We have a new GM and his name is Brett Veach

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Seriously WTF was Dorsey thinking drafting these projects?

Wanna know why the Steelers are always competitive? They draft quality players who can play year 1 and be good long term players.

2017-TJ Watt, Juju, James Conner is playing some, Cam Sutton is getting a little bit of time.
2016-Artie Burns, Sean Davis and Javon Hargrave played roles their rookie years.
2015-Bud Dupree, Sammie Coates and Jesse James all played their rookie years.
2014-Ryan Shazier, Stephon Tuitt, Martavis Bryant all played.

I hate the stupid slow approach of not playing premium picks year 1. Hated it with Dee Ford, hated it with Chris Conley and hated it with Steven Nelson.

Thank God we were actually forced to play Tanoh this year, and oh look! He actually looks pretty decent!

Here we go again. A Chiefs fan criticizing Dorsey for his draft picks when he proved to be one of the very best in the business. And what year recently did the Chiefs have the most snaps by their rookies in the entire league? Yeah, ok..

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Here we go again. A Chiefs fan criticizing Dorsey for his draft picks when he proved to be one of the very best in the business. And what year recently did the Chiefs have the most snaps by their rookies in the entire league? Yeah, ok..

Him and the anger management counselor Dane seem to think you have to hit on every draft pick and every contract has to be perfect in order to not deserve to be fired as a GM in the NFL.

Idiots.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Him and the anger management counselor Dane seem to think you have to hit on every draft pick and every contract has to be perfect in order to not deserve to be fired as a GM in the NFL.

Idiots.

You're a ****ing turd

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Here we go again. A Chiefs fan criticizing Dorsey for his draft picks when he proved to be one of the very best in the business. And what year recently did the Chiefs have the most snaps by their rookies in the entire league? Yeah, ok..

Dorsey did a great job hitting on a pick each draft, but he did not build quality depth on this team.

The defense has problems because of this. Thankfully, Brett Veach was able to help the ILB problem this year.

Imagine where this defense would be without Ragland and KPL?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Dorsey did a great job hitting on a pick each draft, but he did not build quality depth on this team.

The defense has problems because of this. Thankfully, Brett Veach was able to help the ILB problem this year.

Imagine where this defense would be without Ragland and KPL?

A great GM builds a roster that can continually, year in and year out, contend for a Super Bowl Championship.

In 5 years of Free Agent and draft acquisitions, this team is no closer to a Super Bowl than it was when Dorsey arrived in 2013.

Furthermore, the Prime Years of guys like Tamba Hali, Eric Berry, Justin Houston and even Dontari Poe, all of whom were on the roster before Dorsey arrived, have been wasted.

[prhom]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

A great GM builds a roster that can continually, year in and year out, contend for a Super Bowl Championship.

In 5 years of Free Agent and draft acquisitions, this team is no closer to a Super Bowl than it was when Dorsey arrived in 2013.

Furthermore, the Prime Years of guys like Tamba Hali, Eric Berry, Justin Houston and even Dontari Poe, all of whom were on the roster before Dorsey arrived, have been wasted.

I think the failings of the Chiefs over Dorsey’s tenure can be explained by injuries, excessive contracts to players who should have been let go, and failure to find a franchise QB until too late. Tamba’s prime years were over before Dorsey got here. Berry lost a year to cancer. Houston got paid and then was MIA for the better part of two seasons. Poe hurt his back and was not the same. You can say what you want about depth, but the only teams that overcome injuries to key guys are teams with franchise, top QBs. Smith is a good QB, but we all agree he isn’t a put the team on your back and win no matter what scrubs are playing.

There’s a reason that we continually see many of the same teams in the post-season. The teams that make it stay healthy or have great QBs that can mask the effect of injuries. For the Chiefs to have faired better than we have over the last few years we needed to have more guys stay healthy or have Smith make up for it. We haven’t and Smith hasn’t quite been able to get it done. We have been surprisingly close, but just not quite there.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by prhom

We have been surprisingly close, but just not quite there.

$78 million in Dead Cap Space under Dorsey, massive lack of depth, inability to draft pass rushers, cornerbacks, (outside of Peters, who was a head case coming out of college), linebackers and overall poor roster management.

I've said this before but Veach was able to add more talent in 3 months on the job (Butker, Ragland and KPL) than Dorsey did via the draft in 2017.

With 6 draft picks in 2017, Dorsey drafted exactly one impact player in Kareem Hunt.

Three of Dorsey's 2016 picks are no longer on the roster and two were cut before the season began in 5th rounder Kevin Hogan and 3rd rounder Keivarie Russell. While he hit on Hill (another troubled player) and Chris Jones (who slipped due to laziness), Ehinger, Murray and Robinson have been disappointments.

Don't even get me started on the 2013 and 2014 drafts. Sheesh.

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

$78 million in Dead Cap Space under Dorsey, massive lack of depth, inability to draft pass rushers, cornerbacks, (outside of Peters, who was a head case coming out of college), linebackers and overall poor roster management.

