2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Mikolas is on a 2 year deal and you got him from Japan. You could probably get a really good return from a contender for him.

I would think so too. He's found money. Should gamble with him on a trade for some possible hgh end talent but not sure things.

Originally Posted by jd1020

You could probably get a really good return from a contender for him.

Same with Ozuna.

Yep. I don't see him signing long term here. Seems like the kind of hitter teams want at the deadline. We have to trade him before next season starts to get the max value.

Originally Posted by jd1020

Jose Martinez shouldn't be in the NL.

But, what can you get from an AL team for him?

Originally Posted by jd1020

Wong should be on the bench

I thought he was going to turn it around after last season. He was sprayng the ball to all fields. Using that inside out swing to get hits to LF. Hit .275-.285. And now hes back to the home run on every swing approach. He's such a good defensive 2B. What a waste. Again though, I dont see any trade value.

Originally Posted by jd1020

Fowler should be cut.

Agreed and advocated for this in this thread several times. We have the extra money to write off the financial loss. We should cut our on the field losses.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Trade Mikolas. Trade Ozuna. Trade Jose Martinez.

I dare you Mozeliak!

I'd hold Ozuna; his value is suppressed.

I'd absolutely consider offers on Mikolas and Martinez though - both guys are pretty good candidates. Mikolas is unlikely to get a long-term deal past next season due to age and rotation candidates in the minors. He'll test the market at least. Martinez just isn't a National League player and his value will never be higher.

Martinez actually fits Boston nicely. He and JD Martinez could split DH duties while also playing LF (pretty easy in Fenway; Even Jose can be hidden out there). The problem is that the Sox system just isn't very good these days, IMO. Everyone points to Chavis but a power guy with a high K rate in the low minors, a PED suspension and a passable at best glove who only profiles at 1b and 3b is a pretty iffy return as the centerpiece, IMO. I'd be more interested in him if he were lefty. Sam Travis is a JAG. Groome has some odd red flags around him (though I liked him heading into the draft).

I'm as familiar with Houck as anyone in the country who isn't a family member, oddly enough. As a Mizzou season ticket holder for a bit now I saw pretty much all his starts his last 2 years and ultimately his JR (last) season left me a lot underwhelmed. Breaking ball took a step back, fastball command was spotty. He just didn't seem to flourish with the added pressure of being the staff ace on a team with post-season aspirations. And this is petty, but on Sundays when everyone on the team would go out there and sign for the kids on the field, he'd just walk down the tunnel. The kid was big-leaguing 4 yr olds; WTF? So Houck's not a guy I'd build a deal around either.

Bottom line is that I just don't like the Bosox system that much.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Well, my Pirates are free falling.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Aw Boo-Hoo. You have room to blow a series or two. 162 games etc. I'm sure the 27 Yankees got swept by some team.


I agree with the lack of stones to make a move.
I disagree with blowing it up. Offense, sure but our starting pitching is excellent.
We still have Hudson languishing in AAA because they dont want the service time clock to start ticking. And I get that and agree. We are going nowhere so why burn a year of maybe a future top of the rotation starter for us?

Hudson isn't a top of the rotation starter, IMO. Solid #3. Let's set aside Rick Porcello's flukey-ass 2016 where he stole a CY, the 2.5-3 win pitcher he's been essentially every other year of his career is probably your best case scenario for Hudson. Maybe a Matt Boyd, Jake Odorizzi, Kyle Gibson sort.

If the Cardinals are looking to bank financial wherewithal via cost-controlled starting pitching and use that to supplement the offense in FA, you hold onto Hudson because he's going to out-pitch his salary by a far amount of the next 6 years. But if the Cardinals hold him because they think he's an ace in waiting, they're making a mistake.

Make Hudson the sweetener in a deal centered around Bader, Kelly, Hudson and a 4th piece for Syndergaard and I'd do it in a hearbeat. If the Mets are seriously considering moving that guy, make it happen. Get him in a rotation with Mike Maddux and he'll win a CY within 3 years, IMO. His stuff and command is that good.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd hold Ozuna; his value is suppressed.

I'd absolutely consider offers on Mikolas and Martinez though - both guys are pretty good candidates. Mikolas is unlikely to get a long-term deal past next season due to age and rotation candidates in the minors. He'll test the market at least. Martinez just isn't a National League player and his value will never be higher.

Martinez actually fits Boston nicely. He and JD Martinez could split DH duties while also playing LF (pretty easy in Fenway; Even Jose can be hidden out there). The problem is that the Sox system just isn't very good these days, IMO. Everyone points to Chavis but a power guy with a high K rate in the low minors, a PED suspension and a passable at best glove who only profiles at 1b and 3b is a pretty iffy return as the centerpiece, IMO. I'd be more interested in him if he were lefty. Sam Travis is a JAG. Groome has some odd red flags around him (though I liked him heading into the draft).

I'm as familiar with Houck as anyone in the country who isn't a family member, oddly enough. As a Mizzou season ticket holder for a bit now I saw pretty much all his starts his last 2 years and ultimately his JR (last) season left me a lot underwhelmed. Breaking ball took a step back, fastball command was spotty. He just didn't seem to flourish with the added pressure of being the staff ace on a team with post-season aspirations. And this is petty, but on Sundays when everyone on the team would go out there and sign for the kids on the field, he'd just walk down the tunnel. The kid was big-leaguing 4 yr olds; WTF? So Houck's not a guy I'd build a deal around either.

