I owe Kyle Orton an apology...

[htismaqe]

and quite a few people here should be doling them out as well...

Leonard Pope? Big catches. Barry Richardson? Nice job.

Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...

Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way.

Yeah, I wanted to see Stanzi play and I still do.

But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...

[mcan]

I do think senseless is right in that getting rid of haley and letting these coaches do their thing is the #1 (by far) reason we won today's game. I would also be curious if Cassel were playing in a well organized, well prepared, well schemed offense, if he wouldn't be as good as Orton was today in terms of making throws and looking successful. There really isn't a great way to answer those questions, so I look at the intangibles. Orton hasn't showed me in his limited time here that he has many, but I was SICK to death of the "too many men on the line" and "tackle was uncovered" or "2 men moving at the snap" or "illegal shift" penalties that seemed to just rack up while Cassel was under center. Now, they also racked up under Palko, BUT at least today, like I mentioned earlier, when Breaston was on the line, covering the TE (illegal), at least Orton had the presence of mind to say, "hey douchebag, back up a little" and wave him back.

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

People act like Orton threw 5 TDs today.

Didn't he throw 20?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by scott free

If i didnt know better, i'd swear on my life that you're joking.

It doesn't matter. In the end, neither he or Cassel are good enough. The difference is that I think Cassel is better than Orton.

Reality, it is like arguing the best way to die. None are good. I just think Cassel is less bad.

Over the history of the two players, Cassel has had a better careeer. But, it is really an insignificant point given the mediocrity of both players.

BTW: Orton has three games to get his next contract. I imagine we will see his best effort over these three games.

It will be interesting to see if he takes a step back after he gets his new contract.

[threebag]

JFC there is no way in hell Matt Cassel contributes to defeat the Pack. Get ****ing Real.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by mcan

I do think senseless is right in that getting rid of haley and letting these coaches do their thing is the #1 (by far) reason we won today's game. I would also be curious if Cassel were playing in a well organized, well prepared, well schemed offense, if he wouldn't be as good as Orton was today in terms of making throws and looking successful. There really isn't a great way to answer those questions, so I look at the intangibles. Orton hasn't showed me in his limited time here that he has many, but I was SICK to death of the "too many men on the line" and "tackle was uncovered" or "2 men moving at the snap" or "illegal shift" penalties that seemed to just rack up while Cassel was under center. Now, they also racked up under Palko, BUT at least today, like I mentioned earlier, when Breaston was on the line, covering the TE (illegal), at least Orton had the presence of mind to say, "hey douchebag, back up a little" and wave him back.

It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

[threebag]

I guess I was wrong Matt did the best thing he could to help this squad.



He was standing on the ****ing sideline.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by threebag02

JFC there is no way in hell Matt Cassel contributes to defeat the Pack. Get ****ing Real.

Not under Haley, that is for sure.

The funny part is that we didn't get to see how Orton worked with Haley.

So much of a QB's success is the relationship with the head coach/offensive coordinator.

I think that Haley may have worked better with Orton than with Cassel. But, I also think that Cassel would work with other HC's and offensive coordinators than Haley.

[threebag]

Cassel arm strength/accuracy < Orton arm strength/accuracy. PERIOD.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

The offense was actually quite a bit different. It allowed the QB to have more time and give the WR's more time to get open.

I am kind of sick of arguing.

Cassel isn't great, he just isn't as bad as the guys on here think.

And, forgive me for not wanting to change my opinion of Orton after one game against a bad defense.

I have seen Orton for five years. One year doesn't completely change history.

Cassel is awful at selling playaction fakes
He sells the screen way too soon whereas orton coolly waits for it to develop. He also has absolutely no touch--the screen recipient always has to reach high to gnab it
Orton for the most part was on target all day whereas cassel is far too inaccurate for a starting qb
In almost every game in his career, cassel has taken about 2 quarters to warm up. Orton was great from the get go
Orton scans the entire field. Cassel panics when the primary read is off. Then he usually checks down.
Saw orton in the pre snap actually making adjustments. Case in point... First pass of the game, blitz came left and he immediately gunned it to the hot route
The oline was significantly better because orton was punishing gb when they chose to blitz. That's what good qbs do. Cassel does not.

