Chiefs Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise - Page 6

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:29 PM

Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections.

This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle.

What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning.

1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed.

2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one.

3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki.

4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone.

5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep.

6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake.

Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players.

Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach.

New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play.

Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

So you think if we just got a NT Jackson and Dorsey would be pressuring the QB more?

Laughable isn't it?

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Not always.

You don't expect your 3-4 ends in this kind of defense to provide much of a pass rush.

Dorsey and Jackson aren't doing it in ANY defensive scheme so switching to a 4-3 is a horrible idea.

Dorsey and Jackson both came from 4-3 defenses where they were good.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

how many passing yards have we given up to no-name TE's this year? You ****ing idiot.

And it's all Belcher's fault? No ****ing way.

I want to hear the 4-3 argument that isn't based around the fraudulent notion that Dorsey and Jackson can play DT in that scheme.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Dorsey and Jackson both came from 4-3 defenses where they were good.

Yeah, I don't really care. Jackson played DE in college. Nobody with any modicum of football sense has that guy playing 4-3 DE in KC.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

And it's all Belcher's fault? No ****ing way.

I want to hear the 4-3 argument that isn't based around the fraudulent notion that Dorsey and Jackson can play DT in that scheme.

What position did they play in college?

ChiefsCountry · 12-12-2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

And it's all Belcher's fault? No ****ing way.

I want to hear the 4-3 argument that isn't based around the fraudulent notion that Dorsey and Jackson can play DT in that scheme.

Dorsey can be a 4-3 DT. Jackson can't.

CoMoChief · 12-12-2011, 08:00 PM

Well there are many things the chiefs need to do to right the ship

1. Get a good experienced HC....someone who knows how to treat its players and knows how to operate a team and prepare for Sundays.

2. Get healthy

3. QB (get a good backup too, Orton prob won't be here next season)

4. OL + depth

5. DL + depth

6. Safety depth

CUTS: Richardson, Jereme Urban, McGraw, Piscatelli, OConnell, Pope, Cassel, Palko, Weigman, Greenwood, Langford, D.Williams

O.city · 12-12-2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

So you think if we just got a NT Jackson and Dorsey would be pressuring the QB more?

Theoretically yes.

I actually think if Jackson continues to develop on this course he could be a 3 or 4 sack a year guy. Maybe less maybe more.

The key to this defense is having a solid run stuffing NT.

I'm more concerned that our GM of the century hasn't figured that out yet.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Yeah, I don't really care. Jackson played DE in college. Nobody with any modicum of football sense has that guy playing 4-3 DE in KC.

Obviously because he is doing such a stellar job in the 3-4.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 08:02 PM

Seriously, you want to play two 300-pounders at DT in a 4-3.

With Hali and Houston at end.

Way to set the defense back three years.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Theoretically yes.

I actually think if Jackson continues to develop on this course he could be a 3 or 4 sack a year guy. Maybe less maybe more.

The key to this defense is having a solid run stuffing NT.

I'm more concerned that our GM of the century hasn't figured that out yet.

I agree a good NT will make the entire Dline better., I still think Dorsey has more potential than Jackson at making the switch to a 3-4. Jackson gets his shit stuffed too much for me. Maybe we are starting to see signs and maybe you are right. I hope so beause I don't see them replacing him anytime soon.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Obviously because he is doing such a stellar job in the 3-4.

He's been a rock against the run. He's doing a good job.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-12-2011, 08:03 PM

Jackson is a left in a 4-3, and a two-down player at that. Basically, exactly what he is in this scheme. I don't think that talent evaluators were wrong when they said that Dorsey could play the three technique, but when your job is to occupy and scrape, you aren't going to be shooting gaps.

I still think that this team would do well to be a little more exotic in passing situations. Move Dorsey and Gilberry inside, and rush Houston and Hali off the edges.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Well there are many things the chiefs need to do to right the ship

1. Get a good experienced HC....someone who knows how to treat its players and knows how to operate a team and prepare for Sundays.

2. Get healthy

3. QB (get a good backup too, Orton prob won't be here next season)

4. OL + depth

5. DL + depth

6. Safety depth

CUTS: Richardson, Jereme Urban, McGraw, Piscatelli, OConnell, Pope, Cassel, Palko, Weigman, Greenwood, Langford, D.Williams

I'd keep McGraw simply for depth. Not the ideal starter but good on special teams and a decent reserve for the money.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 08:04 PM

Jackson's run defense is rated higher than Brett Keisel's, but you think he gets pushed around a lot.

Uh, no.

12-12-2011, 06:29 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1065873	Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections. This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle. What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning. 1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed. 2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one. 3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki. 4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone. 5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep. 6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake. Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players. Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach. New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play. Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.
Posts: 132,470

12-12-2011, 08:00 PM	#82
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7672254	Well there are many things the chiefs need to do to right the ship 1. Get a good experienced HC....someone who knows how to treat its players and knows how to operate a team and prepare for Sundays. 2. Get healthy 3. QB (get a good backup too, Orton prob won't be here next season) 4. OL + depth 5. DL + depth 6. Safety depth CUTS: Richardson, Jereme Urban, McGraw, Piscatelli, OConnell, Pope, Cassel, Palko, Weigman, Greenwood, Langford, D.Williams
Posts: 39,245

12-12-2011, 08:02 PM	#85
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	Seriously, you want to play two 300-pounders at DT in a 4-3. With Hali and Houston at end. Way to set the defense back three years. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,328

12-12-2011, 08:03 PM	#88
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7149572	Jackson is a left in a 4-3, and a two-down player at that. Basically, exactly what he is in this scheme. I don't think that talent evaluators were wrong when they said that Dorsey could play the three technique, but when your job is to occupy and scrape, you aren't going to be shooting gaps. I still think that this team would do well to be a little more exotic in passing situations. Move Dorsey and Gilberry inside, and rush Houston and Hali off the edges. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

12-12-2011, 08:04 PM	#90
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	Jackson's run defense is rated higher than Brett Keisel's, but you think he gets pushed around a lot. Uh, no. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,328