Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

He straight up went the **** off! I don't know if this happened this morning, or a couple of days ago but he lost his ****ing shit over it! It was great. I'll try and track down something I can embed into this post. For those who saw it, did you laugh, or were you almost embarrassed for the guy?

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I'll repeat, this is the team Pioli could have rolled with in 2009: QB - Sanchez (draft at #3)

Herm was already wed to his QBOTF Broken Croyle.

You remember Broken Croyle, the QB that talent evaluator extraordinaire Herm handpicked to be the Chiefs QBOTF.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Herm was already wed to his QBOTF Broken Croyle.

You remember Broken Croyle, the QB that talent evaluator extraordinaire Herm handpicked to be the Chiefs QBOTF.

That won 0 NFL games. Ever.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Sully

Herm brought back the white on whites... for a ****ing home game.


**** Herm.

That was Herm? WTF? JFC.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Yeah. You don't just win with average starters. The rest of the team was a fire fire. Throwing a couple big name players at it doesn't change the fact that 10 or so guys that play significant snaps on offense defense and ST can't play. Go get some FA with your 57 M and you'll still have a team with no depth because Herm was a shit talent evaluator. For every Pollard you have to account for all the no name mother****ers he whiffed on. Just as you are bringing up about Dorsey. It takes more than 25 guys to make a team that's worth a ****. Especially if you're hangin your hat on players of Barry Rochardson caliber as the good guys.

Bottom line is this. If he were a good talent evaluator 3 years is enough time to get enough decent players in there to not stink it up to the tune of 14 losses.

So we all acknowledge that the Chiefs brought in about 9 guys who could start: Albert, Charles, Flowers, Carr, Bowe, Hali, Dorsey, Pollard, Barth, Page. 9 guys and 1 kicker in 3 years, with the majority of them being very good players at really difficult positions? That's a decent young haul for 3 years, especially considering we picked from #23 and #20 the first 2 years.

So we drafted well. We didn't bring in many good FAs because we weren't actively looking because of our cap situation. So from a personnel standpoint, the big knock is that he didn't pull in a lot of talent from the scrap heap. Fair point. But it's also not necessarily something that gets pinned on your coach very often.

Again, with a fair cap situation, we would have had more ability to bring in cheap free agents to fill in gaps. Had we gone after the FA market, we could have easily brought in maybe 4 or 5 starters in those 3 years. But we didn't do pursue those markets. So while I agree the free agent haul wasn't great, you can't compare that to a regime like Pioli's or Dorsey's that was actively looking to bring in free agents and spend money. Actually, an even bigger knock on Pioli is that for whatever dumb reason, he decided to sit on a bunch of money in 2009.

[Predarat]

Hahah wow. You play to win the game and shut up and hand the ball to the refs! DntTwit

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So we all acknowledge that the Chiefs brought in about 9 guys who could start: Albert, Charles, Flowers, Carr, Bowe, Hali, Dorsey, Pollard, Barth, Page. 9 guys and 1 kicker in 3 years, with the majority of them being very good players at really difficult positions? That's a decent young haul for 3 years, especially considering we picked from #23 and #20 the first 2 years.

So we drafted well. We didn't bring in many good FAs because we weren't actively looking because of our cap situation. So from a personnel standpoint, the big knock is that he didn't pull in a lot of talent from the scrap heap. Fair point. But it's also not necessarily something that gets pinned on your coach very often.

Again, with a fair cap situation, we would have had more ability to bring in cheap free agents to fill in gaps. Had we gone after the FA market, we could have easily brought in maybe 4 or 5 starters in those 3 years. But we didn't do pursue those markets. So while I agree the free agent haul wasn't great, you can't compare that to a regime like Pioli's or Dorsey's that was actively looking to bring in free agents and spend money. Actually, an even bigger knock on Pioli is that for whatever dumb reason, he decided to sit on a bunch of money in 2009.

Eh I don't know if I'd call 9 guys and a kicker that was horrible the one year we are talking about but went on to be decent a job well done. You are still buying the impact player crap. It takes a team to win. You can have 2 great corners and 2 great safeties but if your nickel guy can't cover my grandma, you haven't got shit. I'd call 9 guys and a kicker coupled with a truckload of rat shit a shitterrible offseason.

