Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Link

I bolded the guys that are worthy of an NFL roster. THAT, sir, is criminal mismanagement. Dorsey is building a hell of a lot deeper team that was (is) in cap hell and doing it with quality dudes.

If Herm was a great personnel guy he could have done better than this ****ing horse ****ing shit.

I'll say it again, for the first time in my life, we entered games that we had no chance to win. That shit is on Herm.


Chiefs Final Roster

IR
12 Brodie Croyle QB (IR) Injury
51 J. P. Darche LS (IR) Injury
59 Donnie Edwards OLB (IR) Injury
11 Damon Huard QB (IR) Injury
97 Brian Johnston DE (IR) Injury
31 Maurice Leggett CB (IR) Injury
90 Turk McBride DE (IR) Injury
21 Kolby Smith RB (IR) Injury

QB
8 Quinn Gray
4 Tyler Thigpen

RB
26 Jackie Battle
25 Jamaal Charles
42 Mike Cox FB
27 Larry Johnson

WR
82 Dwayne Bowe
83 Mark Bradley
89 Devard Darling
85 Will Franklin
14 Kevin Robinson KR/PR
80 Jeff Webb

TE
87 Brad Cottam
88 Tony Gonzalez
45 Michael Merritt

OL
76 Branden Albert T
71 Andrew Carnahan T
73 Adrian Jones G
77 Damion McIntosh T
64 Rudy Niswanger C
67 Barry Richardson T
74 Wade Smith G/C
75 Herb Taylor T
65 Tavares Washington G/T
54 Brian Waters G

DL
94 Jason Babin DE
70 Alfonso Boone DE/DT
72 Glenn Dorsey DT
95 Ron Edwards DT
92 Wallace Gilberry DE
91 Tamba Hali DE
69 Derek Lokey DT
96 Andy Studebaker DE
93 Tank Tyler DT

LB
50 Rocky Boiman OLB/ILB
57 Weston Dacus ILB
52 Curtis Gatewood OLB
56 Derrick Johnson ILB
55 Pat Thomas ILB
53 Demorrio Williams OLB

DB
39 Brandon Carr CB
35 Oliver Celestin SS
30 Ricardo Colclough CB
24 Brandon Flowers CB
34 David Macklin CB
47 Jon McGraw FS
38 DaJuan Morgan SS
44 Jarrad Page FS
49 Bernard Pollard SS
23 Patrick Surtain CB

ST
5 Connor Barth K
2 Dustin Colquitt P
48 Thomas Gafford LS

Pretty liberal use of the bold.
Wade Smith, De la Puenta, Barth, Gafford were legit starters
Page, Turk, Tank, Studebaker, Battle, Richardson played decently long NFL careers after they left KC
Ron Edwards, McGraw, and Alfonso Boone were adequate at the time
17 players acquired through the draft or free agency with about 10 of them being legit NFL starters in just 3 years? How unreasonable are your expectations?

The other thing you fail to mention is... how many of Vermeil's guys were still legit NFL players in 2008? DJ, Waters, Gonzalez, Tony Richardson, Surtain. FIVE. DJ was the only guy in that entire group who was under 30. So yeah, when you have to build a 53 man roster and you literally have 1 young guy and 4 old farts to work with and $0 to spend, how reasonable is it for any coach to turn that roster over in 3 years?

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Pretty liberal use of the bold.
Wade Smith, De la Puenta, Barth, Gafford were legit starters
Page, Turk, Tank, Studebaker, Battle, Richardson played decently long NFL careers after they left KC
Ron Edwards, McGraw, and Alfonso Boone were adequate at the time
17 players acquired through the draft or free agency with about 10 of them being legit NFL starters in just 3 years? How unreasonable are your expectations?

The other thing you fail to mention is... how many of Vermeil's guys were still legit NFL players in 2008? DJ, Waters, Gonzalez, Tony Richardson, Surtain. FIVE. DJ was the only guy in that entire group who was under 30. So yeah, when you have to build a 53 man roster and you literally have 1 young guy and 4 old farts to work with and $0 to spend, how reasonable is it for any coach to turn that roster over in 3 years?

My expectation is that you should have about 45 guys that are legit players. Dorsey can do it, why can't Herm? There are a shitton of guys getting jobs after chiefs now than back then.

And 5 guys? are you kidding me?

