Chiefs I owe Kyle Orton an apology... - Page 9

htismaqe · 12-18-2011, 03:42 PM

and quite a few people here should be doling them out as well...

Leonard Pope? Big catches. Barry Richardson? Nice job.

Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...

Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way.

Yeah, I wanted to see Stanzi play and I still do.

But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...

mcan · 12-18-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Why would the previous regime SCHEME to punish a blitz when the QB simply couldn't do it?

I think Haley believes he is a WR genius, and wanted to be successful running the same kinds of routes that he ran in Arizona, no matter what. I don't believe Haley ever wanted to run a traditional "you better not blitz us or we're gonna dink and dunk some screens down your throat" offense. He was trying to be flashy, with max protect and routes that call for wrs to run squiggles down the field. If you can block it for long enough, you can hit some guys deep (Fitzgerald style). But if you can't, you have to let the ball go early, and the receivers have to cut off their routes mid squiggle. (hence you get a qb with an average completion of like 6 yards per attempt, and a BUNCH of interceptions where the receiver ran the wrong route).

Valiant · 12-18-2011, 04:59 PM

Orton played great. But ground ourselves. Gb is one of the worst d's giving up yards.

The best goes to the def today. Amazing job.

I don't want any part of mcdaniels. I have hope for next season.
Twas great seeing a qb actually play fter the past 2+ seasons.

threebag · 12-18-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

Cassel would have had similar success...

WTF??? Really...NO ****ING WAY

htismaqe · 12-18-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcan

I think Haley believes he is a WR genius, and wanted to be successful running the same kinds of routes that he ran in Arizona, no matter what. I don't believe Haley ever wanted to run a traditional "you better not blitz us or we're gonna dink and dunk some screens down your throat" offense. He was trying to be flashy, with max protect and routes that call for wrs to run squiggles down the field. If you can block it for long enough, you can hit some guys deep (Fitzgerald style). But if you can't, you have to let the ball go early, and the receivers have to cut off their routes mid squiggle. (hence you get a qb with an average completion of like 6 yards per attempt, and a BUNCH of interceptions where the receiver ran the wrong route).

We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

Valiant · 12-18-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

It shoud never happen. Haley looks like such a fool today. He is lucky that Cassel got injured.

Cassel would have had similar success and then everyone would know it was all Haley.

But, at least now, some can try to argue that it was Cassel.

And, that isn't me thinking Cassel is great... it is me just realizing that Haley is awful.

About time someone corrected your name.

Frosty · 12-18-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

The Chiefs haven't been able to run a screen worth a shit over the last three years (actually not since Green was QB). The difference today was shocking.

How anyone could have watched the game today and not seen a completely different Chiefs team is beyond me. The QB position is that important.

**dirk digler** · 12-18-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

I don't remember the Chiefs running many screens with Cassel and RB's. The last ones I can remember were the one he threw an INT and the following week he threw it in the dirt.

mcan · 12-18-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

On the first point, I don't remember any traditional screens being run all year, where the linemen chipped their man, then got outside to lead block for a back who leaked into the flat. We haven't even thrown but a handful of flare routes or swing passes all year. At least I don't remember them. Even the infamous interception against San Diego came off of a play action, which is maybe the DUMBEST thing you can do. you don't screen off a play action pass. Here, let me fake it to you, so that everybody will surround you, then I'll throw it to you now that you have no momentum and there are dudes all over you... Just another example of Haley being a cancer to this offense, that was only growing, and needed to be surgically removed.

As for your second point, Cassel not making good presnap reads. Yeah, that i agree with. Cassel isn't even adept enough to know when the team is lined up incorrectly. At least today, I saw Orton tell Breaston to get his ass of the line of scrimmage, then proceeded to hit him over the middle for a first down on the same play.

htismaqe · 12-18-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I don't remember the Chiefs running many screens with Cassel and RB's. The last ones I can remember were the one he threw an INT and the following week he threw it in the dirt.

The Minnesota "grounding" play - we ran that one today and it actually worked because Orton saw McClain.

I was at the game against Minnesota and McClain was WIDE open. Cassel never even looked his direction.

You can't run misdirection or motion plays when your QB can't read a defense.

FAX · 12-18-2011, 05:15 PM

I just wish I hadn't missed 99.9 percent of this game.

Sounds like it was a good one.

FAX

**dirk digler** · 12-18-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The Minnesota "grounding" play - we ran that one today and it actually worked because Orton saw McClain.

I was at the game against Minnesota and McClain was WIDE open. Cassel never even looked his direction.

You can't run misdirection or motion plays when your QB can't read a defense.

lol I take your word for it. Cassel is so horrible he can't find his screen man.

**Baby Lee** · 12-18-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

AND quick snaps, AND hits the WR with a snappy pass IN stride.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-18-2011, 05:26 PM

If anything, you hope that Orton has driven a stake in Cassel's heart, but again, being significantly better than Matt Cassel does not mean you're good enough.

At this point, the team might as well drop the hammer, try and add depth through FA this year, and do absolutely everything they can with every pick in this draft to trade up.

**Dave Lane** · 12-18-2011, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Hence, why I stated that signing Orton could signal the end of the Cassel era in KC.

And the beginning of a new era of mediocrity. Yay?

crossbow · 12-18-2011, 05:34 PM

Why are we arguing over this? Cassel isn't a starting caliber QB and Orton is. Orton just may be inconsistent which is one of the big differences between a solid player and a great one.

Orton has 7 years of starting experience and it shows. Matt never started in college and only did so in the pros for what 3 years total and it shows. OK, so Matt got screwed by the disorganized Haley play calling - too bad but he still can't make the throws that Orton can.

12-18-2011, 03:42 PM
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8099900	I owe Kyle Orton an apology... and quite a few people here should be doling them out as well... Leonard Pope? Big catches. Barry Richardson? Nice job. Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)... Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way. Yeah, I wanted to see Stanzi play and I still do. But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...
Posts: 104,421

12-18-2011, 04:59 PM	#122
Valiant Valiant 'The Thread Killer' Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $4522380	Orton played great. But ground ourselves. Gb is one of the worst d's giving up yards. The best goes to the def today. Amazing job. I don't want any part of mcdaniels. I have hope for next season. Twas great seeing a qb actually play fter the past 2+ seasons.
Posts: 18,558

12-18-2011, 05:15 PM	#130
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	I just wish I hadn't missed 99.9 percent of this game. Sounds like it was a good one. FAX
Posts: 44,492

12-18-2011, 05:26 PM	#133
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	If anything, you hope that Orton has driven a stake in Cassel's heart, but again, being significantly better than Matt Cassel does not mean you're good enough. At this point, the team might as well drop the hammer, try and add depth through FA this year, and do absolutely everything they can with every pick in this draft to trade up. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

12-18-2011, 05:34 PM	#135
crossbow King of Sarcasm Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: at home Casino cash: $10004900	Why are we arguing over this? Cassel isn't a starting caliber QB and Orton is. Orton just may be inconsistent which is one of the big differences between a solid player and a great one. Orton has 7 years of starting experience and it shows. Matt never started in college and only did so in the pros for what 3 years total and it shows. OK, so Matt got screwed by the disorganized Haley play calling - too bad but he still can't make the throws that Orton can.
Posts: 2,159