Game of Thrones Seasons 7-8

[keg in kc]

About to hit the 5000 post mark on the old thread, the first season 7 trailer today seems like the right time to start the final Game of Thones thread.

I'm going back to the original rules pre-2015. I don't think we need supervision or bannings. Just don't be a dick. Post anything you find online that hasn't aired yet inside of spoiler tags. That's pretty much it. I think we can all handle that...





For future us, 2015 thread is here: Link

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Setsuna

Indeed. Some of are getting way too bent out of shape assigning realism to a TV show about dragons and zombies.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Or how, after the wights broke through the flaming trench, the castle defenders had to start screaming "man the walls! thhey broek through! man the walls!".
Wait, you didn't already have the walls manned? It came as a surprise to you that you needed to man the castle walls?

TRYING to give them the benefit of the doubt on that one -- I could blindly assume that, because it is winter in the North, and presumably cold as hell, men would be indoors and/or huddled around fires in the courtyard etc., and swapping shifts with the watchmen on the walls, and when the call came in to man the walls, it meant EVERYBODY to the walls NOW.

Among the long list of stupidities, that one is pretty low I would say as I can at least rationalize a pretty reasonable explanation there (even though we didn't see men huddled around fires etc.).

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

It's not like there is a history of planning to fight an army of the dead.

The NK could have just sat back and starved them out as well.

Yes, which is the correct decision if you're stupid conservative. The NK had such overwhelming troops it doesn't matter. No chance of losing, and no matter how many you lose, you then add their army to your own and end up replacing a vast number of your losses, so who cares.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by crashcourse

waiting for the hound to get it

his thing for arya overrides his knack for selfpreservation/he turns into a wimpo until she's in trouble then its full bore to the rescue

he has to die trying to save her in some way int the future

He's terrified of fire due to childhood trauma. It's a full blown phobia. I wouldn't paint him as a wimp under any other circumstance. He charged in to save Sansa back in season 1, and was more than willing ot fight a bunch of guys for "every ****ing chicken".

But fire....fire is a problem.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Indeed. Some of are getting way too bent out of shape assigning realism to a TV show about dragons and zombies.

It's not even really about that, at least for me.

It's more about when writers establish ground rules and foundations and beat you over the head with them and totally go against them for no reason.

It drives me nuts...

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Indeed. Some of are getting way too bent out of shape assigning realism to a TV show about dragons and zombies.

I walked into a convo at work today about the episode with a couple of guys that were nitpicking every small mundane thing. People just can't be entertained anymore, everything has to suck.

[sd4chiefs]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Well can you provide any historical instances of castles being overrun by zombies?

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Swanman

Also, Bran gave Arya the dagger in the exact same spot where she killed the Night King. There is a good chance that during the battle Bran was pulling a Bill & Ted and influencing things in the past to help win the battle. When he gave the dagger to Arya, he had a bit of a WTF look on his face because he may have been speaking to himself from the future telling himself to give her the dagger.

About the Dothraki, they charge because that's what they do. They are not meant to be a fortified unit like the Unsullied. However, they absolutely should not have been used as the front line. If anything, they should have flanked the dead after the initial clash with the Unsullied.

Agreed under normal circumstances, BUT, as someone else posted previously, what cavalry normally do is just inapplicable to the dead. You can't break their morale, and breaking/disorganizing their defensive line is utterly useless. They don't really even have a defensive line.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

It's not like there is a history of planning to fight an army of the dead.

The NK could have just sat back and starved them out as well.

Thank you, wise bald man. Thank you for explaining siege tactics to me.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Thank you, wise bald man. Thank you for explaining siege tactics to me.

Anytime.

[GloucesterChief]

You keep the cavalry in reserve and let the dead assault the walls. Then send the cavalry around back and create a envelopement and crush. Then it is all over except for the slaughter.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by Fish

That's not necessary though, and the plot could make just as much sense approaching it differently and using the castle as the defensive bulwark it's intended to be. Put the soldiers all on the castle walls. Sit a dragon at each corner. Their plan was to lure the NK into the weirwood area. Sending riders away from the castle doesn't help that. It's just a waste that lowers your numbers and provides more dead bodies for the zombie necromancer.

In Episode 2, it was established that the NK would never get close to WF if the Dragons are stationed there. The NK, if he wanted to, could outlast everyone in Winterfell with that plan. He could sit back, light up a few smokes, and come in when everything was turned to Ash - which made the priority exposing the NK as soon as possible.

They actually did expose him, Jon and Dany unseated him from his Dragon and knocked him to the ground. Dany even spitroasted him and Jon tried to 1v1 him, it didn't work, the NK was immune to dragonfire (no one knew that coming in), and he didn't allow Jon to fight him, he was never going to risk himself to that - he only acted when he felt invulnerable.

I think where I struggle with all the criticism is that even with a team of Miltiades, George Washington, and Robb Stark (a great battle commander), there would have never been any way to "win" this fight. The NK could have starved out Winterfell for days/weeks/years if he wanted, he was only going to show up when he thought all was won and when he was in control. To purposefully expose themselves to the NK was always going to be their best chance to win.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief

You keep the cavalry in reserve and let the dead assault the walls. Then send the cavalry around back and create a envelopement and crush. Then it is all over except for the slaughter.

That would certainly be better than what they did with them, which was absurd.

Of course, if you have enough troops, you encircle the defenders (here Winterfell) and have separate troops to keep the mobile army away from your besiegers.

There were ALOT of Dothraki, but my sense is that the army of the dead vastly outnumbered them. VASTLY. And if that's the case, you aren't enveloping much of anything unless ALL the dead just pile up 20 deep or whatever against the castle walls. The individual wights were stupid, but they were clearly controlled, on an individual level at need, by the NK. They therefore aren't going to do that.

But still, hit and run, flanking -- ANYTHING -- is better than what they actually did.

And the Dothraki damn well should've known that.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Anytime.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

That would certainly be better than what they did with them, which was absurd.

Of course, if you have enough troops, you encircle the defenders (here Winterfell) and have separate troops to keep the mobile army away from your besiegers.

There were ALOT of Dothraki, but my sense is that the army of the dead vastly outnumbered them. VASTLY. And if that's the case, you aren't enveloping much of anything unless ALL the dead just pile up 20 deep or whatever against the castle walls. The individual wights were stupid, but they were clearly controlled, on an individual level at need, by the NK. They therefore aren't going to do that.

But still, hit and run, flanking -- ANYTHING -- is better than what they actually did.

And the Dothraki damn well should've known that.

The Dothraki's whole experience in battle is overwhelming the enemy and riding right at them. You would expect them to be different in this battle? That's like watching the Unsullied and then wondering why they didn't split up and fight one on one with the undead army.