Colquitt is still with the Chiefs
LJ played until 2011. Probably would have played longer if your BFF wouldn't have killed him.
Jared Allen is still in the league
Jordan Black played until 2012
Weigman played until 2011
Chris Griffin played until 2010
Keyeron Fox played until 2012
Trent Green played until 2008
Todd Collins played until 2010
Boomer Grigsby played until 2008
Dante Hall played until 2008
Sammy Knight played until 2008.
Kawika Mitchell played until 2010 (and started and won a Super Bowl)
Benny Sapp played until 2011
Sims played until 2010
Gary Still played until 2008
Tynes played until 2012 (and won a Super Bowl) before he almost died
Jimmy Wilkerson played until 2011
Kris Wilson played until 2011


Kendrell Bell made it until 2007
Jason Dunn hung around until 2007
Eric Hicks played until 2007
Greg Wesley played until 2007

According to your metrics, Herm inherited 20 serviceable players and left with 17 (your number not mine)

Dude was shit. At everything. Just because Charles, Hali, Albert came around under his term doesn't mean he wasn't shit.

DV was shit and he gave us DJ and Colquitt.

Pioli was shit and we got Berry and Houston.

A couple good picks doesn't dismiss leaving the team a total shitfest.

EDIT: Link

You can click on a player and view their career.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

My expectation is that you should have about 45 guys that are legit players. Dorsey can do it, why can't Herm? There are a shitton of guys getting jobs after chiefs now than back then.

And 5 guys? are you kidding me?

Colquitt is still with the Chiefs
LJ played until 2011. Probably would have played longer if your BFF wouldn't have killed him.
Jared Allen is still in the league
Jordan Black played until 2012
Weigman played until 2011
Chris Griffin played until 2010
Keyeron Fox played until 2012
Trent Green played until 2008
Todd Collins played until 2010
Boomer Grigsby played until 2008
Dante Hall played until 2008
Sammy Knight played until 2008.
Kawika Mitchell played until 2010 (and started and won a Super Bowl)
Benny Sapp played until 2011
Sims played until 2010
Gary Still played until 2008
Tynes played until 2012 (and won a Super Bowl) before he almost died
Jimmy Wilkerson played until 2011
Kris Wilson played until 2011


Kendrell Bell made it until 2007
Jason Dunn hung around until 2007
Eric Hicks played until 2007
Greg Wesley played until 2007

According to your metrics, Herm inherited 20 serviceable players and left with 17 (your number not mine)

Dude was shit. At everything. Just because Charles, Hali, Albert came around under his term doesn't mean he wasn't shit.

DV was shit and he gave us DJ and Colquitt.

Pioli was shit and we got Berry and Houston.

A couple good picks doesn't dismiss leaving the team a total shitfest.

EDIT: Link

You can click on a player and view their career.

Your hate for Herm is blinding you to the fact that Herm inherited one of the worst team situations in our modern era. Almost every player was over 30, we were in salary cap hell for several years, and we had 3 players under 30 worth a damn. It wasn't just bad. It was a disaster. Stop playing it off as anything better than that.

We ended the Herm era with an almost immaculate cap. A core of 10 or so players well under 30 who ended up having excellent NFL careers. And by the way, even building almost entirely from scratch, I think you're forgetting that we made the playoffs in 2010 off of pretty much Herm's roster behind a terrible QB (minus Waters, Gonzalez, De la Puente, Page, Wade Smith, Babin, all of whom were upgrades over the players Pioli replaced them with). Had Dorsey taken over instead of Pioli... with one solid QB pickup, a good 2009 draft, and an effective spending of a lot of money we had in 2009... Not to mention not forcing a 3-4 when we had 4-3 personnel... we would have been a really good team.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Your hate for Herm is blinding you to the fact that Herm inherited one of the worst team situations in our modern era. Almost every player was over 30, we were in salary cap hell for several years, and we had 3 players under 30 worth a damn. It wasn't just bad. It was a disaster. Stop playing it off as anything better than that.

We ended the Herm era with an almost immaculate cap. A core of 10 or so players well under 30 who ended up having excellent NFL careers. And by the way, even building almost entirely from scratch, I think you're forgetting that we made the playoffs in 2010 off of pretty much Herm's roster behind a terrible QB (minus Waters, Gonzalez, De la Puente, Page, Wade Smith, Babin, all of whom were upgrades over the players Pioli replaced them with). Had Dorsey taken over instead of Pioli... with one solid QB pickup, a good 2009 draft, and an effective spending of a lot of money we had in 2009... Not to mention not forcing a 3-4 when we had 4-3 personnel... we would have been a really good team.

