Building a defense in the modern NFL

[Chris Meck]

So, I've been thinking about this all season, and especially after watching Monday's game have some thoughts.

Something Reid said a few weeks back has been on my mind-he said that he thought the future of pass rushing was on the inside, as it's a shorter distance to the QB. Teams are getting the ball out quicker and quicker these days to neutralize that outside pass rush. See Aaron Donald.

1. Corners aren't allowed to play physical anymore. So top end speed, discipline and ball skills are really the only things that matter.

2. Outside pass rushers and CB's are generally the highest paid defenders at the current moment.

3. Interior linemen are, with a few exceptions, undervalued.

4. Safeties have become undervalued, as teams refuse to spend the top dollar on them (other than us with Berry) and instead put that money into CB's. We're speaking relatively here.

I think going forward, I would concentrate on defensive linemen as pass rushers first in the draft and free agency. I would tag Ford next year and let Houston walk after '19. I would sink dollars and high picks into the interior 3 move away from overpaying edge rushers.

I would absolutely sign quality veteran safeties, as to me, they're MORE valuable than corners if this is how the NFL wants to play.

I think every corner gets torched anymore and so this position is no longer worth the premium contract. There's not a lot of difference anymore between a mediocre corner and a great one under these rules. But a smart safety that diagnoses the play and is in the right place is golden. More so than before.

just my thoughts.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by The Pest

Run a 4-3. You need to be able to pressure consistently with your four down linemen. You'll also need LBs that can cover well and stop the run. Man corners that have speed and ball skills. Rangy safeties that can take away the TE and also play the deep zones.

/thread

The modern NFL defense should be a 43

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by The Pest

Exactly why you run a 4-3. You have defensive linemen that can get pressure from the base defense, nickel or dime.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

[stevieray]

When Chris Jones collapses the pocket....good things happen.

Bailey having a good year helps.

Interior DL are crucial.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Yeah, I'm just saying we do that a lot already.

With the wrong personnel is the point. We're trotting out 300+lb Dlinemen and asking them to rush the passer.

That's not as efficient as a true 43 D-line that can play lighter, smaller and quicker. Along with LB's who are also lighter, smaller and quicker.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by stevieray

When Chris Jones collapses the pocket....good things happen.

Bailey having a good year helps.

Interior DL are crucial.

They're having exceptionally good seasons. They also get a lot of opportunities.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

/thread

The modern NFL defense should be a 43

well, I think you're missing the point. What difference is it, really, especially when a team like the Chiefs has 275lbs. OLB'ers? Call them a DE, call them OLB'ers, what difference does it make? More than a DE then, even in a 4-3, I say the DT should be the new point of emphasis. And even they will not look like the old hulking 300+ pounders but more like the Donald prototype. Reid's point was that the interior linemen collapsing the pocket from the INSIDE is faster and more disruptive than pressure from the edge.

My point is I think that Interior linemen and safeties are more important in this new era, with the new rules (or new emphasis on the rules) than the previous conventional wisdom that CB's and edge rushers are the premium defensive positions.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

They're having exceptionally good seasons. They also get a lot of opportunities.

Jone's hands are getting better...isn't next year, year three?

[Bewbies]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

well, I think you're missing the point. What difference is it, really, especially when a team like the Chiefs has 275lbs. OLB'ers? Call them a DE, call them OLB'ers, what difference does it make? More than a DE then, even in a 4-3, I say the DT should be the new point of emphasis. And even they will not look like the old hulking 300+ pounders but more like the Donald prototype. Reid's point was that the interior linemen collapsing the pocket from the INSIDE is faster and more disruptive than pressure from the edge.

My point is I think that Interior linemen and safeties are more important in this new era, with the new rules (or new emphasis on the rules) than the previous conventional wisdom that CB's and edge rushers are the premium defensive positions.

MLB will be super important as well.

Interesting how rules will change defense from outside in to the opposite.

[Bewbies]

Take this a step further. You should be investing more in offense than defense as well.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

yeah, I think so.

I think a guy like Tremon Smith is what you'd be looking to draft for CB's. Fast, fast, fast. And NEVER pay a big second contract to those guys. Just draft and replace. They're not allowed to be great so why pay them like they are?

And spend the money on elite safeties. Earl Thomas, Landon Collins, guys like that.

And edge rushers are nice, keep 'em when you got 'em, but invest more heavily going forward in your d-line, interior guys. You need another Chris Jones.

This all day.

I think the modern defense is more about turnovers and shutting down an offense.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

With the wrong personnel is the point. We're trotting out 300+lb Dlinemen and asking them to rush the passer.

That's not as efficient as a true 43 D-line that can play lighter, smaller and quicker. Along with LB's who are also lighter, smaller and quicker.

Fair enough. It's a side discussion really, to what my main point is-which is that for decades, the NFL has placed a premium on pressure from the outside-i.e. edge rushers, OLB'ers, DE's, and shut-down corner play. Both are now handicapped by a)quicker developing passing games and b)no contact by DB's at all or it's a flag. Aaron Donald, for example, doesn't rush against the LT much, he's usually rushing against a guard. He gets inside that guard and eats your QB alive. That's what I'm talking about. I don't want Jones outside rushing out around the tackle-I want him on a guard, inside, on a bee-line to the QB.

So perhaps, like the Royals which found undervalued skills and rode it to a championship, the Chiefs should build a defense designed to collapse the pocket from the inside out and limit big plays downfield with superior safety play. SAFETY in the actual use of the word as well as the term for the position.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm still surprised that with the Jim Johnson defense back in style, Reid didn't pursue a Jim Johnson like candidate. Then again, maybe we got saved... Minnesotas defense hasnt looked great this year.

Here's a more intriguing idea... Why not poach from Reid's coaching tree? Nagys got a scheme we might like. Fangio is basically running a 3-4 under (not sure how many are doing that). Goes without saying, Khalil mack really makes that D go. The bears have one of the more intriguing defense.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

well, I think you're missing the point. What difference is it, really, especially when a team like the Chiefs has 275lbs.

Those guy are running around in coverage half the time. Dee Ford and Justin Houston aren't rushing the passer 100% of a QB's drop backs.

That's the difference. How many more sacks would those guys have if they weren't running around in coverage?

How much more effective would our D-line be if you slid Houston and Ford at DE, and moved Jones and Bailey into the middle 100% of a QB's drop backs?

How much easier could we cover backs swinging out of the backfield and screens etc if our OLB's flew around like DoD?

THAT'S the difference.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Bewbies

MLB will be super important as well.

Interesting how rules will change defense from outside in to the opposite.

that actually is a much more concise way of saying what I'm trying to say.

Invest much more heavily on interior linemen and safeties (INSIDE) as opposed to conventional wisdom of investing in edge rushers and CB's (OUTSIDE).

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Both are now handicapped by a)quicker developing passing games and b)no contact by DB's at all or it's a flag. Aaron Donald, for example, doesn't rush against the LT much, he's usually rushing against a guard. He gets inside that guard and eats your QB alive. That's what I'm talking about. I don't want Jones outside rushing out around the tackle-I want him on a guard, inside, on a bee-line to the QB.

Correct.

Which further supports the argument that the 43 is the optimum scheme for today's NFL.