Bottom line is that I just don't like the Bosox system that much.

so who are our realistic trading partners? What does a trade look like?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

Well, my Pirates are free falling.

That's what happens when you enter the season indifferent about winning.

The Pirates were an obvious collapse candidate. They not only didn't attempt to improve, they announced loudly that they didn't really care if they got worse.

So naturally, they did...

[VAChief]

Bernie lays out the despair fairly bluntly...love the phrase mathenaging.

https://www.101sports.com/2018/06/15...p-mathenaging/

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

so who are our realistic trading partners? What does a trade look like?

No idea at this point.

Seattle? His power would play down in their ballpark and he'd force Cruz into the OF full-time and his body simply can't do that anymore. He's a pending FA though and Martinez could be appealing to them next year. While his HRs would drop, the line drive swing may be a perfect approach to that park. Martinez really can't play OF out there.

Toronto isn't able to compete and isn't sure if Vlad Jr can play the field just yet. I'd be surprised to see them make a move that could lock up DH when they know they may have to stick Vlad there.

LAA has Pujols clogging DH. Cleveland has Encarnacion and Alonso. MN is effectively out of the race though they'd be worth circling back with in the off-season after LoMo's short-term deal expires.

He has to go to the AL and the AL is effectively decided at this point. We know the 5 playoff teams - Houston, NYY, Cleveland, Boston and Seattle. The only intrigue left is some jockying for the division in the East. So I don't see any major pushes until the off-season to add a DH type at this point unless you can get a 3-team deal put together with Boston.

The ship has probably sailed.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's what happens when you enter the season indifferent about winning.

The Pirates were an obvious collapse candidate. They not only didn't attempt to improve, they announced loudly that they didn't really care if they got worse.

So naturally, they did...

You are not wrong. The fast start gave me false hope.

The fact that we are keeping Sean Rodriguez is inexcusable.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

You are not wrong. The fast start gave me false hope.

The fact that we are keeping Sean Rodriguez is inexcusable.

He's such a gamer though. Who else would you want to have on your team in a bench clearing "brawl" over nothing? He'll be sure to get heated at something and puff his chest.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

He's such a gamer though. Who else would you want to have on your team in a bench clearing "brawl" over nothing? He'll be sure to get heated at something and puff his chest.

He is batting .1000 against Gatorade containers as well.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

He's such a gamer though. Who else would you want to have on your team in a bench clearing "brawl" over nothing? He'll be sure to get heated at something and puff his chest.

The spiritual successor to Jonny Gomes.

**** that guy right in his face. Chris Johnson can also eat a big ol bag o' dicks.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

From people that knew him, I've heard Houck is one of the biggest dumbasses on Earth. No thanks here, too.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Bernie lays out the despair fairly bluntly...love the phrase mathenaging.

https://www.101sports.com/2018/06/15...p-mathenaging/

This is so glaringly obvious watching the games.

6. Adjust to a more aggressive hitting approach, or find a new batting coach. I’ve already talked and written about the Cardinals’ foolishly bad habit of watching too many called strikes go by overall — and especially on hitters’ favorites counts such as 2-0 and 3-1. Here’s more: the Cardinals have taken 55.3% of all pitches thrown to them this season, the fourth highest “take” rate in MLB, and second highest in the NL. And to put additional perspective on this, the 55.3% take rate would be the highest by a Cardinals team since 1993. Would someone like to explain the benefit of taking so many pitches? If it’s to get control of the count, fine — unless, of course, that follows with something stupid like watching a called strike on 2-0, or 2-1, or 3-1. And if you’re guessing that this take rate is a strategy to draw more walks and get more runners on base, well, it’s failing, The Cardinals’ current walk rate of 8.4% ranks 18th in the majors. That 8.4% walk rate would be the Cards’ seventh-lowest since 1996, a span of 23 seasons. Swing. The. Damn. Bat.

This of all things is probably the easiest to fix. Swing. The.Damn. Bat.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Bernie lays out the despair fairly bluntly...love the phrase mathenaging.

https://www.101sports.com/2018/06/15...p-mathenaging/

A couple of quotes:

If you want to blame all of this on Matheny, well I ain’t gonna allow it to happen because Matheny didn’t put together this roster, and he didn’t negotiate contracts for Dexter Fowler, Brett Cecil, Luke Gregerson, Wong, etc. I’ll be writing on this subject soon, and the Matheny congregation will suspect me of being up to some evil trick … you know: the really insidious, despicable tactics like using statistical and factual information to back up an opinion, and for committing the unforgivable sin of proudly using an independent mind.)

If you want batting coach John Mabry fired, dream on people but it ain’t gonna happen unless Matheny is fired at the same time, because of their special BFF bond that cannot be broken … if you want the Cardinals to designate Fowler for assignment and eat the final 3.5 years of salary owed on a $82.5 million contract, it ain’t gonna happen … if you want Fowler traded, without the Cardinals agreeing to pay for most of what’s left on his contract — that ain’t gonna happen because no MLB general manager in the U.S. or Canada is certifiably insane … if you want Machado, it ain’t gonna happen, unless ownership and Mozeliak change the entire way the franchise does bidness with baseball trades … if you want Josh Donaldson — he’s an obsession in Our Town — it ain’t gonna happen unless the Cardinals are determined to give up a couple of good prospects and take the risk of having another player go to the DL; Donaldson has had two different injuries this season (shoulder, calf) and has played only 36 games for Toronto.