Hey man. The three year thing was your deal, not mine. I'm not saying it wasn't a cluster **** when DV left.

What you are missing is that Herms team was just as horrible. Give a guy 3 years that's 21 base picks. Especially if they're high ones like Herm got because he was ****ing horrible you should be able to pull a nucleus of decent talent. But 10 guys don't win. The 2 wins are evidence of that. If this team wasn't a total ****ing tire fire it would have won far more than 2 games. I bet you can go through about any team and find a few guys that you can build around. But it takes something better than awful at every position on the field and Herm wasn't able to get that done in 3 years. Dorsey did it in 1. He wrecked the cap to do it but he put Together some guys that can play.

Herm drafted a few stars. So did Pioli and nobody besides the local Pats trash is clamoring to his defense. Herm was a ****ing disaster. His team had less dudes that went on to play 3 years than DV did by your own count. And DV sold out to win. I'm not blinded by Herm hate anymore than you are blinded because you are enamored with a few stars he stumbled into despite being remarkably incompetent at every single aspect of his job as head coach. That is all despite the fact that crediting Herm with the acquisition of all those guys is beyond a stretch.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Hey man. The three year thing was your deal, not mine. I'm not saying it wasn't a cluster **** when DV left.

What you are missing is that Herms team was just as horrible. Give a guy 3 years that's 21 base picks. Especially if they're high ones like Herm got because he was ****ing horrible you should be able to pull a nucleus of decent talent. But 10 guys don't win. The 2 wins are evidence of that. If this team wasn't a total ****ing tire fire it would have won far more than 2 games. I bet you can go through about any team and find a few guys that you can build around. But it takes something better than awful at every position on the field and Herm wasn't able to get that done in 3 years. Dorsey did it in 1. He wrecked the cap to do it but he put Together some guys that can play.

Herm drafted a few stars. So did Pioli and nobody besides the local Pats trash is clamoring to his defense. Herm was a ****ing disaster. His team had less dudes that went on to play 3 years than DV did by your own count. And DV sold out to win. I'm not blinded by Herm hate anymore than you are blinded because you are enamored with a few stars he stumbled into despite being remarkably incompetent at every single aspect of his job as head coach. That is all despite the fact that crediting Herm with the acquisition of all those guys is beyond a stretch.

Herm inherited an old as shit roster in unbelievable cap hell, and left behind an immaculate cap situation and a core roster of 10 or so players who are still not just starting, but playing excellent even today.

Do you realize that Herm left Pioli with $57M in cap space in 2009? That is insane. And it's not a stretch to give Herm a lot of credit. It's widely known that he went over Peterson's head and demanded that he blow up the roster and push for a youth movement.

With 10-15 not just good, but mostly excellent players, $57M in cap space... there is no excuse for Pioli not to have built a kickass roster in 2009. I have never, ever, ever said Herm was a good coach. But JFC, to blame him for the piece of shit he was given and not acknowledge what a terrific situation the Chiefs were in by 2009.... some people will just hate for the sake of hating.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Herm didn't drag this team down. The hate for the guy among Chiefs fans is seriously unreal. Romeo dragged a team down. Herm made the team better under his watch, even if he wasn't a great gameday coach.

What in the actual ****.

I distinctly remember Herm at his press conference saying he wasn't going to change the offense Vermeil and Saunders had implemented, "because why would I want to change an offense that scores 30 plus every game? HAHAHAHA!!", only to watch him ride Larry Johnson straight into the ground with a 400+ carry season in 2006. He absolutely drug this team down, even if Vermeil left the pantry empty when he left and Peterson was past giving a ****.

Herman Edwards was an AWFUL coach for the Chiefs. What he SHOULD HAVE done was take over for Peterson had Peterson left with Vermeil like it really should have gone down.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Bowser

What in the actual ****.

I distinctly remember Herm at his press conference saying he wasn't going to change the offense Vermeil and Saunders had implemented, "because why would I want to change an offense that scores 30 plus every game? HAHAHAHA!!", only to watch him ride Larry Johnson straight into the ground with a 400+ carry season in 2006. He absolutely drug this team down, even if Vermeil left the pantry empty when he left and Peterson was past giving a ****.

Herman Edwards was an AWFUL coach for the Chiefs. What he SHOULD HAVE done was take over for Peterson had Peterson left with Vermeil like it really should have gone down.