And Herm definitely could have found some cheap FA. Look at Spencer Ware. His cap hit is $360,000. Chris Conley's cap hit is $712,434. Link So whatever preconceived notion that you have that FA have to be expensive is incorrect. Again, the important thing is getting guys that outplay their salary.

Herm didn't not get FAs because they were too expensive. He didn't get FAs because he was bad at talent evaluation, which again, you have admitted was his ONLY redeeming quality.

Herm was horrible.

[Marcellus]

At the 2010 Chiefs kickoff luncheon I sat at the table with Tamba Hali. He told us when Herm was coach they never game planned on defense. He just told them to go play. he said they did more game planning at Penn State than when Herm was coach.

[mcaj22]

Pretty sure that year between Herm/Fat Scott we did PULL in talent off the scrap heap. Wade Smith was already on the team and Fat Scott cut him before giving him a chance. Same with Jason Babin, Brian De La Puente, Connor Barth.

There were some starting caliber players at the end of the roster and Fat Scott never even bothered to evaluate them. That's the difference today, Dorsey will evaluate those guys and we are seeing the results on Sunday right in front of our eyes.

But yea we could have won with that rookie class and the starters we ended up cutting for nothing because our GM at the time had an ego the size of the solar system.

[suzzer99]

Tamba also said Herm's conditioning program was shit. Don't think he liked Herm very much.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

The main thing I take from this thread is that there are people out there with a ton of free time.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He handed over a franchise in terrific shape .

If they were in "terrific" shape they would have won more than a handful of games.

Also, I think leaving a team in good or bad shape is overrated because if you have a GM/coaching change, they are going to build their own system with their own players.

[Bowser]

I like how chiefzilla acknowledges how Herm was never a good X's or O's kind of coach right off the bat, but goes on for over a hundred posts to defend how he didn't bring the team down.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

NFL has Herm come in regularly to talk to rookies about making good decisions in life especially as they are vulnerable to make bad ones as their fame status grows. Frustrates him despite his annual talk a lot of them go off and do dumb things both personally and financially that puts them in the focus of the media and him being a proud African American, it really ticks him off to see the Josh Gordons, the Aldon Smiths, Ray Rice, etc.

I for one am glad Reid is our head coach because he is so good at fostering the idea of the team, rather than allowing players making it about themselves

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Sully

Herm brought back the white on whites... for a ****ing home game.


**** Herm.

All of this. Herm breaks out the tampon look for the home opener, and Trent Green promptly gets his brain spun around 360 degrees in his skullcase. The hell with that guy.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Eh I don't know if I'd call 9 guys and a kicker that was horrible the one year we are talking about but went on to be decent a job well done. You are still buying the impact player crap. It takes a team to win. You can have 2 great corners and 2 great safeties but if your nickel guy can't cover my grandma, you haven't got shit. I'd call 9 guys and a kicker coupled with a truckload of rat shit a shitterrible offseason.

And Herm definitely could have found some cheap FA. Look at Spencer Ware. His cap hit is $360,000. Chris Conley's cap hit is $712,434. Link So whatever preconceived notion that you have that FA have to be expensive is incorrect. Again, the important thing is getting guys that outplay their salary.

Herm didn't not get FAs because they were too expensive. He didn't get FAs because he was bad at talent evaluation, which again, you have admitted was his ONLY redeeming quality.

Herm was horrible.

I don't have a preconceived notion that all free agency is expensive. But you can't rule out that if the Chiefs spent on long-term free agents, they could have easily added to those 17 - 25 contributors. It also allows you to buy lots of small contributors. Fasano, Schwartz, Vickerson, Branch, etc.... these guys were cheap, but they're not that cheap for a team trying to clean their cap up.

I don't think Herm was great at talent evaluation. Much credit goes to Kuharich and the scouts. But (LJ aside) he generally put the right guys over the field, insisted on a youth movement (right thing to do), and yes the decision to blow up the roster was absolutely correct and it was extremely ballsy.

My point all along is and always has been: there are a lot worse coaches than Herm, but I never wanted his 9-7 ceiling. But he made bold moves during the rebuild most coaches wouldn't, and they put the team in a good situation in 2009. You may not agree with the talent that was on there. But it was smart to show massive restrain in free agency vs. band-aiding. It was smart to clean the roster up from lots of bad contracts. It was smart to get your young guys out there early to sink or swim. Any reasonable GM should have taken that 2009 roster and immediately turned them into at least an 8-8 team. I truly believe that.