I've said this before but Veach was able to add more talent in 3 months on the job (Butker, Ragland and KPL) than Dorsey did via the draft in 2017.

With 6 draft picks in 2017, Dorsey drafted exactly one impact player in Kareem Hunt.

Three of Dorsey's 2016 picks are no longer on the roster and two were cut before the season began in 5th rounder Kevin Hogan and 3rd rounder Keivarie Russell. While he hit on Hill (another troubled player) and Chris Jones (who slipped due to laziness), Ehinger, Murray and Robinson have been disappointments.

Don't even get me started on the 2013 and 2014 drafts. Sheesh.

I don't have time for now to defend Dorsey whom I am really high on but you clearly lose credibility when judging this past draft class saying he drafted exactly one impact player.

If anything, between Mahomes, Kpassagnon, Chesson and Eligwe, this draft class should be judged in two years from now and right now it looks promising IMO. I feel really good about that draft class.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

I don't have time for now to defend Dorsey whom I am really high on but you clearly lose credibility when judging this past draft class saying he drafted exactly one impact player.

If anything, between Mahomes, Kpassagnon, Chesson and Eligwe, this draft class should be judged in two years from now and right now it looks promising IMO. I feel really good about that draft class.

You're just dumb as ****

Congrats

[prhom]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

$78 million in Dead Cap Space under Dorsey, massive lack of depth, inability to draft pass rushers, cornerbacks, (outside of Peters, who was a head case coming out of college), linebackers and overall poor roster management.

I've said this before but Veach was able to add more talent in 3 months on the job (Butker, Ragland and KPL) than Dorsey did via the draft in 2017.

With 6 draft picks in 2017, Dorsey drafted exactly one impact player in Kareem Hunt.

Three of Dorsey's 2016 picks are no longer on the roster and two were cut before the season began in 5th rounder Kevin Hogan and 3rd rounder Keivarie Russell. While he hit on Hill (another troubled player) and Chris Jones (who slipped due to laziness), Ehinger, Murray and Robinson have been disappointments.

Don't even get me started on the 2013 and 2014 drafts. Sheesh.

You are right about dead cap space and I agree with that point completely. Using hindsight, who and how would you have picked differently this past draft ahead of Kareem Hunt? I’m happy with Mahomes and what we had to do to get him. Expecting immediate impact players after round 3 seem an unreasonable standard. So that leaves us arguing about who would have been a better pick than Kpassagnon?

Look, I like what Veach has done so far and hope he’s better than Dorsey. I just think criticizing Dorsey’s drafting is odd. Especially the 2017 draft because of what he gave up for Mahomes.

He missed in the pass rushers because we had spent so much on Houston and Dee Ford teased a little making plenty think he might actually be okay before disappearing last half of last year and this year. Steven Nelson seems average and is starter quality on many teams. He has struggled with the other CBs for sure though. I guess we just see it differently.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

A great GM builds a roster that can continually, year in and year out, contend for a Super Bowl Championship.

In 5 years of Free Agent and draft acquisitions, this team is no closer to a Super Bowl than it was when Dorsey arrived in 2013.

Furthermore, the Prime Years of guys like Tamba Hali, Eric Berry, Justin Houston and even Dontari Poe, all of whom were on the roster before Dorsey arrived, have been wasted.

I dont recall you being this down on Dorsey until he was fired

It wasnt ALL bad, was it? He gave this team direction (build through the draft primarily) hope and some exciting players along the way... yes, he clearly bungled some things and I'm not trying to excuse those

And come on... no closer to the big one than the 2-14 murder/suicide? If for nothing else, he deserves our everlasting gratitude for Mahomes

Veach may have found him, and pushed for him... but the decision to make a huge move for him ultimately rests with Dorsey

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

I dont recall you being this down on Dorsey until he was fired

That's not true. I really didn't like the 2016 draft and called upon him to release Russell and Robinson. He did release Russell and I praised him for that but he made many, many errors during his time with the Chiefs, especially with free agency and contract values, that the decision to fire him made complete sense to me.

Originally Posted by Easy 6

It wasnt ALL bad, was it? He gave this team direction (build through the draft primarily) hope and some exciting players along the way... yes, he clearly bungled some things and I'm not trying to excuse those

Outside of the QB position, the Chiefs were a pretty talented team in 2013, both offensively and defensively. Dorsey's additions that year in free agency were a mixed bag: Avery, DeVito and Fasano were "okay" additions, Dunta Robinson was awful. Eric Fisher, drafted as a left tackle, was a disaster on the right side and Kelce didn't contribute due to a knee injury.

For the most part, Reid coached up the existing players.

Originally Posted by Easy 6

And come on... no closer to the big one than the 2-14 murder/suicide? If for nothing else, he deserves our everlasting gratitude for Mahomes

The decision to draft Mahomes wasn't driven by one person. Veach scouted him hard, brought him to Reid, who visited Texas Tech and met with the peeps on campus. Dorsey was no where to be found.

And yes, barring some unforeseen miracle, this team is no closer to a Super Bowl in 2017 than they were in 2012. Houston and Berry will soon be on the wrong side of 30, Hali is done, the receiving corp, outside of Hill now that Conley's gone, is meh at best, etc. and so on.