**** taking over for Peterson. If zilla is going to give Herm credit for every guy that could play, that's 17 guys in 3 years. That's 5 and a half players a year that deserve a spot. **** that shit. KC picked up a few talented players and fielded team of complete shit otherwise. No thank you. Get Herm the **** away from my team.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Bowser

What in the actual ****.

I distinctly remember Herm at his press conference saying he wasn't going to change the offense Vermeil and Saunders had implemented, "because why would I want to change an offense that scores 30 plus every game? HAHAHAHA!!", only to watch him ride Larry Johnson straight into the ground with a 400+ carry season in 2006. He absolutely drug this team down, even if Vermeil left the pantry empty when he left and Peterson was past giving a ****.

Herman Edwards was an AWFUL coach for the Chiefs. What he SHOULD HAVE done was take over for Peterson had Peterson left with Vermeil like it really should have gone down.

Like I said, Herm was a terrible X's and O's and game day coach.

But that is different from discussing the moves he made personnel-wise. He was 100% right to push for the rebuild. And he did it effectively. For as much shit as people give him, he left the team in a very good place when he left.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Herm inherited an old as shit roster in unbelievable cap hell, and left behind an immaculate cap situation and a core roster of 10 or so players who are still not just starting, but playing excellent even today.

Do you realize that Herm left Pioli with $57M in cap space in 2009? That is insane. And it's not a stretch to give Herm a lot of credit. It's widely known that he went over Peterson's head and demanded that he blow up the roster and push for a youth movement.

With 10-15 not just good, but mostly excellent players, $57M in cap space... there is no excuse for Pioli not to have built a kickass roster in 2009. I have never, ever, ever said Herm was a good coach. But JFC, to blame him for the piece of shit he was given and not acknowledge what a terrific situation the Chiefs were in by 2009.... some people will just hate for the sake of hating.

So you are going to say you acknowledge he is a shitacular coach, which WAS HIS ****ING JOB and also was the basis of my rant. Then you are going to say that he said **** winning and went out and got the bust guys he could and ended up with 10. In three ****ing years? And you're going to make the argument that it was a job well done? Are you ****ing kidding me with this shit?

Sure. I hate Herm. But you have done nothing here but reinforce it. Quite strongly.

JFC dude. Herm was horrible. At everything he ever did in KC. He was horrible at the Jets And now he's horrible at everything he is doing in Bristol.

**** Herm. Peterson could have went and got ANYBODY and thy could have done just as well. And probably could have coached a little too. Because you know. That's the ****ing Job.

Moreover, if you're going to tell me he made the call on all the personnel moves LOL. Just LOL.

[cooper barrett]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

My expectation is that you should have about 45 guys that are legit players. Dorsey can do it, why can't Herm? There are a shitton of guys getting jobs after chiefs now than back then.

And 5 guys? are you kidding me?


Jared Allen is still in the league

Cough, didn't Allen ride off into the sunset , or lack thereof, on his horse when he retired?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjfYY0K5vG4

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Pretty liberal use of the bold.
Wade Smith, De la Puenta, Barth, Gafford were legit starters
Page, Turk, Tank, Studebaker, Battle, Richardson played decently long NFL careers after they left KC
Ron Edwards, McGraw, and Alfonso Boone were adequate at the time
17 players acquired through the draft or free agency with about 10 of them being legit NFL starters in just 3 years? How unreasonable are your expectations?

The other thing you fail to mention is... how many of Vermeil's guys were still legit NFL players in 2008? DJ, Waters, Gonzalez, Tony Richardson, Surtain. FIVE. DJ was the only guy in that entire group who was under 30. So yeah, when you have to build a 53 man roster and you literally have 1 young guy and 4 old farts to work with and $0 to spend, how reasonable is it for any coach to turn that roster over in 3 years?

And since you made me look, here are your guys that are "good"


LINK

Wade Smith Played until 2014. Legit.
De La Puenta I didn't find him on the roster on the link.
Barth Still in the league but was horrid. Nobody whined about him leaving
Gafford Still in the league. Legit.
Page played until 2011, but never stayed more than a year, marginal at best
Turk played until 2012. I had no idea. I thought he was done after he went back to Goonther. Legit.
Tank Out of the league after 2009. NOT legit
Studebaker played until 2014, probably legit player
Battle Legit.
Richardson played until 2013, probably a legit player
Ron Edwards Played until 2012, but played 0 snaps in 2011. Not sure he's all world.
McGraw played until 2011, barely snuck in there.
Boone Played until 2010, didn't make the 3 year window that you held DVs guys to.

