Better Than Geno - Page 3

Direckshun · 02-24-2013, 03:36 PM

Making the decision to draft Geno Smith means you probably have to ask yourself two questions.

Initially, we ask ourselves whether Geno Smith is the best player in this draft.

If you believe that he is, that's on you and the Yellow Submarine you came in on.

For the rest of us (which I think has to be the vast majority), the answer's no.

So the two step question:

1. Which players are better than Geno Smith in this draft?

and

2. Are you comfortable passing over them for Geno Smith?

Now, to me, this is the comprehensive list of players I think are better than Geno, everything being equal (including positional value):

1. OT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M
2. DE/OLB Bjoern Werner, Florida State
3. DE/OLB Damontre Moore, Texas A&M
4. DE/DT Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
5. DT Star Lotulelei, Utah
6. OT Eric Fisher, Central Michigan
7. CB DeMarcus Milliner, Alabama
8. OT Lane Johnson, Oklahoma
9. DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State
10. OG Chance Warmack, Alabama
11. CB Johnathan Banks, Mississippi State
12. DE/OLB Dion Jordan, Oregon
13. S Kenny Vaccaro, Texas

(Incidentally, of course, that's my big board.)

Are you comfortable passing over this much talent for Geno Smith? Any one player on this list could be a Chief. There is no obstruction between them and our roster.

I think that's a tall order for Geno to have to overcome. The argument of reaching for a QB over Hankins and Lane Johnson is tough enough. You're also asking the Chiefs ignore the very best this year has to offer in elite talent like Joeckel and Lotulelei (and players who are likely to end up as choice favorites of any number of coaches, like Sheldon Richardson).

Hog's Gone Fishin · 02-24-2013, 04:10 PM

The fact is : QB is our weakest position. Geno would be an upgrade, as well as about 5 other rookie QBs. I still think Dorsey goes after the best talent ,surest pick at #1 if that's where we stay but IMO the logical choice is to trade down with Arizona / Buffalo and take Fisher and then come back and get Wilson or Manuel at 34. I do have a hardon for tavon Austin especially after today but he's not a big need other than giving us a punt returner.

O.city · 02-24-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

In my OP, I totally ignored positional value. So there's that.

I think people are getting too much of a confirmation bias with Geno. A bunch of folks watch his highlights but ignore the score of lowlights he has up. For every brilliant game, there's games where the offense collapses. For every great throw, there's a pass that falls five yards out of bounds.

I really like Geno and like everybody else, I'm starved for a QB and I want us to draft one.

But this fanbase is getting its hopes up waaaaay too high on this guy.

Oh he's in no means a perfect prospect. The rhetoric on him around here is a bit much at times, but I really don't mind it. This franchise has shit on us overa nd over in terms of QB play, so I get it.

But I think last years class has hurt him, his system has hurt him, and things he's actually had control on have hurt him.

I may be putting way too much into todays numbers, but I am actually a bit blown away by his combine numbers and I'm starting to think he wasn't used very well at WVU.

KCrockaholic · 02-24-2013, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Yup. But give him a full season in NFL strength and conditioning.

Some info is coming out on him soon that you might not like. Secondroundstats is working on it. Will probably be posted tonight actually.

O.city · 02-24-2013, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

And the Browns are a perfect example of taking QBs in the 1st round with huge question marks, over and over and over again.

I don't want us to be the Browns.

Eh, at this point, we are worse than the Browns.

And the Browns never had Reid grooming said QB.

Direckshun · 02-24-2013, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

Some info is coming out on him soon that you might not like. Secondroundstats is working on it. Will probably be posted tonight actually.

Hmmm.

**the Talking Can** · 02-24-2013, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

And the Browns are a perfect example of taking QBs in the 1st round with huge question marks, over and over and over again.

I don't want us to be the Browns.

we are worse than the browns...

and at least they're trying...we don't even try, haven't for decades

you'd pass on that QB from Delaware for 'value' every time...you've got a recipe for nowhere

it's like you've learned nothing for the last 30 years

htismaqe · 02-24-2013, 04:26 PM

Geno Smith is the player in this draft that will have the greatest impact on his team.

