Why I support Todd Haley

[chiefzilla1501]

I know this is going to get me shit. Fire away.

• If it's true that Haley pushed back on Tyson Jackson, that tells you everything you need to know. Scott Pioli did NOT build a team around his head coach. He forced his coach to run the only system he knows. Know why Haley called Jackson a "system player"? Because Tyson Jackson is only a 3-4 DE in a 2-gap, Romeo 3-4. Does any NFL team run this defense anymore? Even the Patriots don't.

• Case study. What defense is Thomas Dimitroff running in Atlanta? You guessed it. A 4-3. That's because good GMs adjust their philosophy to fit the coach.

• Look at the new candidates for head coach. It's going to be from the tree. You know how I know that? 1) because Pioli has shown croneyism this entire time. 2) because he is so stuck on one offensive and defensive philosophy that he needs to hire a coach who follows his marching orders.

• Not only should we question if the 2-gap 3-4 defense is obsolete. We have to question why Pioli would expect Haley to make a complete transition to a new defense requiring totally different personnel and turn that around in 3 years.

• How about the obvious? Pioli is the guy who scouted Cassel for years and believed he was the long-term starter. In 3 years, the only QBs he brought in to compete for the starting job were Tyler Palko (probably Haley's choice, but that doesn't mean Pioli didn't have the power to bring a competitive veteran option in) and a 5th round pick he waited 3 years to bring in. Fail.

• How about the second-most obvious? Pioli forced Haley to run a 3-4 and didn't in 3 years even try to bring in a Nose Tackle.

• People may get on Haley's case for not getting along with Charlie Weis. It sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start and credit Whitlock for being the only guy to figure that out. Pioli has ultimate say, but if Haley flat-out didn't want to work with the guy, then don't bring him in. Pioli has to have at least some consideration for what Haley wants. And now, because of that, haley ends up looking like the asshole.

• The Chiefs are finding a convenient time to fire Haley because people hate the Palko decision. First of all, his choice was Palko or a 5th round rookie. Second of all, it sounds like haley's job was pretty much gone well before Palko started a game. So no... not convinced at all that Haley starts Palko if he knows his job is safe. I wouldn't even be surprised if that was just a big **** you after a while.

• In 3 years, Scott Pioli forces Haley to completely change his defense and doesn't spend a dime to help him out.
  People say the Chiefs' effort was inconsistent. I call bullshit. This team had so many talent gaps that the only way they could win was with effort. Given the Chiefs' talent, especially at the most critical positions, it's amazing they won as many games the past 2 years as they did. You give Haley the Chargers' talent, and he takes them to the top. Not every team is going to play 100% every single game. The difference is that the best teams have enough talent that they can win even when the other team outplays them.

• The Chiefs brought in Kyle Orton. I was okay with that move as a 1-2 year decision. But let's be serious about one thing... that's a pretty telltale sign that Pioli is bringing in McDaniels.

• Haley's job was to coach up players. Many players under his watch who had any kind of upside really improved.

• I don't like the snake-like tactics we're seeing from our front office. It sounds like they were leaking stories about Haley to discredit him. Between the Lil Wayne concert and the party before the Bears game (after a win, mind you).
  We've seen firey Haley before. Even with big efforts in Chicago and Pittsburgh, it looked like he just didn't have any fire. I think he knew he was through and the front office was just waiting for a chance to fire him.

• He's a young coach. He's going to make mistakes. The beginning of the season was a horrible mistake. But that's not one mistake that should get you fired.

Flame away. I want to know... if the GM let Haley run a defense he wanted to run, have some input on his coordinator, actually gave Haley good QBs to work with... how would we have fared? And how comfortable do people feel that the grand vision for this team as long as Pioli is here is this exact New England approach that even New England isn't using anymore?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I look at the offense and outside of Cassel I see Haley's fingerprints all over it.

Oh yeah? Is that why he shifted to a run-heavy, control the clock offense after running a wide open, aerial, run the ball infrequently offense in Arizona?

The talent on the offense is there in DROVES. The fact that one QB can make the talent look that bad is speaking volumes.

And again, it is largely the QB. The QB is the one missing open guys on the field. He's the guy not spotting the blitz or finding the hot read. And we have two grade A QBs coaches who can't fix him.

[griZZly64]

I'm very disappointed that Haley has been fired. I had all the confidence in the world in him.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Oh yeah? Is that why he shifted to a run-heavy, control the clock offense after running a wide open, aerial, run the ball infrequently offense in Arizona?

The talent on the offense is there in DROVES. The fact that one QB can make the talent look that bad is speaking volumes.

And again, it is largely the QB. The QB is the one missing open guys on the field. He's the guy not spotting the blitz or finding the hot read. And we have two grade A QBs coaches who can't fix him.

If my eyes aren't deceiving me it seems they run mostly 3 wide out sets the majority of the time. I doubt signing Breaston was Pioli's idea do you?

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

[LIST]People may get on Haley's case for not getting along with Charlie Weis. It sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start and credit Whitlock for being the only guy to figure that out. Pioli has ultimate say, but if Haley flat-out didn't want to work with the guy, then don't bring him in. Pioli has to have at least some consideration for what Haley wants. And now, because of that, haley ends up looking like the asshole.