Veach could find three legit, immediate impact rookies next year and the Chiefs would still need ridiculous play from the QB and defense to push for a Super Bowl.

That's a lot to ask, especially minus a first round pick.

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Veach may have found him, and pushed for him... but the decision to make a huge move for him ultimately rests with Dorsey

From all reports, it was a decision made by Dorsey, Hunt and Reid. And while I expect Mahomes to have a great career, he still hasn't played a single down in the NFL, so the jury is out.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Outside of the QB position, the Chiefs were a pretty talented team in 2013, both offensively and defensively. Dorsey's additions that year in free agency were a mixed bag: Avery, DeVito and Fasano were "okay" additions, Dunta Robinson was awful. Eric Fisher, drafted as a left tackle, was a disaster on the right side and Kelce didn't contribute due to a knee injury.

For the most part, Reid coached up the existing players.



The decision to draft Mahomes wasn't driven by one person. Veach scouted him hard, brought him to Reid, who visited Texas Tech and met with the peeps on campus. Dorsey was no where to be found.

And yes, barring some unforeseen miracle, this team is no closer to a Super Bowl in 2017 than they were in 2012. Houston and Berry will soon be on the wrong side of 30, Hali is done, the receiving corp, outside of Hill now that Conley's gone, is meh at best, etc. and so on.

Veach could find three legit, immediate impact rookies next year and the Chiefs would still need ridiculous play from the QB and defense to push for a Super Bowl.

That's a lot to ask, especially minus a first round pick.



From all reports, it was a decision made by Dorsey, Hunt and Reid. And while I expect Mahomes to have a great career, he still hasn't played a single down in the NFL, so the jury is out.

I'd give DeVito better than ok, dude was a solid run stopping fireplug... for Avery and Fasano, 'ok' fits the bill though

Cant blame Dorsey for Kelce' injury

With the no closer to a SB part, its hard to understand the math there... we're waaay closer now than we were coming off the disaster that led to the arrival of Dorsey and co. Its taken a hit lately, but a winning culture has been established with multiple playoff appearances to prove it

Obviously, we've all been expecting more than what we've gotten so far... but this organization is miles above the 2-14 group

Things just aren't quite as bad as they may look right now, IMO

1) New DC
2) Nagy retains playcalling duties
3) Invest 80% of draft and free agency resources into the defense
4) Bring in an animal or two on the O line, LG , quite possibly C and better depth
5) Hand the keys to Money Mahomes, yes technically the jury is still out... but God as my witness I've never seen anything quite like him, he is going to be special

We're really not as bereft of talent as it seems, just need a few guys like Kpass to work out and things can turn around quickly... just look at the Rams

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

1) New DC
2) Nagy retains playcalling duties
3) Invest 80% of draft and free agency resources into the defense
4) Bring in an animal or two on the O line, LG , quite possibly C and better depth
5) Hand the keys to Money Mahomes, yes technically the jury is still out... but God as my witness I've never seen anything quite like him, he is going to be special

This is a sound all-around plan IMO. Nagy is very likely headed to Indy though I feel.

You've got the entire starting offense returning in 2018, sans Albert Wilson and Alex Smith. As you mentioned, the interior OL has some question marks to address and I'd love to see upgrades at WR2/3 and TE2. Overall, they shouldn't have to denote a ton of resources to that side of the football.

Take a chunk of that $30+M in cap space that they will have and help your defense. Don't spend it all, as that won't be necessary, but use it smartly. They will already have Berry, Peters(?), Houston, Jones, Ragland, etc. in place. That's not a bad foundation at all. Probably better than a large chunk of the NFL. By the time you supplement it with some FAs and draft picks, the defense might look really good.

If Mahomes is the man, they are going to be playoff contenders in '18. And as you mentioned, I have such a strong feeling about his future. If I had to bet, I would say HOF over bust.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

I'd give DeVito better than ok, dude was a solid run stopping fireplug... for Avery and Fasano, 'ok' fits the bill though

I labeled him as "okay" because he couldn't rush the passer.

Originally Posted by Easy 6

1, 2, 3, 4, 5

That's a whole lot of things that need to go right, something that hasn't been happening.

Originally Posted by Easy 6

just look at the Rams

The Rams drafted a QB #1 overall. They hired a fantastic offensive mind and the best defensive coordinator in the business in Wade Phillips. Their defense was loaded, with the best DL in the NFL in Aaron Donald.

They brought in two more receivers via the draft in WR Cooper Kupp and TE Garrett Everett while signing Robert Woods and trading for Sammy Watkins. They also signed a stalwart left tackle to go along with one of the best running backs in the business in Todd Gurley. Punter Johnny Hekker is a stud, too.

The bottom line is that they made a shit ton of moves this offseason, all of which paid off. They have very good young pieces in place on both sides of the ball, something that can't necessarily be said about the Chiefs. The Chiefs receiving corp, D line and linebackers are a notch or two below that of the Rams.