He's the clear choice and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

O.city · 02-24-2013, 04:28 PM

As we've talked about recently on here, I also don't think with the new rule changes etc you have to have what you did say 5 or 6 years ago at Qb to win.

I don't think it's takes Elite at that spot, rather just good/great.

He had a great playoff run but no way am I putting Joe Flacco as elite. Against probably most opinions, wouldn't say Eli is either.

It just doesn't take Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers anymore. They are multipliers yes, but I don't think it's quite where thats what you have to have.

Direckshun · 02-24-2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

we are worse than the browns...

and at least they're trying...we don't even try, haven't for decades

you'd pass on that QB from Delaware for 'value' every time...you've got a recipe for nowhere

it's like you've learned nothing for the last 30 years

Every year you guys forget. Never fails. I'm on a QB's bandwagon almost every ****ing year. Sanchez, Clausen, I was even pushing for Weeden in the 2nd last year.

I haven't endorsed anybody for our #1 pick yet. I'm still deciding. But I love QBs, I know they're the most important player on the field.

This suddenly became the weakest QB class we've seen in a decade, maybe more. It's reasonable to be hesitant.

Direckshun · 02-24-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Geno Smith is the player in this draft that will have the greatest impact on his team.

He's the clear choice and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

We had two teams in the Super Bowl going at it with good QBs, not great QBs. But they both had Top 3 defenses.

A QB offers you the most direct path to the Super Bowl, but it's not the only one. If there was a guy we could acquire along this DL that could transform our defensive front into an All League front, then that can be worth an investment.

O.city · 02-24-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

We had two teams in the Super Bowl going at it with good QBs, not great QBs. But they both had Top 3 defenses.

A QB offers you the most direct path to the Super Bowl, but it's not the only one. If there was a guy we could acquire along this DL that could transform our defensive front into an All League front, then that can be worth an investment.

Actually, IIRC, the Ravens defense wasn't near as good this year. Granted they had some injuries.

And I've been polite to others and I know you can take it, but **** the ****ing defensive line. **** it with a ****ing dildo **** stick.

I'll take a guy like Margus Hunt and see what happens.

DJ's left nut · 02-24-2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Making the decision to draft Geno Smith means you probably have to ask yourself two questions.

Here's why my answer is an easy 'yes' - the guy you cited: Lane Johnson.

Is this really the most incredible LT class of all time? Or is it just that this is an entire class where there isn't much separation at the top?

Watching the combine, I thought Lane Johnson looked better than Joeckel and Fisher. That tells me that these tackles that are being talked up us as being so much better than Geno as pure players...really aren't all that. Warkmack's feet sucked balls, no chance in hell I'd take him over a QB; likewise with the other guard. I still like Star well enough, but certainly not enough to pass on a Matt Schaub level QB for him.

Does Werner have the athletic ability to be a great pass rusher? Is Richardson smart enough to find the stadium? Is Moore a tweener? Didn't Dion Jordan just have surgery? Are Milliner and Banks any better than Rhodes?

I can find you a wart on each one of those guys and arguments that are similar to the ones made against Geno.

I just watched Geno put forward an athletic display equal to the most athletic QBs the draft has produced in years. In the end, the arguments to be made against him juts don't sway me.

The position's too important. We've sucked too badly at it for too long and there are too many strengths in Geno for me to even contemplate passing on him at this point.

Direckshun · 02-24-2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Actually, IIRC, the Ravens defense wasn't near as good this year. Granted they had some injuries.

And I've been polite to others and I know you can take it, but **** the ****ing defensive line. **** it with a ****ing dildo **** stick.

I'll take a guy like Margus Hunt and see what happens.

I love Margus Hunt, first of all. I want him with our 2nd rounder. LOVE him.

But you're telling me you wouldn't take a Canty-Poe-Richardson DL? With Tyson Jackson and Jerrell Powe rotating in?

God, I'd sure ****ing take that.

Direckshun · 02-24-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Here's why my answer is an easy 'yes' - the guy you cited: Lane Johnson.

Is this really the most incredible LT class of all time? Or is it just that this is an entire class where there isn't much separation at the top?