It was total bullshit from the start. When Haley signed on, Pioli said Todd would have complete control over his staff. Year two, forces a guy on him. I don't care if Haley liked Weis or not. On principle, Haley had every right to be pissed off. Weis fled b/c, as the truth has come to show, he was a bitch. Then Haley probably still wants to call the plays himself, and Pioli says "No!, **** No! You have to hire someone, so do it already!" So Haley come back with a big **** YOU and hires Muir...

[DTLB58]

Originally Posted by Papi

I had no large issues with Haley until he refused to give Palko the hook.
Sticking with that turd and not playing Stanzi < a kick in the nuts
Eff him.

Bingo

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

If my eyes aren't deceiving me it seems they run mostly 3 wide out sets the majority of the time. I doubt signing Breaston was Pioli's idea do you?

A fair point.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by DTLB58

Bingo

...and if he doesn't play the final three games? You don't think Pioli believe in sitting QB's for at LEAST one year. After hitting with Brady and Brady being on the inactive list his entire rookie season?

[JD10367]

You all keep mentioning "the Patriot Way". Even as a Patriot fan, I don't know what the **** you're all talking about. "The Patriot Way" has been simple: 1) don't be a selfish teammate, and 2) try to snag value by picking up second-tier players and make them stars by letting them do what they do best (e.g. Vrabel, Welker). But it's also involved 3) having a future HOF QB and 4) not firing your coach after a rocky start. Those are two key pieces. The Chiefs were missing #3, and they just broke #4.

I really can't fault Haley. Sure, he's a bit immature. He needs more seasoning. He could probably use some coordinator help (and, by that, I mean a coordinator he won't want to kill, a la Weis). Some of his decisions are a bit questionable. But I think he has potential, and I think he's going to be a very good HC in the NFL. And I'm not sure there's anyone waiting in the wings who would do better. Gruden, perhaps, or Cowher, but I'm not even sure a Fisher is going to do any better... and you can do a lot worse (McDaniels, Norv Turner, etc.,.). For the Chiefs, it's all going to depend on who they bring in: if it's a Gruden, then firing Haley won't hurt them, but if it's a McDaniel's, you're screwed.

[kcxiv]

Im on Zilla's side here. WHile i understand why Haley got fired. I would have rather seen Clark fire them both. Haley stood no chance. We were in quite a few o the blow out loses til the 2nd half when the Defense just had no more to give.

It just sucks right now, but this is the Chiefs franchise and its all we know. lol. As long as i been a Chiefs fan 20 years now, its been pretty much all fail. Had some almosts in there, but almosts dont count.

[Papi]

Originally Posted by aturnis

...and if he doesn't play the final three games? You don't think Pioli believe in sitting QB's for at LEAST one year. After hitting with Brady and Brady being on the inactive list his entire rookie season?

He probably won't play in the final three games. But he's seen enough from the bench now, might as well give the kid some experience sooner than later. In the end every player is thrown to the wolves... sink or swim

[notorious]

This forum has gone 100% batshit crazy.

It has a very odd feeling to it.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by notorious

This forum has gone 100% batshit crazy.

It has a very odd feeling to it.

Im only surprised it took this damned long. it took 42 years of suck.

[whoman69]

Pioli has done a lot of damage and worked to undermine his coach when he should have been working with him. He continues to undermine him even after he was gone. Petty, trying to make himself look better.

There are two parts to our defensive fail, the obvious personnel issues and the lack of offensive production to keep the defense off the field. We should have a NT by now after three years. There's also no reason our depth should be that poor with $30 million cap space.

I think its pretty clear that Pioli forced coaches on Haley. I think its pretty clear Pioli forced Cassel on Haley. Its negligent this team should have come into the season with Tyler Palko as the number 2 option with a rookie 5th rounder.

Haley made a lot of players on this team better, players that showed nothing with Herm before him. That was probably his strength. He supposedly asked the coaches around him on input about preparing for this season. He took a shot and failed horribly.

I could care less if Haley is yelling at Cassel. Finally got him on track for awhile. What I could never get was his dogged defense of Palko and Richardson. If you're saying you're going to play the people who give you the best chance to win there's no way either of them should have seen the field. If it means putting Gaither at LT and moving Albert then that's what's best for the team. If it means pulling Palko for Stanzi, at least we're seeing what we got.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Orton signals McDaniels? Hmm. Seems that McDaniels liked Cassel even more. And, I mean, you were talking about how much better Orton was.... and how now Haley would be able to show how good he was with a real QB.

Toddler Haley is gone. Don't worry, you are the classic homer and will be singing the praises of any coach/QB they have next year. Much like Orton got a lot better once he was with the Chiefs.

[Hammock Parties]

There is 0 chance we hire McDaniels.

We just dumped a screaming, childish idiot because he reflected poorly on the organization.

Now we're going to hire "WE'RE JUST TRYING TO WIN A MOTHER****ING GAME?"

No.