Take out De Le Puenta, Barth, Tank, and Boone. that leaves Team Herm with 13 guys and Team DV with 20 dudes that played 3 years.

And DV was the one that sold out to win.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

And since you made me look, here are your guys that are "good"


LINK

Wade Smith Played until 2014. Legit.
De La Puenta I didn't find him on the roster on the link.
Barth Still in the league but was horrid. Nobody whined about him leaving
Gafford Still in the league. Legit.
Page played until 2011, but never stayed more than a year, marginal at best
Turk played until 2012. I had no idea. I thought he was done after he went back to Goonther. Legit.
Tank Out of the league after 2009. NOT legit
Studebaker played until 2014, probably legit player
Battle Legit.
Richardson played until 2013, probably a legit player
Ron Edwards Played until 2012, but played 0 snaps in 2011. Not sure he's all world.
McGraw played until 2011, barely snuck in there.
Boone Played until 2010, didn't make the 3 year window that you held DVs guys to.

Take out De Le Puenta, Barth, Tank, and Boone. that leaves Team Herm with 13 guys and Team DV with 20 dudes that played 3 years.

And DV was the one that sold out to win.

DV had 20 expensive dudes who barely made it 3 years. Most of them miraculously made it well past 35, which is the only reason your argument at all works. And the majority of those guys were garbage by the year 2008.

Herm brought in 10 or so guys who had excellent careers, costed nothing, and most of whom are still relevant almost 10 years later. And he barely spent any money (except for Carl's dumbass moves). Pioli was gifted one hell of a roster situation. Meaning given the situation Herm was put in, he left the team in a really good place. Don't blame him for Pioli ****ing it up.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

DV had 20 expensive dudes who barely made it 3 years. Most of them miraculously made it well past 35, which is the only reason your argument at all works. And the majority of those guys were garbage by the year 2008.

Herm brought in 10 or so guys who had excellent careers, costed nothing, and most of whom are still relevant almost 10 years later. And he barely spent any money (except for Carl's dumbass moves). Pioli was gifted one hell of a roster situation. Meaning given the situation Herm was put in, he left the team in a really good place. Don't blame him for Pioli ****ing it up.

Dude. No. That 3 year deal was your thing. Not mine. Don't whine to me when it doesn't ****in work.

DV sold out to win. Herm was team building. If He was worth half a **** at it he'd have way more guys that played 3 years than DV did. If you have 3 years and come up with 17 guys that are worthy of a roster spot (your number not mine) then you are terrible at building a team. That's not even ****ing sustainable. It would take you 10 years to build a roster that was worth a ****. Most player careers aren't 10 years. And don't give me any bottom 20 bullshit. Several of the guys you listed are bottom 20 players. Herms success rate is a 10 year plan. That's horrid.

Like I said. He got a few decent dudes. Almost every team has a few decent guys on it. That doesn't mean e did this franchise any good. You could have picked any personnel man and he could have found you a few decent players. Probably would have been able to do so without making the franchise a joke.

Herm made the franchise a joke. Not Pioli. He didn't do ****all to fix it. But Herm made it a joke.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

DV had 20 expensive dudes who barely made it 3 years. Most of them miraculously made it well past 35, which is the only reason your argument at all works. And the majority of those guys were garbage by the year 2008.

Herm brought in 10 or so guys who had excellent careers, costed nothing, and most of whom are still relevant almost 10 years later. And he barely spent any money (except for Carl's dumbass moves). Pioli was gifted one hell of a roster situation. Meaning given the situation Herm was put in, he left the team in a really good place. Don't blame him for Pioli ****ing it up.

Bullshit.

Thanks to Herm, the Chiefs QB situation was Broken Croyle and Thigpen. Far from "one hell of a roster situation" at the game's most important position.

Also the Glenn Dorsey bust at #5 overall goes on Herm's record as well.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Bullshit.

Thanks to Herm, the Chiefs QB situation was Broken Croyle and Thigpen. Far from "one hell of a roster situation" at the game's most important position.

Also the Glenn Dorsey bust at #5 overall goes on Herm's record as well.

That is unbelievably nitpicky to knock on the Dorsey pick. And he wasn't a bust.

The QB situation wasn't great. But he's the only damn person in Chiefs' history who had the guts to start a young QB even when Peterson was trying to shove Huard down his throat.