Watching the combine, I thought Lane Johnson looked better than Joeckel and Fisher. That tells me that these tackles that are being talked up us as being so much better than Geno as pure players...really aren't all that. Warkmack's feet sucked balls, no chance in hell I'd take him over a QB; likewise with the other guard. I still like Star well enough, but certainly not enough to pass on a Matt Schaub level QB for him.

Does Werner have the athletic ability to be a great pass rusher? Is Richardson smart enough to find the stadium? Is Moore a tweener? Didn't Dion Jordan just have surgery? Are Milliner and Banks any better than Rhodes?

I can find you a wart on each one of those guys and arguments that are similar to the ones made against Geno.

I just watched Geno put forward an athletic display equal to the most athletic QBs the draft has produced in years. In the end, the arguments to be made against him juts don't sway me.

The position's too important. We've sucked too badly at it for too long and there are too many strengths in Geno for me to even contemplate passing on him at this point.

You make a lot of good points.

I'm high as balls on Richardson, though. I know that makes me certifiable, but I don't give a shit if he's a dumbass. That mother****er can go.

DJ's left nut · 02-24-2013, 04:38 PM

Until Sheldon Richardson quits on his teammates like he did at Missouri.

He's an idiot and a selfish prick. Richardson at 1.1 would be !@#$ing insane.

02-24-2013, 03:36 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	Better Than Geno Making the decision to draft Geno Smith means you probably have to ask yourself two questions. Initially, we ask ourselves whether Geno Smith is the best player in this draft. If you believe that he is, that's on you and the Yellow Submarine you came in on. For the rest of us (which I think has to be the vast majority), the answer's no. So the two step question: 1. Which players are better than Geno Smith in this draft? and 2. Are you comfortable passing over them for Geno Smith? Now, to me, this is the comprehensive list of players I think are better than Geno, everything being equal (including positional value): 1. OT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M 2. DE/OLB Bjoern Werner, Florida State 3. DE/OLB Damontre Moore, Texas A&M 4. DE/DT Sheldon Richardson, Missouri 5. DT Star Lotulelei, Utah 6. OT Eric Fisher, Central Michigan 7. CB DeMarcus Milliner, Alabama 8. OT Lane Johnson, Oklahoma 9. DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State 10. OG Chance Warmack, Alabama 11. CB Johnathan Banks, Mississippi State 12. DE/OLB Dion Jordan, Oregon 13. S Kenny Vaccaro, Texas (Incidentally, of course, that's my big board.) Are you comfortable passing over this much talent for Geno Smith? Any one player on this list could be a Chief. There is no obstruction between them and our roster. I think that's a tall order for Geno to have to overcome. The argument of reaching for a QB over Hankins and Lane Johnson is tough enough. You're also asking the Chiefs ignore the very best this year has to offer in elite talent like Joeckel and Lotulelei (and players who are likely to end up as choice favorites of any number of coaches, like Sheldon Richardson).
Posts: 59,693

02-24-2013, 04:10 PM	#31
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1529523	The fact is : QB is our weakest position. Geno would be an upgrade, as well as about 5 other rookie QBs. I still think Dorsey goes after the best talent ,surest pick at #1 if that's where we stay but IMO the logical choice is to trade down with Arizona / Buffalo and take Fisher and then come back and get Wilson or Manuel at 34. I do have a hardon for tavon Austin especially after today but he's not a big need other than giving us a punt returner.
Posts: 40,647

02-24-2013, 04:26 PM	#37
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8139900	Geno Smith is the player in this draft that will have the greatest impact on his team. He's the clear choice and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
Posts: 104,324

02-24-2013, 04:28 PM	#38
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-695936	As we've talked about recently on here, I also don't think with the new rule changes etc you have to have what you did say 5 or 6 years ago at Qb to win. I don't think it's takes Elite at that spot, rather just good/great. He had a great playoff run but no way am I putting Joe Flacco as elite. Against probably most opinions, wouldn't say Eli is either. It just doesn't take Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers anymore. They are multipliers yes, but I don't think it's quite where thats what you have to have.
Posts: 84,211

02-24-2013, 04:38 PM	#45
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-810901	Until Sheldon Richardson quits on his teammates like he did at Missouri. He's an idiot and a selfish prick. Richardson at 1.1 would be !@#$ing insane. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,833