Name one thing cassel does better than orton? Because I can't think of a single thing. Both have no track record of clutch play. Orton throws a better deep ball. He throws a more accurate ball. He actually reads defenses pre snaps. He has a much better feel for the position like selling play fakes, having the recognition to run a quick count on a wr screen, etc...Tell me ONE THING.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

This is true. I'm just doing my best to be objective. At no time during Cassel's tenure here so far did I ever see him do anything that made me think he was in control of his offense or team, or was a genuine leader or had any football presence. I like telling the story of Trent Green during his first game as a Chief back in 2001. We lost that game to the Raiders, but on our last offensive possession (you might remember Snoop Minnis laying out and catching that TD), there was a play where Trent rolled to his right on a 4th down and short. TRich was open and waving his hands at the marker, but there was a linebacker about to hit him in the back when the ball go there. Trent pointed to the linebacker as he ran and TRich turned and put that linebacker on his butt, allowing trent to scramble for the first. When I saw that play, I knew the Chiefs had somebody special. It takes a good QB to make that throw on the run, and GREAT fullback to catch that ball cleanly while being hit in the back... It takes a GREAT QB to NOT throw that ball, and a genuine leader to actually POINT to the guy he wanted blocked.

Of course, that year Trent became known as TrInt, and his numbers weren't that great. But there were CLEARLY intangibles that made me certain that if we stuck with this guy, we would have an amazing offense.

In his 3 years here, I have yet to see Cassel do anything on the field that has given me a similar feeling. So, even if Orton isn't any better, I don't have a problem with Cassel getting the boot. No problems at all.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SenselessChiefsFan

It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

That wasn't a problem last year. Matt still showed no ability to make pre snap adjustments, find a 2nd or 3rd target, or throw an accurate ball and he was one of the worst in the NFL at throwing a deep ball.

And this is cinsidering that defenses were throwing 8 in a box loading up against the run. That's a qbs wet dream.

[threebag]

One thing Cassel robs this team more with payroll.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by mcan

This is true. I'm just doing my best to be objective. At no time during Cassel's tenure here so far did I ever see him do anything that made me think he was in control of his offense or team, or was a genuine leader or had any football presence. I like telling the story of Trent Green during his first game as a Chief back in 2001. We lost that game to the Raiders, but on our last offensive possession (you might remember Snoop Minnis laying out and catching that TD), there was a play where Trent rolled to his right on a 4th down and short. TRich was open and waving his hands at the marker, but there was a linebacker about to hit him in the back when the ball go there. Trent pointed to the linebacker as he ran and TRich turned and put that linebacker on his butt, allowing trent to scramble for the first. When I saw that play, I knew the Chiefs had somebody special. It takes a good QB to make that throw on the run, and GREAT fullback to catch that ball cleanly while being hit in the back... It takes a GREAT QB to NOT throw that ball, and a genuine leader to actually POINT to the guy he wanted blocked.

Of course, that year Trent became known as TrInt, and his numbers weren't that great. But there were CLEARLY intangibles that made me certain that if we stuck with this guy, we would have an amazing offense.

In his 3 years here, I have yet to see Cassel do anything on the field that has given me a similar feeling. So, even if Orton isn't any better, I don't have a problem with Cassel getting the boot. No problems at all.

I saw Cassel changing some things up last year and lining guys up correctly on the line.

I don't have a problem with Cassel being gone as well. I just think that Orton isn't any better, and in the long run will prove to be worse.

But, I have stated that the Chiefs should draft a QB this year. Of course, now that Haley is gone, the Chiefs will probably win out and lose the opportunity to get one of the top three.

I fully expect the Chiefs to trade down this year.

[Brock]

I saw Cassel taking too long to line guys up correctly and throwing a pussyfit when he had to call a timeout.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Name one thing cassel does better than orton? Because I can't think of a single thing. Both have no track record of clutch play. Orton throws a better deep ball. He throws a more accurate ball. He actually reads defenses pre snaps. He has a much better feel for the position like selling play fakes, having the recognition to run a quick count on a wr screen, etc...Tell me ONE THING.

Putting up moderately impressive TD/INT numbers against the easiest schedule in the league, using a customized game plan to minimize mistakes and make ultra-safe passes.