. One game resulted in a lot of sacks, the other only one sack. The latter showed how important pressures are. Pressure is more important than sacking the QB. Any DC worth his salt will tell you that.

Believe this: if Hali ever gets a complimentary rusher like most of the other ends have -- Freeney/Mathis, Harrison/Woodley, the Giants -- Hali will be a 15+ sack guy. The amount of pressures he gets which would be sacks if the QB couldn't just step up or easily run to the other side is frightening. You won't see that watching those other teams. If a guy like Umenyiora puts heat on the QB from one side, you can bet your bottom dollar that Tuck is closing in on the other side, while the interior is pushing the pocket upfield.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Dane had a pretty good one (for him, not the haters) where he said he could be pretty good if he actually drops to the weight he is currently playing at.

You know whats crazy about Hali?

When he was at Penn State, he played DT until his final year iirc.

So Dane is still wrong.

Where is this magical Hali lost weight info contained? I see this thrown out there all the time as if it were a well known fact and as I have stated several times Hali said to me in person that he put on weight to play OLB in the 3-4. He didn't lose weight. Why is this considered fact around here?

Originally Posted by milkman

I've already owned my mistake on Hali, but most of my observations were when Hali was much heavier.

He lost a lot of weight, added some muscle and is much quicker now even than he was a year ago.

2 years ago and before, in a 43, at LDE, he was a huge liability in run defense.

I admit, while I was happy to get a new staff, and had been hammering ****her and Krumrie for their shortcomings, I still underestimated how much difference an actual real coach would make.

What gets me is how you useless ****ers can't ever get over your butt hurt.

No he didn't MM.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

So Dane is still wrong.

Where is this magical Hali lost weight info contained? I see this thrown out there all the time as if it were a well known fact and as I have stated several times Hali said to me in person that he put on weight to play OLB in the 3-4. He didn't lose weight. Why is this considered fact around here?



No he didn't MM.

Let me rephrase that.
He lost fat and gained muscle.

He's leaner and sleeker.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by milkman

Let me rephrase that.
He lost fat and gained muscle.

He's leaner and sleeker.

Very possible.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

So Dane is still wrong.

Where is this magical Hali lost weight info contained? I see this thrown out there all the time as if it were a well known fact and as I have stated several times Hali said to me in person that he put on weight to play OLB in the 3-4. He didn't lose weight. Why is this considered fact around here?



No he didn't MM.

Yes he did

[Sannyasi]

Originally Posted by milkman

I've already owned my mistake on Hali, but most of my observations were when Hali was much heavier.

He lost a lot of weight, added some muscle and is much quicker now even than he was a year ago.

2 years ago and before, in a 43, at LDE, he was a huge liability in run defense.

I admit, while I was happy to get a new staff, and had been hammering ****her and Krumrie for their shortcomings, I still underestimated how much difference an actual real coach would make.

What gets me is how you useless ****ers can't ever get over your butt hurt.

No kidding. I never realized the Planet had such a persecution complex. Its ****ing pathetic.

This coming from Go Chiefs is especially ironic though. I suppose someone could make a thread summarizing all of the shit that he has been wrong about, but I think the server is probably strained enough as it is.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Yes he did

Look I am not going to argue this all day. Find some evidence that will cause me to believe that he lied to me and I will change my thoughts on the matter.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Look I am not going to argue this all day. Find some evidence that will cause me to believe that he lied to me and I will change my thoughts on the matter.

Contrary to popular belief, they don't hold a public weigh-in every 6 months.

There is no evidence or even close to anything to suggest that the claim is true, except for the fact that he's twice as quick off the edge, his head looks smaller, his body looks leaner, he was part of a massive team weight loss program in year 1, and he is succeeding at a position where speed is a lot more important than the bullrushing he used to do in a 4-3. Other than that, there is nothing to even remotely suggest that he's lost weight and gotten leaner.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by donkhater

I'll admit Hali turned into a better pass rusher than I thought he'd become, but best pass rusher in the league?

Using QB pressures as a measure of pass rushing ability is like using pass rating to judge a QB. All it means is that he didn't get to the QB in time. What constitutes a QB 'pressure' anyway? He was around the guy when he passed the ball?

He's a top rusher, I'll give him that. I honestly didn't think he'd be what he's become. but he hasn't turned a game around or dominated a game defensively like other top pass rushers in the league. Most feared pass rusher in the league? I doubt that.

Are you for real?

He completely dominated that San Fran front and was a big reason we ran away with that game.

He still doesn't have quite the pieces around him that other guys like Ware and such have, i.e. a complimentary rusher. I remember a stat from a few years ago when Merriman was still considered a top guy that he had more sacks from other guys pressure moving the QB to him than anyone.

Simply going off of sacks doesn't tell you much. If the guy isn't getting around the QB all the time and just gets a sack here and there he isn't causing the disruption you want from your pass rushers either.

This board overrates the actual sack and underrates everything else because most of the people here underrate Hali.

As far as his weight loss/weight gain thing, I have no idea. However I do know that he LOOKS different than years past. More muscular and leaner. He very well could be heavier but have done it through more mass gain while also shedding some bodyfat. Either way, his stouter at the point against the run and that elusive step that people complained about is suddenly there, and I don't think it's a coincidence that his physique also looks very different now too. Fat is not a friend of speed. Maybe Hali had that step all along, but was just carrying too much fat at the time. This is very possible.