Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0?

[O.city]

Well, they brought in a shit load of new starters on D, so I think the front office agrees?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, they brought in a shit load of new starters on D, so I think the front office agrees?

I'm more worried about Sutton more than the players.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by petegz28

I'm more worried about Sutton more than the players.

Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by O.city

Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Sutton's defenses over the last few years have taken on a pattern of playing soft. I am just a bit concerned that in all the defensive issues, the coach of the defense is not being looked at as part of the problem.

We cannot continue playing a 3 man rush, playing CB's 10 yards off on 3rd and medium, consistently giving up 3rd and long and then claiming victory because after a 7 minute drive we held the other team to a FG.

That hasn't really worked well.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Sutton's defenses over the last few years have taken on a pattern of playing soft. I am just a bit concerned that in all the defensive issues, the coach of the defense is not being looked at as part of the problem.

We cannot continue playing a 3 man rush, playing CB's 10 yards off on 3rd and medium, consistently giving up 3rd and long and then claiming victory because after a 7 minute drive we held the other team to a FG.

That hasn't really worked well.

If we go by the statistics, they've had really good defenses. If we go by Pete's feelings, maybe not.


The 14,15,16 defenses were pretty damn good.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by O.city

If we go by the statistics, they've had really good defenses. If we go by Pete's feelings, maybe not.


The 14,15,16 defenses were pretty damn good.

Why does the D get to enjoy regular season metrics to get the label of 'pretty damn good,' but the O gets the playoff metrics of a 'complete waste of time and talent?'

[KCUnited]

This is starting to look similar to a TrINT like season.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Why does the D get to enjoy regular season metrics to get the label of 'pretty damn good,' but the O gets the playoff metrics of a 'complete waste of time and talent?'

I'm not sure I've ever brought that up or addressed it that way?

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Why does the D get to enjoy regular season metrics to get the label of 'pretty damn good,' but the O gets the playoff metrics of a 'complete waste of time and talent?'

All defenses eventually suck ass in the playoffs.

Look at the Super Bowl. Look at the Vikings. The mighty Jaguars gave up a ****ton of points to the Steelers.

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Sutton's defenses over the last few years have taken on a pattern of playing soft. I am just a bit concerned that in all the defensive issues, the coach of the defense is not being looked at as part of the problem.

We cannot continue playing a 3 man rush, playing CB's 10 yards off on 3rd and medium, consistently giving up 3rd and long and then claiming victory because after a 7 minute drive we held the other team to a FG.

That hasn't really worked well.

A big difference is we’re going to have a qb who keeps his eyes down field, and isn’t afraid to pull the trigger on a big play instead of running into a sack. Mahomes is surely gonna crush our hopes and dreams sometimes with a interception, and likely at a bad time in the playoffs. But he’s capable of the other side of that coin too. He will likely win us some games with his arm, and playmaking abilities. I’m both playoff games you mentioned, we sputtered badly in the second half on offense. In either of those games a single score would have won it for us. But our old qb couldn’t handle that pressure with the game on the line. When we got into those situations be it regular season or post season, I never had faith that Alex would lead us back once the lead was gone. You could just see it in his mannerisms. Impossible to say if Mahomes can overcome what Alex couldn’t, but at this point we only have hope that he can.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Both of those blown leads included a huge lead attained by aggressive offense in the first half, followed by the same offense going in a shell and not scoring points.

I blame Reid and Smith for both playoff losses more than I'd blame the defense - factor in Andrew Luck dribbling a fumble into the end zone on one game and Revis batting Mariota's duck back to him for a touchdown for the weirdness factor...THEN you've got stuff like DJs murder of Mariota called 'down by forward progress" (!) And somehow, that Colts defender was able to possess Alex Smith's 4th qtr fumble in the Colts playoff loss while literally laying on the ground, one butt check (along with half his body) being completely out of bounds...let's not even mention the (uncalled) mugging of DBowe on the final drive vs the Colts...

There's a LOT more to it than 'defense blew the leads in the playoffs'.

If Reid OR the refs call a better game, in EITHER game, we win

In a time where the rules are changed to favor the offense and reworded as to be able to be interpreted as opposed to absolute and enforceable, Reid/Smith and the refs deserve as much or more of the blame than the defense in BOTH of those losses.

Smith cost us the Pittsburgh game the year before last by missing wide open receivers in a game where points were at a premium.

We got beat at NE because Justin Houston was out so Sutton had to sit back and run Zone vs Brady, and Brady just picked us apart. And of course Reid/Smith couldn't keep up, points-wise.

It's a simpleton who goes "that defense sucks. Is this the Dick Vermeil era?"

Come on.

Bob Sutton is WAY better than Greg Robinson.

[Best22]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Both of those blown leads included a huge lead attained by aggressive offense in the first half, followed by the same offense going in a shell and not scoring points.

I blame Reid and Smith for both playoff losses more than I'd blame the defense - factor in Andrew Luck dribbling a fumble into the end zone on one game and Revis batting Mariota's duck back to him for a touchdown for the weirdness factor...THEN you've got stuff like DJs murder of Mariota called 'down by forward progress" (!) And somehow, that Colts defender was able to possess Alex Smith's 4th qtr fumble in the Colts playoff loss while literally laying on the ground, one butt check (along with half his body) being completely out of bounds...let's not even mention the (uncalled) mugging of DBowe on the final drive vs the Colts...

There's a LOT more to it than 'defense blew the leads in the playoffs'.

If Reid OR the refs call a better game, in EITHER game, we win

In a time where the rules are changed to favor the offense and reworded as to be able to be interpreted as opposed to absolute and enforceable, Reid/Smith and the refs deserve as much or more of the blame than the defense in BOTH of those losses.

Smith cost us the Pittsburgh game the year before last by missing wide open receivers in a game where points were at a premium.

We got beat at NE because Justin Houston was out so Sutton had to sit back and run Zone vs Brady, and Brady just picked us apart. And of course Reid/Smith couldn't keep up, points-wise.

It's a simpleton who goes "that defense sucks. Is this the Dick Vermeil era?"

Come on.

Bob Sutton is WAY better than Greg Robinson.

Anytime you score 44 points and lose, the defense gets 70% of the blame, atleast. The reason no one felt safe with a 38-10 lead is because the defense was trash. Remember the Oakland game? 35-10 lead glcut to 35-31. Alex Smith and Jamaal Charles baled is out in that one

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Best22

Anytime you score 44 points and lose, the defense gets 70% of the blame, atleast. The reason no one felt safe with a 38-10 lead is because the defense was trash. Remember the Oakland game? 35-10 lead glcut to 35-31. Alex Smith and Jamaal Charles baled is out in that one

What Oakland game? Where at and what year? There's two a year.

I remember the @Oakland game last year where the refs kept throwing flags for defensive penalties for untimed down after untimed down until the Oakland offense scored.

The rules favor the offense.

****, the Steelers scored 40-some in a playoff game, LOST, then fired their OFFENSIVE coordinator.

Should have scored 50.

It's 2018 in the NFL, the defenders aren't allowed to touch the QB or the WRs.

Score more points.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by O.city

Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

Because the entire thing is built on the team riding their luck with turnovers, and that doesn't work consistently against great teams.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Eleazar

Because the entire thing is built on the team riding their luck with turnovers, and that doesn't work consistently against great teams.

Actually, it kind of does. Against great teams, unless you have a great defense, it's tough to consistently get stops without turnovers.